RSX Piston Meltdown

[RSX302]

I was going to offer to help, but then I remembered it was a ford engine.. lol

Hope you get it all sorted out easily.. I'm getting ready to pull Penny's engine for a new one two (bigger one)

THAT'S COLD! lol

It'll work itself out and I'll be tearing up the streets and chasing you down in no time.even with a Ford!

Bigger engine? LS with Cubes?

[mjoc1]

ZL1 with twin turbo's

Mike

[RSX302]

Pictures?

Do you run a EGT gauge?

[alnoe]

Ron

What were the ring gaps set at?

It looks like the rings may have butted and this caused the top of the piston to lift.

Do the spark plugs have any "pepper" on them?


If the engine did not detonate it could be the ring gaps were tight.

A "lot" of SBF factory piston engines (specifically from 5.0L engines that had factory forged pistons) have lasted a long time with 10-15# of boost, at least until the blocks split.

PM me if you want and I can give you some other things to possibly look for, or shoot me an email at [email protected].


Al

[shmoov69]

Ron

What were the ring gaps set at?

It looks like the rings may have butted and this caused the top of the piston to lift.



Al

That was exactly my first thought from the pic, tightly gapped hypers, but as long as the thing has ran before made me question my "first thought".

[RSX302]

Ron

What were the ring gaps set at?

It looks like the rings may have butted and this caused the top of the piston to lift.

Do the spark plugs have any "pepper" on them?


If the engine did not detonate it could be the ring gaps were tight.

A "lot" of SBF factory piston engines (specifically from 5.0L engines that had factory forged pistons) have lasted a long time with 10-15# of boost, at least until the blocks split.

PM me if you want and I can give you some other things to possibly look for, or shoot me an email at [email protected].


Al

Rings gapped at .022"

Pistons I'm running are CP 4017R forgings.

Couple spark plugs where melted down a little. All indicators lean to detonation.

Thanks for the input...

[RSX302]

Pulled the motor down Sunday and the cylinders and rod bearings all looks like new. I will order a new set of pistons, pins, rings and hone the cylinders for the new rings.

I'm thinking I will set up the new pistons with around 8.8 to 9.0:1 to help lower egt's a little. I think that should keep me safe with 91 oct fuel at 25 deg timing with around 1400 deg egt's.

Not sure what 0.5:1 compression reduction with get, but had I not increased my timing to 27 degrees, we may not have had this discussion. Maybe melted turbo instead?

I've read that turbo's are good to around 1500 and some race applications have seen 1600.

[John Wright]

Maybe pulling the compression by that 1/2 point may keep the pistons in there....what do you think about ceramic coatings for the piston tops?

[shmoov69]

You will gain alot more power with more boost than with more compression! Lol! Heck, drop it to 8:1!!!
Sound good, let us know when it is going again!


BTW- I've always LOVED your car!

[RSX302]

Maybe pulling the compression by that 1/2 point may keep the pistons in there....what do you think about ceramic coatings for the piston tops?

I had the ceramic coating and will be using it again. Maybe another reason to reduce compression a little more?

[RSX302]

You will gain alot more power with more boost than with more compression! Lol! Heck, drop it to 8:1!!!
Sound good, let us know when it is going again!


BTW- I've always LOVED your car!

I'm having second thoughts...I may run closer to 8.5. I wanted to run as much compression as possible to give good drivability on the street. 9.5 was very nice running. I hope 8.5 won't be too low. After all, I am cubically challanged. LOL

I can run the 10 psig spring at Willow Springs and 15 psig spring on the street and the drag strip.

[MonzaRacer]

here is another thing to think of http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alc...arts-list.html.
Think of it all you need is a gallon of washer fluid (good old blue bubble gum stuff, dont think you need rain X in engine)and your golden.
Had a buddy with a 331 Ford and he put on some idiotic looking turbo setup (idiotic in the oil lines looked like they where duct taped and welds that could be done better by a 2 yr old) but his 11.7 to 1 engine needed help IMMEDIATELY even with 110 Cam 2/Turbo Blue race gas.
So I sent him this link, he ordered all the parts and plenty of different spray nozzles and after about 20 minutes of pissing his neighbors off he hit on which worked best.
Oh and he had to work out when the water injection needed to come on.
And all of it for way less than other he found.
Good luck.
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

[RSX302]

here is another thing to think of http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alc...arts-list.html.
Think of it all you need is a gallon of washer fluid (good old blue bubble gum stuff, dont think you need rain X in engine)and your golden.
Had a buddy with a 331 Ford and he put on some idiotic looking turbo setup (idiotic in the oil lines looked like they where duct taped and welds that could be done better by a 2 yr old) but his 11.7 to 1 engine needed help IMMEDIATELY even with 110 Cam 2/Turbo Blue race gas.
So I sent him this link, he ordered all the parts and plenty of different spray nozzles and after about 20 minutes of pissing his neighbors off he hit on which worked best.
Oh and he had to work out when the water injection needed to come on.
And all of it for way less than other he found.
Good luck.
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

Yea..I've heard about water injection, but haven't worked with it.

I'm assuming water injection cools everything down to prevent melt down? reduction in HP too?

I guess even if one used high octane fuel, melt down can/will still happen. Just makes it harder for pre-ignition to occur right before the BIG melt.

[gmorris]

Water injection is great for additional safety factor but you do not want your tune to rely on it in case of system failure. Most guys will tune to the ragged edge without water/meth and then add it to give peace of mind. That way if it ever fails you won't garantee yourself a cooked engine.

[camcojb]

Yea..I've heard about water injection, but haven't worked with it.

I'm assuming water injection cools everything down to prevent melt down? reduction in HP too?

I guess even if one used high octane fuel, melt down can/will still happen. Just makes it harder for pre-ignition to occur right before the BIG melt.

no reduction in hp, actually an increase. Well, what I mean is the water or water/alky injection allows you to run more boost and timing than you could otherwise, hence the increased power. Straight water is the best heat absorber, but if you need additional fueling the popular mix is water with alcohol. This gives an octane boost and additional fuel (alky) to burn, also lowering your injector duty cycle with an efi setup.

It can be used simply as additional protection as above, using the same tune/boost as would be safe without it. Or it can be used to allow more boost and/or timing, getting power levels closer to running higher octane race gas without needing race gas. Many systems have a lot of built-in safety factors, but obviously damage could occur if the unit failed (rare but possible if properly installed).

Jody

[RSX302]

no reduction in hp, actually an increase. Well, what I mean is the water or water/alky injection allows you to run more boost and timing than you could otherwise, hence the increased power. Straight water is the best heat absorber, but if you need additional fueling the popular mix is water with alcohol. This gives an octane boost and additional fuel (alky) to burn, also lowering your injector duty cycle with an efi setup.

It can be used simply as additional protection as above, using the same tune/boost as would be safe without it. Or it can be used to allow more boost and/or timing, getting power levels closer to running higher octane race gas without needing race gas. Many systems have a lot of built-in safety factors, but obviously damage could occur if the unit failed (rare but possible if properly installed).

Jody

Very good...I see the purpose of water injection but since the damage is done, I will set up the motor so it will run all day on 91 oct with the proper egt's. I will give up a little hp but it should still be more then fun with 700+hp. My engine bay is very cramped as it is. There's something to be said about just having an engine.

[twinturbo69]

Ron,
How is the rebuild coming along? Glad to hear your block was okay!
My motor is almost complete: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=62409
We swapped out the exhaust in favor of a cast iron manifold and have been porting it and waiting to get it coated with the extreme temp black coating.

Your story makes me want to run 100 octane for additional detonation insurance even though I have a 10 psi tune for 91 octane. I have no idea what my EGTs are going to be at, but they can't be any worse than they were with my old manifolds!

I wanted to hit you up regarding wheels for my car as I want a 335mm wide rear tire and am planning on the DSE minitub but had a few Q's.

Thanks,
Blake

[RSX302]

Ron,
How is the rebuild coming along? Glad to hear your block was okay!
My motor is almost complete: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=62409
We swapped out the exhaust in favor of a cast iron manifold and have been porting it and waiting to get it coated with the extreme temp black coating.

Your story makes me want to run 100 octane for additional detonation insurance even though I have a 10 psi tune for 91 octane. I have no idea what my EGTs are going to be at, but they can't be any worse than they were with my old manifolds!

I wanted to hit you up regarding wheels for my car as I want a 335mm wide rear tire and am planning on the DSE minitub but had a few Q's.

Thanks,
Blake

Finally got the block back. All machined up and ready to go. Got the pistons (purdy) CP's Dished (15cc) with full coatings.

Next on the list is figuring out what rings I want to go with. Thinking steel Hellfire's at this point.

Hoping by next month we will be all back together.


Your 8:1 should be no problem with 10-12psi intercooled boost on 91oct and your EGT's should be fine. I just put to much timing in (27) with 9:1 and 91oct. Shoulda stayed with 24deg.(25 max) I wouldn't be rebuilding. max power is with 24Deg. Such as life..live and learn.

[Wicked]

I would monitor your intake and coolant temps on the long runs. Intercooler may be getting heat soaked.
What about the other cylinders? No damage? Are you monitoring individual EGTs?

I would also see if your tune has a timing modifier to pull timing when the intake and coolant temps go up.

I am a big supporter of more boost and less timing