Pontiac 400 Stroker

[a73formula]

Skip knows his stuff, he's got great combos. Never worked with the guys out in virginia but I know sd performance does good work. Getting a crate engine for what you want is the way i would go. Way better bang for your buck and you know what your getting, no playing around trying to match parts.

[Roadrage David]

i was just looking on sd performance and with their edelbrock cnc heads, a torker intake with matched ports, 4.5" crank, and 400 block bored to 4.195 ran on 92 octone and had 700hp with 650ft/lbs.

A 4.5 inch stroke in a 400 blok with that amound of hp and torque is prone to falier!!! with what your planning to do!!!! 4,25 stroke is max! on a factory block if you whant durabitely .Again bearing speed wil be a issiuew it wil eat lots of them.
also CNC machined heads are overated, because a CNC mashine,s program is ONLY as GOOD as the porter that installed it!!!!!!.

the best head ported in Pontiac land out there Is ""Dave Wilcox"" Driver of the fastest pontiac in the world ""Dirty birt"" aka Drunken injun. he did the head work on the Tiger heads and with CVMS build the engine .
CVMS dont belive in CNC port jobs and have tested and upgraded some heads for people that came from SD performance AND KRE to a higher level.
they got and get more out of heads then that SD claimed was posible. every head set they port is CUSTOM tailer to what the custumour whants!! same gose for there engines. they dont like the ""crate engine CNC head"", one size fits al aproch!!
CVMS uses Wilcox ECSCLUSIF on al there head work.
some KRE alu heads claimend to have flowm 310cfm where actualy 285 afther testing on a difrend flow bensh . you have a pm!!.

[a73formula]

I don't know enough about your rngine builder to say anything about him but I've been diong pontiacs for a while now and sd performance know their stuff as does kauffman and butler. As for "crate engines", I was refering to the fact that each company has their own cobinations that are tried and true that you can buy in a ready to go package. I also don't think that any good engine builder cnc ports heads and then just leaves them alone, they all go back through and make adjustments where needed. Everyone has their own opinions a bout what stock peices can take. I know someone personally that built his own stroked 455 that makes 700hp at the crank and runs a 150 shot on top of that on pump gas with absolutely no problems. hes been running it for 2 yrs now on the street and racing it and all he did to the block was fill it to the freeze plugs and use the mega brace. Go check performance years in the engine section and you will get first had opinions from guys that actually build their own stuff and have great reputations in the pontiac world and can set you straight. Oh ya, Spott's performance is another good pontiac guy.

[a73formula]

Disregard the part about not knowing who cvms is. Wasn't clicking for some reason. They do some great stuff but I don't think any better than any of the others mentioned by me or the other people on here.

[Skip Fix]

Teh problem with building too much HP is just getting it to the ground especially on the street. My 455 even with sticky Nitto DOTS can't hook up.

[rohrt]

Sounds like your going more pro-street then pro-touring.

This is out of my area but Skip Fix hit on the head. My brother 600hp GTO just spins like hell even with the 9" slicks and is somewhere in the low 12 sec area. A FB will be a lot lighter then my brother 68 GTO convertible but I would think you would need full on tubbed out car and a transbreak to get into the 9s.

[transamguy79]

is this the only edelbrock victor they have for the 400? do they have one that has a little more to it?

[67bird]

As far as builders I would say do some research and find one with a god rep, that knows Pontiac engines. To make 700 Hp, just using basic assumptions, you will need a head that flows at least 320 CFM with whatever bore size you are running. From a reliability standpoint, I would choose an All Pontiac block (an IA2). For what you would pay for great block prep and girdles and what not you will be money ahead. If it was me I would suggest the following for 700 HP. I would skip 461 and go right to 505. This would be a 4.350 bore with a 4.25 stroke. With an IA block you would have plenty of room to grow if you wanted. Also, with all the new heads on the market, if you look around you can find a wideport E-head set used for a song. I would find a set from a porter with a good rep (SD, BES, Buttler, Hand, Spotts, Cirelli, CFM, Etc.) Most of these flow 350 to 370CFM. I would asks for flow sheets. Look for a set that has the best velocity and mid-lift numbers. As far as rotating assembly the forged 505 stuff is comparable to the 461 stuff.

[67bird]

Cont. from above. Also with a 505 and wideports, you can use a victor intake. Butler has shaved the tops to fit them in second gens, so you could do the same for a first gen. Also, you can run a Spotts 400 hood. This will let you run a victor with a 1" spacer with a dominator. I think you could do a 700 HP 505 CI motor and do pump gas. Kasse made over 850 with his on pump gas. As far as cams I would go 4/7 swap even though it wooulnd't be needed. As far as rest of valvetrain you can now go all Jesel if you want. They just introduced a sprotsman type solid that is price competitive. Also, Isky red zones are now popular as well. As far as headers I would run at least a Doug's 1-7/8" or you can talk to Mark at Mad Dog. He says hi 2" for first gen won't fit a first gen with an IA2 block but he may be able to make some changes to get them to fit.

[sporter]

If you want the most hp for the money then you should probably look into adding a turbo to your car. Several folks running cheap turbos into the low 10's and high 9's. A supercharger can get you there too but it will cost more $$. Here's a few links to enjoy:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23752

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=565615

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=585

http://hardcorepontiacs.com/forum/2107-new-toy.html

[a73formula]

Yes thats the car craft article i mentioned earlier. Check out the torque numbers for such a docile motor.

[transamguy79]

is the victor the best choice of intake or is there one that would be a higher performance one?

[JLM]

is the victor the best choice of intake or is there one that would be a higher performance one?

That depends on how and where you're going to want to make power.

The victor manifold is going to move your power up in the RPM range. This means running higher rpms, which in a poncho also means you'll definitely want to go with an aftermarket block.

The factory mills don't like high rpm. They flex too much, and also bearing and piston speeds get real high.

I don't want to sound rude, but you're asking a lot of pretty poncho-novice questions here and you're reaching for a lofty goal.

In this case, you're probably best off building horsepower through your checkbook. What I would do is call up one of the big poncho builders and tell them what you want and what your intended purpose for the car is. Pay them to build you the combo.

Many people make the mistake of building a poncho like a BBC. It never really works out all that great. It'll cost you money, but in the end that might be less then building two engines if something goes wrong with the first build from a scrapped together parts list.

I hope that doesn't come off rude in any way. I just believe IMHO that it's the best route for your specific situation.

[wmhjr]

Not to be rude, but STOP trying to design a build on this forum and call a few builders with true pontiac experience. Building a pontiac is a completely different experience, and it's not an internet order online by the numbers game. If you really want a 9 second car, you need to take a lot into consideration. This conversation is bouncing around like 7 year old after a halloween candy binge.

A stock 400 block is a good start for a healthy engine, but it takes work to get a car below 10 seconds. Pontiacs have some obvious valvetrain disadvantages and some torque advantages. There are limited head choices. KRE, E-Heads, Tigers and Roland Canted Valves (which have relatively little race experience yet). Of the KREs and E-Heads, you've got D-Ports (new to Edelbrock actually), wideports and high ports. Flow bench numbers are almost meaningless - its as much about "how" it flows rather than "how much". Then you've got the differences in the flow benches. Dave at SD has an honest bench. If he says 320cfm, it's 320. If you order directly from Kaufmann, 320 on their bench may not be on another bench. KRE has a better chamber. New E-Heads (not yet on the market) will somewhat duplicate the KRE chamber. Hedman headers are not optimal for pontiac D-Ports - Dougs are better (but more expensive). Neither are larger than 2 3/4 for D-Ports. Depending on what it's going in, round ports can be a fitment nightmare. If you think you're going to call Bullit or Comp and invent a new cam profile you're wasting time and effort. Poncho roller cams (which is DEFINITELY what you'll need) ain't chebbies. You're already limited by relatively poor exhaust valve capability.

IMHO you've got a couple routes.

1) Stop trying to design a 9 second motor here and call some very good reputable pontiac specific builders, and hope you get what you want. You'll need to spend equal time dialing in your chassis/suspension. Consider either an IA or an MR block.

2) Roll the dice staying on your present path, and rebuild a few times. There are tons of guys that have gone down that path and have spent WAY more than 30k in motor alone by the time they got done. Most of the time, they never get in the 9s. Take a ride up to Norwalk, OH in August for Pontiac Nationals and you'll see.

Pontiacs are great motors. Torque monsters than can be street demons pretty easily. But there are limitations to what can be easily done, and getting in the 9s is tough with one. Mine is built for just under 600hp (I mean JUST under) and runs cool, with very little timing, and stays way over 500tq all the time. KRE heads, roller cam, solid lifters, .660 lift, Ross pistons, forged stroker crank, ultralight I-beam 4340 rods... Taking that next step gets real tough and real expensive.

Take it for what it's worth. Some of the other posts here (like Davids) have been spot on, but the direction here seems to change dangerously often.