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    1. #341
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,635
      Country Flag: United States
      Joe,

      I am so confused...the tires say BFG...but the tread pattern says "Nitto."



      The springs will continue to settle some, but not too much. Remember that the alignment will change if ride height changes.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 2.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her


    2. #342
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      Joe,

      I am so confused...the tires say BFG...but the tread pattern says "Nitto."

      The springs will continue to settle some, but not too much. Remember that the alignment will change if ride height changes.

      Andrew
      Hi Andrew, you are correct. I sanded down the Nitto sidewalls and glued on the raised white letters for the old school look with the Olds SSI wheels. Running the 555s front and drag radials rear. I love the RWL look with SSIs and it gives it a little bit of a sleeper look on the street. People either HATE the look or love it. To each his own I guess.

      Here's a thread on it: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...-tire-stickers


      Understood on the alignment and ride height - it's a never ending process to get everything dialed in!!

      -Joe

      - - - Updated - - -
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    3. #343
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Then new Eddiemotorsports hood hinges apparently can't get enough "grip" where they attach to my glass fenders. Frank is going to customize a metal backing plate that will be out of site inside the fender. Hopefully this will make them rock solid and good to go. Will update when he's done.
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    4. #344
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Coquitlam, BC, Canada
      Posts
      71
      Country Flag: Canada
      When will you be finally painting her?

    5. #345
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Quote Originally Posted by Big Dawg View Post
      When will you be finally painting her?
      It's time. After I get it back and make sure all the upgrades are good, it's off to paint jail. No more upgrades or enhancements until the paint is done. 3 part plan:

      1. First I have a place that will instill my NOS passenger side quarter, new door skins, and do all the major metal body work.
      2. Then I have a totally different place that specializes in fiberglass - he will be doing the glass decklid, fenders, hood, front bumper, & front spoiler. All the gaps will be made perfect, foam inserts will be installed in the fenders to make them more rigid and "150 mph proof", and the front bumper & spoiler will be all cleaned up. All parts will be done so they are perfect and fully removable.
      3. Then the car will go back to the original guy who did the metal work to prime and block the entire car and finally paint it back to the original Lime Green paint code 43. Will be going with the bigger W-30 white stripes down the sides that were on the car when I bought it but not correct for a standard (non-W-30 442). I just like the way those stripes look better and think they really offset the lime green well. Then will add the large white stripes on the ram air hood scoops to stock spec and the pin stripes on the decklid.

      Then will need a new convertible top & all my interior upgrades. It never ends!!

      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    6. #346
      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      138
      YOU GO JOE!!

      My advice is to do all of your upgrades and make sure they are what you hoped for before you paint it.

    7. #347
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Hey Dan. Yep will definitely take a few weeks to check everything out. The 200 mile drive back from Frank's shop will be a good start. Just need some decent weather. Hoping to get the car in and started on the body work before the winter ends but we'll see how things go.

      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    8. #348
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      OK with the taller 1" aluminum spacer on top of the front spring and a 3rd spacer under the front spring, the ride height seems to be equal front to back. Still have to see if it settles more when it gets driven.


      Frank made the custom support plates behind the glass fenders for the new hood hinges:


      it's better now but still a bit overpowering for the fenders. I had ordered the "300" shocks for mine. Wondering if a softer shock will solve the problem?? Will reach out to Eddiemotorsports.

      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    9. #349
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Called Eddiemotorsports about their hood hinges. I spoke with Jeff Howe. Explained my situation with the fiberglass fenders and he said he's never heard of anyone installing them on glass fenders. I said so they are made for glass hoods but shouldn't be used in combination with glass fenders? He said maybe you're the first person we've ever heard this from. I asked what about going with softer shocks and told him I ordered mine with the "300" shocks. He said anything softer won't hold the hood up. So I said if we can't get them to work can I send them back for a refund and he said partial only since you mounted them and only if you purchased them 60 days ago or less. Of course I got them in September so too late for that. I said do you have any suggestions here and he said to remove the shocks completely and use a prop stick to hold your hood up. Really? Not too impressed with the customer service if I'm being honest but since most aren't using glass fenders I will probably be in the minority for having an issue.

      So...now that I can't get a refund and already have the support plates for the brackets, time to go even more custom to MAKE them work. Frank is going to try to install long metal plates again on the inside down the length of the fenders with fiberglass molded over the top of them. I told him even if it's ugly I could have the fiberglass guy "clean it up" when I get to that part of the body work done but also it will be out of site so I'm not too worried about it. Since I was going to have foam inserts added for more support anyway this process may cut down on what's needed for that.
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    10. #350
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Harriman, Tennessee
      Posts
      1,240
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by 71OLDS View Post
      Called Eddiemotorsports about their hood hinges. I spoke with Jeff Howe. Explained my situation with the fiberglass fenders and he said he's never heard of anyone installing them on glass fenders. I said so they are made for glass hoods but shouldn't be used in combination with glass fenders? He said maybe you're the first person we've ever heard this from. I asked what about going with softer shocks and told him I ordered mine with the "300" shocks. He said anything softer won't hold the hood up. So I said if we can't get them to work can I send them back for a refund and he said partial only since you mounted them and only if you purchased them 60 days ago or less. Of course I got them in September so too late for that. I said do you have any suggestions here and he said to remove the shocks completely and use a prop stick to hold your hood up. Really? Not too impressed with the customer service if I'm being honest but since most aren't using glass fenders I will probably be in the minority for having an issue.

      So...now that I can't get a refund and already have the support plates for the brackets, time to go even more custom to MAKE them work. Frank is going to try to install long metal plates again on the inside down the length of the fenders with fiberglass molded over the top of them. I told him even if it's ugly I could have the fiberglass guy "clean it up" when I get to that part of the body work done but also it will be out of site so I'm not too worried about it. Since I was going to have foam inserts added for more support anyway this process may cut down on what's needed for that.
      I don't see where Eddie Motorsports is in any way a problem here. The problem isn't with his hood hinges, it's with your weak, fiberglass fenders.

      Now, as to the fenders. I would make a metal brace that extends from the firewall to the core support. Anything less is likely to flex too much.
      You ever wonder what medieval cook looked at the guts of a pig and thought, "I bet if you washed out that poop tube, you could stuff it with meat and eat it."

    11. #351
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      My issue with Eddie Motorsports was with their customer service and lack of giving a [email protected] with this issue. I totally understand I may be the first person to try to install their hood hinges on glass fenders but if they don't work with fiberglass fenders then they should mention that on their site or offer at least a partial refund (even outside of 60 days) especially if this was the first time this had ever come up. Telling me to use a prop stick is just being an a$$hole in my opinion. Keep in mind stock hood hinges work fine with my glass fenders so it's something about the design or function of their hinges that causes glass fenders to buckle. Anyway you're entitled to your opinion on it. Maybe be you would feel differently if it was your $650 and you heard what this guy had to say.

      As far as the metal brace goes that's exactly the plan.

      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    12. #352
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      A few updates -

      On the new hood hinges Frank found a place close to his shop in MD that sells hundreds of different kinds of shocks in all shapes and sizes. He's going to try swapping out some different ones and see if we can find one that allows the hood to close and stay up with no issues. Right now if you take the shocks off the hood functions perfectly. Frank thinks a longer shock but with the same rating might solve the issue without having to put steel braces in the glass fenders. Hoping it works. We'll see how it goes.

      Turning lock to lock seems to be perfect now. On a test drive with hard cornering and doing tight circles in a parking lot - no issues with rubbing on the sway bar. That's huge for my future autocross plans where I will be really cornering all out. U turns are working great too for street driving and simple parking is trouble free with no tire squeaking. All of the negatives I used to have with the B-body spindles and my old steering box seem to be resolved now.

      Unfortunately the front springs have settled more. Now the front is slightly lower than the back once again. The back is where it should be with the GM A body roll center on a stock frame (see previous detail on that) so have to go up more on the front. We already had 3 steel spacers under the front springs which I didn't like because they weigh 1 lb each. Now we need to add a 4th. That's 4 lbs added to each side! Since Frank is a metal worker by trade I asked if he could create a metal spacer with a lighter weight metal that is the same shape and height as these 4 pieces stacked on top of each other to hopefully drop about 3 lbs on each side. Before he does that we want to get more miles on the car to make sure it doesn't settle even more. Want to make sure the ride height front and rear matches and stays that way and the least amount of weight is added.

      3rd brake light added to rear spoiler - to help prevent getting rear ended with my 5000 miles of street driving a year, I wanted to have a brake light added to the wing. I'm copying a Pontiac Firebird I saw with this done on. The wing is skinny so it will take some custom fiberglass work to get it right. Frank is going to wire it up for me but it will be custom installed when all the fiberglass work is done on the car hopefully later this year. Because it's installed on the "under side" it's not really obvious until the brake light comes on- which I like. Here are some pics of what I'm going to copy:




      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    13. #353
      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      138
      Where have you been Joe?

    14. #354
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Hi Dan,

      I put my 442 on the back burner to work on my son's 70 Cutlass Supreme. He got married about a month ago and is getting ready to get reassigned/promoted in the Army so the clock is ticking to get projects done. It's not a pro-touring build so I don't post here. I've posted details on the car for the last few years here: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...started-90453/. The car was actually with my Dad since 2016 since my son didn't have a garage where he was stationed but he should have a new place with a garage later this year. He used it in his wedding as you can see in a short video on that thread. Hoping to be back to working on the 442 again later this summer.

      -Joe
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    15. #355
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      It's been a while since I had an update. Lots of progress on my son's 70 Cutlass Supreme over the last few months but finally work has started back on the 71 442. First I had some changes/mods to the roll bar. Needed to have some new "hooks" welded in for the door bars (will show pics later on that) but while we were at it I was never happy with the placement of the rear down bars. They were not splayed out as far as they could be at the bottom. This caused issues with the rear seat and reduced space for the rear seat passengers. Now the bars are as far out as possible - literally against the wheel well. The top of the down bar was pushed outboard the same amount to keep the same angle. Here are some pics:


      It looks the same as it did before (which is exactly what I wanted) but now you can see this passenger side down bar at the bottom is against the wheel well:

      Previously it was about 2" further inboard (on both sides) which created the issues I explained above.
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    16. #356
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      A few new updates. First not sure why the roll bar pic I posted above keeps disappearing. Will try to paste here again:


      Made the decision to move on from the Eddie Motorsports hood hinges. Could not get them to work on my 442 because of the glass fenders and the lighter aftermarket ram air hood (vs original or some of the heavier repros). Frank is going to try them on another car with steel fenders and a factory original hood. We'll see if they work. I'm back to old school originals.

      Next is the spacers for the front end. As mentioned previously to dial in my ride height with the new springs and control arms we've been using spacers to get it just right. The problem is we were up to 4 spacers at about a lb each. So Frank designed a lightweight spacer to go in the place of the 4 to save about 3.5 lbs on both sides:


      I had purchased a fully reconditioned Heater/AC unit for my son's 70 Cutlass but it turned out it was not needed. Since the one on my 442 was showing it's age , the new one was installed. As mentioned in the posts for the Cutlass it's so nice. Looks brand new and every position on every lever "clicks" into it's spot. My old one wouldn't slide all the way to the "Cold" location and I never knew if that prevented the AC from being as cold as it could. Also I will keep the other one and can have the same company rebuild it for either car if needed down the road:
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    17. #357
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Got some more updates and pics to provide. Car is finally dialed in with the new ride height using the custom spacers on the front.



      It's not sitting nice and low anymore (my preference for the lower look) but according to Mark at SCandC, this is the correct ride height for a stock GM A body frame for the best handling because of the roll center (See all the details from several posts ago). I am happy the front and rear look to be similar heights (top of rim to wheel well). Looking forward to testing the car out for results on this change as well as the new Varishock dbl adjustable shocks, progressive rate jounce bumpers, "correct" set up front and rear with spring/shock combo (vs coil overs front and wrong springs rear) and front sway bar mods so steering can go lock to lock without rubbing. Want to see how the car feels/drives/handles during regular street driving as well as hard corners and eventually autocross.

      Also I love having the GO EFI 8 handheld for adjustments and to view the #s for AFR, IAG, Volts, temp etc but I always hated the big black arm that held it in place. It's now installed in the ash tray. Really happy with how it turned out. Can close the ash tray door and can't tell it's even there, drive with the ash tray open to view, and it's attached by velcro so you can still pull it out and make adjustments.

      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    18. #358
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      I finally came across a company that makes the "Olds SSI looking" wheel exactly like the ones I have now. The problem was NEW GEN who made my current 18s is out of business and I didn't like the look of most of the companies that make the "Magnum" wheels or they didn't make them in the sizes I wanted.....until now. Schott wheels recently came out with their Magnum wheel and it checks ALL my boxes and the quality and look matches my NEW GENs. Here's the link:

      https://www.schottwheels.com/wheel/m...ts/12918-2296/

      and a few pics of their wheel:




      Also I think my custom Olds rocket caps will bolt right on:
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    19. #359
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Had another learning session last night with Mark Savitske at SC&C mostly on things NOT to do. See my earlier posts about my previous learning sessions from him. As a reminder he has spent decades working with 68-72 GM A-body cars and making them handle better for street, track etc. I'm fully drinking the cool aide now and have most of his parts/suggestions on my 442. He also wrote the book “How to Make Your Muscle Car Handle”. Anyway my plan was to upgrade wheels and tires to a combo of taller wheels and tires. Was leaning towards 20x11s in the rear on 305/35/20 Nitto 555rs and either 20s or 19s in the front in a 10" wide or maybe even 11" wheel (if it could be made to fit) with a higher end high performance front tire. I was really liking the "square" setup look with 305s front and rear for example. I've seen a few cars done like this and the new muscle cars like the Hellcat and GT350 Mustangs are running similar sizes.

      After talking with him it turns out this would be counter productive with the other parts I've already added that currently work really with the roll center of the factory GM A body frame. Mark confirmed ideally the rear tire should be at or around 27.5" tall and the front should be at or around 26.7" tall. Since I'm currently at 28.78/27 I'm too tall now and didn't realize I could make things worse by going taller. Also Mark explained with my setup the wider front wheel/tire combo could actually make things worse and cause issues with turning radius and other things that were working really well as I have them now. He explained going with a 305 front and rear square set up could work but I would need to make other changes to accommodate (tear out stock inner fender, add wide body flares, because it makes the wheel turning radius even wider - have to alter several things - there's a long list here ). Additionally going that wide could cause issues for street driving including simple things like making a U turn, parking etc, plus could cause trammeling on the highway where the front wheels track left and right on imperfections on the road. And then there's the additional weight. Bottom line he suggested staying with an 8" wide wheel front or a max of 9" and suggested only a 245 45 18 front tire - better to stretch it on a 9" wheel vs the 255 45 18 I'm running now on an 8" wheel. He said he's had several clients win and/or do very well running only a 245/45/18 tire at autocross events and even put down faster times than those with much wider setup for the reasons explained above especially when there are 180 degree turns in the autocross event. For the rear he said an 18x10 with something like a 285/45/18 is all you need. I've currently got a 305/45/18 drag radial on an 18x10 which I explained had lots of room all around due to clearancing in the wheel well, rolling the outer lip, and flat spots put on the 3" tail pipes. He said that was great but told me he bets if I put it though an autocross event it would hit. We'll see but apparently my current tires are not ideal at 28.78" in the rear. Nitto 555r does make a 305/40/18 drag radial that is only 27.7" tall and he said that would be great for height but would need to be on an 11" wide wheel (10" would not be ideal) and if it didn't hit (again TBD) would be excellent for autocross at about 40 psi. He confirmed he's had several customers running Nitto 555rs successfully in autocross however he did forewarn that many autocross events require treadwear rating of the tire to be 200 or above to have your times "count" if you're trying to place. You can still do the event for fun and get a time but it won't count as far as placing. The Nitto 555rs are 100 TW rating.

      So in summary my plan is to swap out my front Nitto 555 255/45/18s for some 245/45/18s and might even upgrade to a 9" wheel at some point. I found the Mich Pilot 4S tire would actually be 4.8" lbs lighter than the Nittos. That alone would be a huge improvement to drop almost 5 lbs of unsprung weight on both sides. Then for the rear I may upgrade to a 18x11 rim and drop down to 305/40/18 555rs. If they rub during autocross I can use them for street and drag race only and then buy a set of 285/45/18 tires to go on my current 18x10s. These could also be used if the 100 TW rating of the Nittos becomes an issue for certain autocross events.
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

    20. #360
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      Virginia Beach VA
      Posts
      379
      Making a few "back to stock appearing" changes to the 442. First this is an older pic of my original interior:

      ..nothing screams 70s like an 8 track player but I don't want to listen to a 1971 8 track player. Like most I have a high end stereo with amp, subs, bluetooth etc but I really like the stock look. So I'm going back to the original 8 track player and will also install the original am radio in the dash. The 8 track player weighs a ton so going to have Frank cut it in half and put a hinge on the front. Then the aftermarket stereo will be installed (hidden) behind the fold down part. I'm stealing this idea from some pics I found:


      Here's my old 8 track player coming back together and cut in half to remove all the unwanted weight:


      The 8 track player didn't work so we are not butchering a working product here.
      Joe Lincoln
      Lime Green 71 Olds 442 Convertible

      Upgrades thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ible&highlight=

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