L & H Kustoms Pro Billet Tall Aluminum Spindles

[ZZ427]

Luke , These are available now , yes ?

[GrabberGT]

i would be interested in a 65 mustang/falcon spindle. With a shorter steering arm. This would solve everyones problem with after market rack and pinion kits. make sure the spindle is rear steer. i have a wilwood kit for my stock spindle and would like to keep that option.

Sign me up for a set as well. Also running wilwood on stock spindles. My front wheels are 17X8 with 4" BS.

[Jarcaines]

Is there a price including hubs and caliper brackets yet?

[L & H Kustoms]

Luke , These are available now , yes ?

We will begin shipping these by the end of the 2nd week in Nov.

My machine shop is building fixtures to run production and we will begin end of next week. we are making 50 pairs of each. I will be in vegas for SEMA all week I will have a few sets with me if anyone would like to take a look at them firsthand.

[L & H Kustoms]

Is there a price including hubs and caliper brackets yet?

Clear anodized Hubs with bearings, seals, ARP studs and billet grease caps $325
Billet Caliper Brackets $120

If purchasing spindles hubs and brackets together Save $50

We are now taking orders

[L & H Kustoms]

Here are some pictures of our billet hubs. They will come hard anodized clear.



Here are some pics of our Tall non drop spindle.

[L & H Kustoms]

Ok here some pics of our Pro Billet Tall non drop spindle. They will come anodized black as well. We begin production monday and they will begin shipping out Nov. 12

[L & H Kustoms]

thought you like to see some install pics took some pics with stock brakes and will get some C6 brake pics after I get back from SEMA

['70rs]

Looking great Luke! Best of luck with the sales. If you remember (from Lat-g) I have a 70 camaro so I can't jump on the wagon here. But I do like them.

How is the family doing these days?

[L & H Kustoms]

Looking great Luke! Best of luck with the sales. If you remember (from Lat-g) I have a 70 camaro so I can't jump on the wagon here. But I do like them.

How is the family doing these days?

Eric thanks the family is doing great spending the day with them today I leave tomorrow morning to go to SEMA gonna miss the fam
btw I am working on some spindles for the 2nd gen F body so you can jump on the wagon soon :-)

[quiksilvr]

How about a dropped spindle for c5/c6 suspensions. There are a lot of after market clips based of of the vette suspension that could use a dropped spindle. I would be all over it.

[L & H Kustoms]

We are now taking orders we will begin shipping orders on Friday.

[TitoJones]

We are now taking orders we will begin shipping orders on Friday.

So what was the final breaking point of the spindle during destructive testing? How much force did it take before it began to deform? At that force, how much deformity was there, and in which area? How much force did your press in inserts see before they came out of the spindle? What is the cycle life of the spindles in years/mileage?

Tyler

[L & H Kustoms]

So what was the final breaking point of the spindle during destructive testing? How much force did it take before it began to deform? At that force, how much deformity was there, and in which area? How much force did your press in inserts see before they came out of the spindle? What is the cycle life of the spindles in years/mileage?

Tyler

Tyler we have done our destructive testing and I can tell you that our newly designed ball joint insert which are threaded in and retained by a snap ring are solidly fixed in the spindle to prevent them from coming out and also to prevent them from coming loose and spinning in the upright are not coming out. as far as the cyclic fatigue they can withstand well over a million cycles at our input loads which are double what the normal load would be which is how its rated not in years/miles I am very curious as to how you came up with your "estimated fatigue life" which I know you state is 15yrs 225k miles. did you have these on a car for 15 yrs? did you put 225k miles of hard driving on them. what kind of driving did you do when you determined this. freeway driving driving, on a cobblestone road smooth or full of potholes I just find it funny that you can determine mileage based on cycle fatigue. Its based on the number of cycles not miles and time .and everyone drives there vehicles different. I can tell you that our spindles and designed to withstand our 4k lbs input load at 2g's force horizontal and vertical with a 1500lb ft rotational force and they are rated at over 1 million cycles at these loads being applied at the same time which actually wont happen. Please tell me how you can put that into years/miles, It doesnt work like that.

[TitoJones]

Tyler we have done our destructive testing and I can tell you that our newly designed ball joint insert which are threaded in and retained by a snap ring are solidly fixed in the spindle to prevent them from coming out and also to prevent them from coming loose and spinning in the upright are not coming out. as far as the cyclic fatigue they can withstand well over a million cycles at our input loads which are double what the normal load would be which is how its rated not in years/miles I am very curious as to how you came up with your "estimated fatigue life" which I know you state is 15yrs 225k miles. did you have these on a car for 15 yrs? did you put 225k miles of hard driving on them. what kind of driving did you do when you determined this. freeway driving driving, on a cobblestone road smooth or full of potholes I just find it funny that you can determine mileage based on cycle fatigue. Its based on the number of cycles not miles and time .and everyone drives there vehicles different. I can tell you that our spindles and designed to withstand our 4k lbs input load at 2g's force horizontal and vertical with a 1500lb ft rotational force and they are rated at over 1 million cycles at these loads being applied at the same time which actually wont happen. Please tell me how you can put that into years/miles, It doesnt work like that.

We did on track testing with slicks, consulted with GM, talked with the foundry that casts the C5/C6 Corvette upright, got design feedback from Mark Stielow, did heavy FEA in solidworks, and then after all that did multiple destructive test to the point of failure. Our spindle saw loads of over 24,000 lbs and not only did it hold, it didn't even deform a few thousandths of an inch. (that means you could hang seven 3,400 lb Camaros off the AFX spindle and it would smile and take it.)

The first test we did ripped our lower ball joint insert out from the forging before it saw even the slightest of loads; so we redesigned it, the materials, and the direction and method that it went in. (which was such a great design, you put in into your own product). Here is the first design that was threaded, and had 220,00 PSI spiral locks installed onto it and it STILL came out:


To answer your question, the way we got to our cyclic load replacement recommendation is by being conservative. We took all our data, all GM's data, all the engineers, foundry's and solidworks data, and then went ultra conservative for liability reasons. I'm sure the AFX spindle can see loads that exceed what we recommend, we engineered it that way. I'm also sure it will see cycles that will exceed any billet machined counterpart; forgings will always be stronger and lighter. Could we have told people it would see 5 million load cycles? Sure we could have. Is that smart from a liability standpoint? Not even a little.

I know you think I'm attacking your product, but I'm not. I just want to make sure that you do the destructive testing you claim before you start selling these. I'd like to see a broken spindle, the load at which it broke, and the area/part that failed. Ours ended up breaking just past the 13 ton mark and it looked like this:



So after all said and done we have been used by Mark Stielow on his personal car, GM on SEMA show cars, Katech in house projects, Pure Vision on the z/28 Nova, and well over 600 other members rides on these message forums. We are established. We did our research. We did our homework. We have the hard figures and engineers to back it up. We have always been upfront and forthcoming with our products and we have made a name for ourselves by doing so. So answer my initial question, the loads it saw, the amount of deformity and the area that broke with pictures and I'll be out of your hair and give you a thumbs up for bringing a well developed, safe, product to the market. You don't want this to be you:
https://www.pro-touring.com//showthr...pindle+failure
https://www.pro-touring.com//showthr...pindle+failure

Tyler

[1in1969]

Tyler, my personal opinion is that you are not attacking L&H, esp now that you have sold your spindle company, I am glad that you "are staying in his hair" about this subject. I would think anyone that was doing/considering this type of thing would learn alot from your posts and esp the pics. Thanks for keeping safety first. Lou impressive that you are doing this, keep your chin up, we would all do well to listen to those who have gone before us, I am not saying you have to do what Tyler says, but I think it would be wise to make sure you are not offended and at least just take it in. Shawn

[TitoJones]

Tyler, my personal opinion is that you are not attacking L&H, esp now that you have sold your spindle company, I am glad that you "are staying in his hair" about this subject. I would think anyone that was doing/considering this type of thing would learn alot from your posts and esp the pics. Thanks for keeping safety first. Lou impressive that you are doing this, keep your chin up, we would all do well to listen to those who have gone before us, I am not saying you have to do what Tyler says, but I think it would be wise to make sure you are not offended and at least just take it in. Shawn

Well, L&H did take quite a bit from our AFX spindle program and implement it into their design; from the ball joint inserts to the 6061-T6 material, to the overall height, all taken directly from our spindle. We know why we did these engineering requirements; seems to me they just took our spec sheet and made it a billet version. Even the wording in their initial posting describing the spindle was taken from our website.

*snip* machined out of ultra strong, lightweight 6061 T6511 aircraft spec aluminum *snip*

The tall spindle incorporates a raised upper ball joint to radically improve the vehicles handling characteristics by transforming the camber gain to improve handling. The Pro Billet™ Tall Spindle bolts directly in place of the OEM assembly to either factory or aftermarket tubular control arms, and with the use of hardened SAE660 bronze upper and lower ball joint inserts, any taper can be machined into the spindle.

Our description:

*snip* the spindle is forged out of ultra strong, lightweight 6061 T6 aircraft spec aluminum and is available in 2 versions; stock and tall. The tall spindle radically improves the vehicles handling characteristics by transforming the camber gain, *snip*

with the use of hardened 7075 T6 aluminum upper and 4130 steel lower ball joint inserts, any taper can be machined into the spindle.

I know why our spindle is 1.4 inches taller than factory and not 1.5" or 2"; we did the physical geometry testing on actual frames with 4 different types of control arms, & 3 upper control arm attachment points. We played with quite a few steering arm attachment points to eliminate bumpsteer; We consulted with the best of the best, and always listened to feedback and design input from those who have come before us and learned the hard way how to make a better spindle.
I just want to make sure that all the standards we were being held to before we came to market are addressed before these make it onto someones vehicle that could end up costing L & H their business with a potential lawsuit.

Tyler

[RobSMalibu]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed. LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.

[FirstGenZq8]

mods, please don't lock this thread. this needs to stay open for as long as possible.

also, delete this post of mine since it offers nothing to this thread.

[Kenova]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed. LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.

I've never met Tyler, but I've been around here long enough to know that this is how he (and knowledgeable others) helps those of us without the knowledge and engineering expertise. Tyler will put your feet to the fire and ask the hard questions. If he did it privately, the rest of us wouldn't hear the question or the answer.
I'm sure Luke is just as intent on producing a safe product as Tyler has been in the past. When it comes to stuff like this, there is no sugar coating the questions.

Ken