Flat Black Paint

[The Humbler]

I am seriously considering painting me car a flat black color but i am not sure what the process would be. since it is "flat" black i assume there is no clear coat used. So is there a automotive paint that is flat black and if so how would you protect the finish from scratches and fading etc. Also i have heard where some of the "ratrod" group just use a primer called dp-90, is this and exeptable painting method. What paint did plymouth and dodge use on the blacked out hood of the cude and challenger in the 60's and 70's.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We just finished a all steel highboy American Graffitti car. We tried some stuff the Rat Rod guys recomeded. Some John Deere blitz black, total ****. I ended up scuffing the car and using a tried and true Acrylic Enamel formula I use on restorations on subframes, inner wheelhouses, stuff that needs to be semi gloss black. It is a Acrylic enamel with a hardner, and flating agent. It is much more durable then DP90, looks like paint, and not primer, and is not expensive at all.
Car looks killer now and now all the Rat rod guys that recomended the John Deere crap, want this formula.
PM if you want to do it.
Here are some pics

[MuscleRodz]

Dupont has a flattened black in their "Hot Hues" line called Hot Rod Black. It is not dead flat, but has about an eggshell sheen.

Mike

[Travis B]

Dupont and PPG have a flatening agent that can be used in the clear coat (basecoat clear coat process)! However the tricky part is there is no cutting and buffing what you spray is what you get because if you buff it! it shines

[bnickel]

Dupont has a flattened black in their "Hot Hues" line called Hot Rod Black. It is not dead flat, but has about an eggshell sheen.

Mike

i have that on the hood, taillight panel, and headlight buckets of my 69 gt coupe.

[68protouring454]

standox/spies has a semi gloss clear, that goes over any regular basecoat, and claim it can be buffed, i will get a tech sheet on it, and you can buy it by the quart also, its makes reg black base the perfect shade of semi gloss
jake

[Firehawkslp]

We just finished a all steel highboy American Graffitti car. We tried some stuff the Rat Rod guys recomeded. Some John Deere blitz black, total ****. I ended up scuffing the car and using a tried and true Acrylic Enamel formula I use on restorations on subframes, inner wheelhouses, stuff that needs to be semi gloss black. It is a Acrylic enamel with a hardner, and flating agent. It is much more durable then DP90, looks like paint, and not primer, and is not expensive at all.
Car looks killer now and now all the Rat rod guys that recomended the John Deere crap, want this formula.
PM if you want to do it.
Here are some pics

I had also heard about the J D Blitz color seemed to good to be true. What was the specific problem? I remmeber one of the guys in high school had a 69 mach 1 with flat black hood this was about 77-78, it was factory paint and still looked good. I was wondering if that formulation was still available. My 2 cents worth of wisdom comes to this. Don't let anyone tell you to use an epoxy prime. All of the reps. I've spoken with say basicly the same thing; primes are not designed to be weather tight they don't protect the metal from the elements.

[rkcuda]

The AAR cudas used a product/system called organisol (spelling?) It is a textured paint that has some 'bumps' in it. It is very difficult to purchase now.

[MuscleRodz]

The AAR cudas used a product/system called organisol (spelling?) It is a textured paint that has some 'bumps' in it. It is very difficult to purchase now.

VERY difficult because it is still laquer based. I used it on a 71 Challenger hood I did 18 months ago. Year One stocks it, but hazmat shipping was as much as the damn quart. I was able to get the second quart locally through our PPG dealer, but they had to special order some of the ingrediants (sp?). The Dupont stuff is not the same.

Mike

[ProdigyCustoms]

Firehawk, sorry for the delayed answer, i missed the post. The blitz black was just junk, cheapo straight enamel. Stripeing was a big issue, also fuzzed real bad, it also tried to dry before you got around the vehicle, even the little 32 body. Just complete junk in everyway. It finger nail scrathed real bad.
Funny enough, when the owner complained about it, they told him to find a better painter, LOL! I thought that was perfect. Guess I need to tune up my skills so I can be qualified to paint tractors!

[427v8]

I Emailed House of Kolor about this and they recommend using a basecoat/clearcoat with a flattening agent. They said you can get a dead flat look that way.

Also don't wax it as that will, amazingly, make it glossier.

Here their tech note;

FA-01 FLATTENING AGENT™

GENERAL INFORMATION
Flattening Agent is designed to reduce the gloss of our acrylic lacquer and polyurethane enamel topcoats and clears. Flattening Agent
will not effect adhesion or hardness. It is great for under carriages, frames and engine parts where high gloss is not desired, but a
tough, durable finish is.
1. MIXING FLATTENING AGENT (FA-01)
Shake or stir FA-01 to ensure a uniform blend. Add while stirring to your mixed topcoat or clear. A drill and a paint
stirring attachment ensure a uniform blend.
2 oz. of FA-01 added to a quart of ready to spray topcoat or clear = 10% gloss reduction; (4 oz. = 25%,
6 oz. = 60%, 8 oz. = 90%, 12 oz. = 95%, 16 oz. = 99%).
NOTE: Each product will react differently to FA-01 based on the solid content of product used.
Add additional reducer for proper sprayability. Amount of reducer is based on amount of FA-01 added. Guide 25% extra reducer
based on amount of FA-01 added (example: 4 oz. of FA-01 - add 1 oz. of extra reducer).
NOTE: Large amounts of FA-01 (8 oz. or more per "ready to spray" mixed quart) can cause reduction of flexibility, which should be
considered before applying to flexible substrates. Do not exceed 16 oz. of FA-01 per mixed quart. Adding more Flattening Agent
beyond this point will have no effect on further gloss reduction.
2. APPLYING FLATTENING AGENT (FA-01)
Strain the paint into your paint gun. Use normal application methods based on the product you are spraying. Gloss reduction will
begin as the paint dries. Dry overnight to show the true final level of gloss flattening.
NOTE: We recommend painting a test panel and allowing it to dry for 12 hours to determine the true final gloss flattening.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Using House Of Color to do a flat black is wasteing tons of money. If you need a candy, HOC is it, but a bit expensive for a flat primer look.
Acrylic enamel with Harder and flating agent is more then enough, and can be done for $200.00 or so. I bet HOC would be north of $500 for materials, and be no more durable.


JMO

[RobM]

ProdigyCustoms....that car is friggen mean looking...i want to build a project like that exactly sooo bad...i bet it hauls too looks like a hot small block. i think you really nailed the perfect look on that car.

[chicane67]

PPG "DP 90" , semi flat epoxy primer black. The best thing I have found and used so far.......

[Duesey]

ProdigyCustoms, do you mind giving out the formula for the centari flattened paint? I'm not into the flat paint stuff but I use centari with a flattener for all my chassis stuff but I've found that whenever I've tried to use a hardener it would gloss the paint back up. I've been just using centari and a flattener after my experiments. Six parts color to 1 part flattener is my favorite chassis color but as soon as I add hardner it glosses right up. You must be pouring a ton of flattener in to compensate for the hardner?

[ProdigyCustoms]

The problem with using flatner and no harder is that the paint will remain very porous and will stain. The hardner creates a chemical dry instead of a air dry, and a cross linking of sorts that helps with staining.
I do not use Dupont. I use Sherwin Williams. Sherwin Williams mixes 8 - 6 - 1. I mix as directed using their 247 hardner, which is not their super high gloss hardner, and also use the fastest thinner I can get away with without have a fuzz or dry spray problem. I then mix the flatner in at a rate of 50% of the unreduced paint. So in other words, if I start with a quart of raw material, I add a half quart of flatner at the end to get semi gloss. I mix around 70% flatner for semi flat, around 50% gloss.
Semi flat actually matches the DP90 primer look. The semi gloss I used on the street rod is more of a suede look. In the world of Chevrolet correct restoration, the semi gloss is correct for frames, inner wheel houses, etc. Semi flat would be correct for a firewall. It is important to note that the flatner will start to thin the material when adding a lot of it, so if doing a semi flat, I will substitute a bit of flatner for some of the recommended reducer.

[MuscleRodz]

Centari SUCKS IMO. Dupont has much better products out now. They have a paint you can buy right off the shelf in their "Hot Hues" line, preflattened, which I think is real close to what Frank did. It is called "HOT ROD BLACK".

Mike

[bnickel]

here is a better pic of it on my car, it's still a bit dusty in the pic, but near as bad as the first one i posted. that's what i get for living in west texas i guess, anyway here is a link to the pic

http://www.1969stang.com/gallery/bni...ar_hood?full=1

[ZL-1]

R-M has a Matte Black single stage urethane paint,not primer. #SC804 is the number.

[Q ship]

On a slight tangent to this, has anyone had any experience with PPG DCU2060 flat clear? I want a semigloss finish, but not black. I want to stay with PPG as I have bought their primer. Thanks!