new vs old safety technology

[kryptik]

The pictures don't do it justice, but here she is...

[Norm Peterson]

I'd trade away any door buckling in either direction in exchange for frontal structure that does crumple in a controlled fashion. That the door buckled means that the passenger compartment was compressed longitudinally at least on that side, moving you at least a little closer toward the windshield and the intruding hood.

My guess is that a hood that folded up somewhere along its mid-length would have left you a bit better off as well.

I'm not trying to downplay anything that may have helped keep you from being injured more severely. What I am trying to do is keep the structural evaluation on track. Engineering looks at details and numbers, not just an overview of the general arrangement.

It's been a little over 40 years since I was involved in a fairly serious intersection crash involving black ice (for visualization, I was the 'stem' of the letter 'T'), and while it wasn't as severe as yours it still involved speeds somewhere north of 35 mph. I was driving a Chrysler Corp. unitized construction Valiant that had seen a number of New England winters (and a V8 engine swap). Long story short and as best as I can remember - I think I was 'out' for a few seconds - it did fold up some, mostly along the engine compartment but only enough along the driver's door to make it somewhat difficult to open. I came out of it all with a small cut from my head striking the mirror driving it into but not through the windshield. While I can't say for sure, I'm pretty sure that had that car been fitted with any sort of upper body restraint instead of just the two-point belt that I was wearing that I'd have escaped that injury as well.

A word on harnesses, though. The current thinking is that you do the harness only with a cage or roll bar for road course activities. The reason here being that the harness will keep you bolt upright in the seat, not a good thing if you manage to roll the car over and start crushing a roof unsupported by auxiliary rollover structure. Once the B-pillars start to give way, the A-pillars tend to follow suit and your spine then becomes a main supporting column for the weight of the now-inverted car. An OE lap/shoulder belt at least allows you to move or get shoved/thrown out of the vertical as the car is rolling. The rules for relatively low speed solo/autocross may let you get away with just the harness or other non-OE upper body restraint in a closed car only, but I don't think I'd drive around on the public roads like that.


Norm

[monza]

The pictures don't do it justice, but here she is...

Damn that is unreal, one ugly looking mess!

Oh that smart car crash is HARSH!

[kryptik]

I'd trade away any door buckling in either direction in exchange for frontal structure that does crumple in a controlled fashion. That the door buckled means that the passenger compartment was compressed longitudinally at least on that side, moving you at least a little closer toward the windshield and the intruding hood.


Norm

Agreed, not saying the car is perfect, just that it did the job it was meant to do, save my life.

A fiberglass hood that would crack before it penetrated the windshield would have been nice.

[mrengineer]

Wow - This is an interesting thread and timely for me!

First off, this is my first posting here (but I visit often). I am an OEM engineer with over 20 years vehicle crash safety experience. Vehicle crash worthiness is very complex and not often understood science. Having a rigid chassis with good torsional stiffness & NVH characteristics does not always translate into what is best for the driver. Example, being rigidly strapped (or attached) into a race car chassis and then hitting a wall or experiencing violent tire shake that transfers those forces directly to the human body without any energy management of the accelerations or ride down of the energy can lead to unfortunate results. That said todays cars & trucks are much improved with respect to crash worthiness. Adding structural chassis upgrades into our cars does not always translate to improved occupant performance.

[John Wright]

The pictures don't do it justice, but here she is...

Geez Matt, Wow what a crash.




I still think larger cars give you more room for the crumple than the smaller sub-compact cars. I'm sure the safety engineers do what they can with what they have to work with on the sub-compacts, but the facts are that they don't have alot of extra length and width to work with before the interior starts to be encroached upon.

[mikedc]

Anybody else remember how well this super-strong and rigid chassis worked out for the driver?

Crumple zones are important.

[fordsbyjay]

I don't know if I missed this or not but it was a recent test between old and new.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...aspx?gt1=33009

You can do a search for 59 chevy vs 09 chevy for more pics and videos.

[stangme]

interesting thread...
i was involved in an accident with my 96 Cobra, 45mph, someone ran a stop sign and boom.... airbag deployed, no brakes, rolled very slow across a couple lanes of traffic...
im convinced of one main thing.... if i hadn't installed steeda moly subframe connectors.... it would have been worse... with the subframe connectors... the roof pilar still deformed just behind the passenger window..maybe it was supposed too.
airbag smashed my glasses against my face... they didn't break... but ill have neck pain probably forever.. rehab got me back to being able to look to my left.. could have been much worse... im thankful it wasn't.. cobra was totaled..

as im getting closer to finishing my 69 mustang.... it will never be finished...lol... im am looking into a roll bar, with harness bar, huge brakes with late model spindles, possible ABS retrofit, hydroboost brake booster.. etc

but correct me if i am wrong, isnt the 69-70 mustang hood designed to buckle?

[signal20hack]

12/29/07, My wife and I were hit by a drunk driver. Both of us had on our seat belts. I was making a left turn when the drunk blow through the red light. We ended up 193' away from the intersection. I walked away, my wife was unconscious and cut out of the truck. I spent 1 day in the hospital. My wife was bay flighted out and spent 3 days in the hospital. My S10, bought new and very loved, died to save our lives. I believe if we had been in a lesser auto, we both would be dead.

[kryptik]

Wow...that accident reminds me of my own. I'm really glad to hear that you and your wife are okay!

Nothing beats the strength of a truck frame when it comes to a collision this serious. I still believe that all of the crumple zones combined with the lightweight materials used on new compact cars are more of a deathtrap than a savior. Yes they may work in a laboratory test, but if one of those cars were to kiss a moving van at a combined velocity of 100mph head-on, like I did, it would not be pretty.