BBC frame mount measurements (header clearance)

[01somta]

I have hit a small snag, I bought a set of Lemons (Dan Lemons) headers from my 502BBC in my stock subframe 68 Camaro. Everything fit perfect except the third tube back on the passenger side, the tube comes over/on top of the passenger side of the frame and has maybe about a 1/16" of clearance. I called Dan and he said I should about 1/2" of clearance. Dimpling these headers is not an option, he said he would redo the tube if it comes down to it. We decided that it could be my frame mounts. My frame and motor mounts are from Rick's and the frame mounts measure from the frame to the center of the top bolt hole 2 1/4" on the D.S. and 1 3/4" on the P.S. He said the mounts that he used were factory original and they measured 1 3/4" on the D.S. and 1 3/8" on the P.S. If anybody has any BBC frame mounts that you could measure that would be great. Here are some pics showing where I measure to get my measurements, again from the frame to the center of the top hole on the frame mount is wher I measured. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[01somta]

Here is a picture of the tube/frame interference.

[camrat68]

Are these the pro-touring or race headers from Lemons?
I was about to order the protour headers for my 68 Camaro with the 502HO. The engine is out for some freshening up and I'll get the measurements for the mounts tomorrow. I also have a set of small block mounts that I can measure.

Jim

[Vegas69]

This isn't rocket science. pozziracing.com has the facts. I can help whoever needs it as well. I have had 2 sets of lemons and researched mounts. PM me.

[camrat68]

Vegas, thanks for the heads-up about where to find the info. While I agree that it's not rocket science, we are dealing with custom headers. In my case, I want to go to Lemon's protour headers for ground clearance issues and it's definitely helpful to know if there are any issues that need to be resolved prior to trying to install something that costs twice as much as my coated Super Comps when I'm trying to nail down a budget for everything else that I'm trying to do with the car. I truly apologize if we annoyed you with the search for information that was new to us but old and boring for you.
I did search the Forum for info on headers for ground clearance which is where I found out about Lemon's.

I'll have to search your old posts to find out why you had to go to the second set and why you "had" them.
Thanks,
Jim

[Vegas69]

I went to a DSE subframe...that was the reason for the switch.

[01somta]

This isn't rocket science. pozziracing.com has the facts. I can help whoever needs it as well. I have had 2 sets of lemons and researched mounts. PM me.

Does this make you feel good inside? I guess that I don't understand why you even made this post other than to make yourself look good, if you had the answer then why didn't you just post it?? I ask a couple simple questions. I called and talked to Dan about my problems and he wanted me to call NPD and other places to get measurements on the frame stands, because the stands that he uses are stock GM and mine are from Rick's but are measurements are so far off. I'm just going to use some sbc stands but thanks for your help.

[Vegas69]

I did...on camaros.net. Small block stands 1969 307. Tallest combo you will need to swap out your crossmember and z bar for starters. I also ask if they were built for the wrong height exhaust port.

[Vegas69]

I apologize for my comments guys. If I can help please let me know.

[camrat68]

I also apologize if I took offense where none was intended.

I measured my stands and they're also from Rick's First Gen. The driver's side was 2 3/8" and the pass side was 2" measured from the center of the through-bolt hole to the frame. Now that I've re-read all of the posts in this thread, I'm even more confused. If these headers were set up on the original jig using those original frame stand dimensions, then you should be farther from the frame than intended rather than closer, right?

[Vegas69]

There were 3 different mount configurations. (In 69, 2 in 68) 302/350 mounts center the drivetrain and put the engine the lowest in the chassis. That was to provide air cleaner clearance. The big block setup was second lowest but moves the engine towards the passenger side to provide steering gear clearance. The 307/327 setup is the tallest configuration and also centers the drivetrain. You can figure out the height differences by adding the frame and engine mount values off pozzis site along with your engine mounts. You must use these in combinations. So if you change to 307 mounts you need 307 stands. I have factory 307 stands if either of you are interested in them.

[Vegas69]

Here are two links for future searchers that really help.
http://moroso.com/catalog/categorydi...?catcode=28100
http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

The only error I found on David Pozzi's site is that a 2.5 inch wide mount does fit 307/327 applications.

[camrat68]

There's a lot of good information there, Thank You.

Vegas, how did your headers fit with the stock subframe?

What I'm worried about now is that Lemon's header fixture was developed for a Gen one with a BBC sitting on frame stands that have the mounting bolt 5/8" lower on the driver's and passenger's sides than my car. This could potentially put them directly up against the floorpan. Every change I plan to make to my suspension between now and Spring relies on the headers riding no lower than the the oil pan. I'm using the same one(30955) that they had on their site.
Thanks,
Jim

[Vegas69]

You have to be careful when looking at all this info. You must add up the sum of the perspective engine mount & frame stand. There is only about 3/8 of an inch between the tallest and shortest. I have lowered body bushings on my car and plenty of clearance from the floor pans. I never had my engine in a stock frame. I sold the first set when I changed to the DSE sub.

[camrat68]

01somta-Any new information on this situation?

I just ordered my headers and spoke to Dan Lemon about your situation. I'm running a zero-decked 502 with Dart Pro-1 Platinum 325's in a stock front subframe. I'll guess we'll see in my case when they show up.........
Jim

[01somta]

All problems are solved, I called Dan at Lemons headers and he just sent me some mounts. The motor mount part number is PTP-7-505 at summitracing.com and frame stands are c 0029 8a and c 0029 7a in National Parts Depot catalog.

[1969CamaroRS]

If you could measure your old mounts and the new mounts, let us know what the difference was.

I just saw this post, was going to offer to measure, but glad things worked out. (I went through my own hell in fitting my Hookers).

[camrat68]

Yeah, I had to beat on my Hookers too.

OK, that sounded kinda..........wrong. ;)

Anyway, my Lemon's Headers showed up Friday and we test fit them over the weekend. The engine is still waiting on custom length pushrods and an induction system (EDL-35520) before it goes to the engine dyno and can then be installed in the stock subframe. So far, everything looks like it'll fit just fine. But I won't be able to really give any feedback until the engine is back in the chassis.

Jim

[Vegas69]

Probably going to need to go remote oil filter.

[camrat68]

I won't know for sure until the trans is attached and it's all into the car, but so far it seems like I have more room than I had with the Hookers. I guess we'll see in a couple of weeks........