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    Original Pozzi Cheap Big Brakes (from old board)

    Page 1. Note that I've edited this for a) readability (spelling, grammar, and the like), b) to remove some off-topic stuff that wasn't relevant to the thread and c) to correct links and images.
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    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 9
    (7/30/01 7:05 am)
    Reply Original pozzi cheap big brakes
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    I have settled on the cheap big brakes originaly thought of by David Pozzi. I just would like to get some details in order. I already have a set of complete drum spindles from my 67 and a complete disk spindles from a 69. All complete, all I did was pop the ball joints and cut the brake lines. I use the disk spindle, modify the disk bracket for a 70's truck brake caliper, use a 70's corvette rotor on the drum brake hub. Did anyone ever figure out what brake lines to use? Also I want to do rear disk brakes. Has anyone fiqured out a good rear brake swap? I want to stay away from the cost of new car components and I think I remember the Seville swap having some trouble with the emergency brake? Also if I do CBB front and rear brakes, what master cylinder do I use and what other valves do I need?
    mike

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 100
    (7/30/01 7:48 pm)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You could use the Corvette rear rotors on the rear too. The only problem is getting an emergency brake for it. Otherwise, I've heard the Seville or late 70's TA setup is not bad. The TA rotor might be larger.

    On the front brakes, watch out for caliper to upper A frame clearance. I've been told it's close.
    69 brake hoses might work, but they clamp to the upper A frame in the middle.
    There might be better choices out there like a Chevelle or Monte Carlo hose or something..
    For four wheel discs, use an adjustable proportioning valve in the rear line.
    Use a 1" bore master cyl for manual brakes, or use a 1 1/8" bore for power brakes. no other valves are needed. You can retain your brake warning switch block if you like.
    Aluminum master cyls from third gen may work well for a power brake setup. Take a look at an 88 chevy S-10 master cyl, for manual brakes. it has a 24mm bore which is 15/16" aprox. The problem with it is it does not have the deep hole in the rear for a manual pushrod. You can't drill it deeper either. Summit sells a Willwood dual piston master that might work.
    David


    keithq
    Registered User
    Posts: 106
    (7/30/01 8:06 pm)
    Re: Original pozzi cheap big brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Great info David.

    Regarding the late 70's TA brakes. I have them on my 68 conv. Firebird. They work well.
    A friend of mine put them on a 12 bolt, it was a direct bolt on.
    I have one sitting in my shop at wok right now, belongs to a friend. They are pretty cheap but a little tuff to come by.

    David do you have any master cylinder suggestions for 13" brakes on the front and 12" C4 on the rear? (96 Vette IRS.)

    I would like to run manual brakes and a late model aluminum master.

    Keith Quinn.


    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 10
    (7/31/01 6:03 am)
    70's vette brakes all around.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For my Camaro rear brakes would I use 70's Corvette front or rear rotors? What other hardware would I need? I have never really studied a rear disk setup on a 10 or 12 bolt axle before. What calipers would I use for the rear corvette rotors?

    Master Power has some bad stuff to say about Cadillac calipers. "If you are using Cadillac Eldorado rear calipers there are some important things you should know. One of the biggest advantages of a disc brake system is the fool proof self adjuster. Not so with this rear GM system. The rear calipers adjust off the parking brake. The parking brake is incorporated into the caliper. You must set the parking brake every time you park the car. The rear caliper pistons utilize a one way clutch inside the caliper piston. When the parking brake is applied the clutch senses when there is .030" or more clearence between the friction material and the rotor on the inboard side. When there is more than .030" the clutch turns inside the piston adjusting it out keeping the rear brakes adjusted. If you do not set your parking brake every time you will start to lose brake pedal (low and spongy) and the adjuster mechanism will not work any longer. Also: never use rebuilt calipers on the rear because the rebuilders use the old pistons and the pistons were the reason the caliper failed in the first place."

    I would probably set the parking brake anyway but I dont want to put parts with flawed designs on my car if I can help it. They say Cadillac Eldorado, but the Seville most likely uses the same caliper, right?

    Would the whole rear from a 70's Camaro fit my car? Is it the right width? I dont care about mounting pads becouse I moved my springs inboard and have to relocate the pads anyway. And most important is a 70's Camaro rear stronger than a first gen rear? I would like to stay with a 10 bolt for weight savings.

    The 4 wheel Corvette 11.75 inch brakes just sound good and should be pretty cheap. I dont know what rear caliper to use though and I need a parking brake. How much are those parking brakes that mount on the pinion in front of the axle?

    Master power (http://www.mpbrakes.com/mp8.htm) sells 4 different disc/disc master's. 1 1/8 power, 1 1/8 manual, 1 inch power, 1 inch manual. They all go for $120. Is this a good price? I think I can get a master much cheaper, I just have to know what car to get it for. I will be running power brakes. They also list a disc/disc combination valve kit for $150. All it does is proportion rear discs to front and have a warning light. I can see why you said I don't need it, but how will I split the front brake outlet to go to both the left and right wheels? Also what could I use for a brake warning light (make model and year of car) and how do I hook it up?

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 102
    (7/31/01 6:29 pm)
    Re: Original pozzi cheap big brakes
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    Keithq,
    Just about any passenger car master cyl would work, but you need a level reservoir for a manual setup. The third gen has an angled reservoir for power brakes, so that's out.
    The S10 MC is 15/16" bore and the quick take up design with a third larger piston at the rear. One inch diameter was used on the 1967 manual disc option Camaro.
    The fourth gen Camaro MC might work too, but I don't know the bore size.

    I've heard from one guy who said he has a manual brake first gen with "stock aluminum" bore MC, and the pedal effort is not bad with great pedal "feel".
    It might be because of the larger rotor radius creating more brake torque for a given foot pressure.

    A power brake system will work with almost anything, the booster makes up for any lack of power, cutting pedal pressure to almost a quarter of what it would be otherwise.
    A manual disc system is not as forgiving, it has to be pretty darn close or you will have a hard pedal, or too much travel resulting in a low pedal.

    The trouble with the aluminum master cyls is most are for a boosted system, and don't have a deep enough hole in the rear for a manual pushrod.
    I've heard there is some kind of guide for the pushrod used on second gen Camaros with manual brakes but have not seen what it looks like. You don't want that rod falling out!
    David

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 103
    (7/31/01 6:56 pm)
    Re: 70's vette brakes all around.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mikesz,
    The Corvette used a small pair of brake shoes which acted on the inside of the vette brake rotor. I hear the late chevy pickups with rear discs use this setup. Might be a future donor?
    The vette setup does not fit the bolt pattern of the Chev housing ends.
    They could be changed by cutting off and welding on new mounts to accept the vette caliper mount assy, but the vette caliper is heavy cast iron and not what we want.
    There are many racing mounts that weld on to the rear axle tube to mount racing calipers. No E brake though.

    The late third gen (88 up) and all fourth gen F bodys use the aluminum rear caliper which I think is better than the cast iron one.
    I had an 85 Z/28 and changed a rear adjuster which would not adjust. These are troublesome calipers and changing the piston is a pain to deal with.
    I had low pedal problems and finally traced it to a rear caliper adjuster.
    I suspect those calipers are the same as 79 or so Trans Am's and Sevilles.

    I'm going with a racing type of braking system on my 67. I'll use aluminum hat rotors similar in size and offset to the early vette rotors. I'll use four piston Willwood or somebody's calipers but bigger ones made for NASCAR or road racing use, not the tiny Willwood street stuff.
    I'll look into the willwood mechanical emergency brake calipers for the rear and will probably have to add a spacer to make them fit the wider rotors I will use. the mech calipers are only made for thin rotors.
    I am going to convert my 12 bolt to sealed bearing housing ends, racing axles.

    You can use your drum brake warning light block and it will function as a T fitting too. I think a hundred fifty is lot of money for a master cyl if it's cast iron.
    I paid two hundred for a replacement MC for a pickup (1 1/4" bore) but they are priced higher than passenger car parts. Cast iron Master cyls should be available for fifty bucks or so.
    David

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 17
    (8/1/01 5:37 am)
    corvette brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry for the long post before, I just read over it. The $150 was for a disc/disc combination valve kit!!! All it has is a most likely non adjustable prop valve and a warning light. The master cylinders went for a little more reasonable $119.

    How are the bores of the calipers supposed to compare to the bores of the master? Do you know the bore of a 70's truck or big car caliper? Are a 70's truck or big car caliper the same thing or different? If they are different I think I should go with a big car caliper because there is most likely more performance brake pads for it.

    I have never seen the Corvette emergency brake setup before, but I have seen it on a new Ford Explorer, I know I said the F word. But do you think that we could just use the emergency brake part and rotor of the Corvette setup? Its on every Corvette so the parts should be more plentifully than the Camaro JL8 option.

    I would imagine there is a small backing plate at the end of each axle tube. The plate could be centered on our axle and the holes redrilled to the ten and 12 bolt axle pattern. Drum brake shoes will move around a good deal so the plate will not have to be perfectly centered. Then the rear corvette rotor and maybe 70's big car or truck front calipers for the rear? I am not even going to begin to think up a caliper bracket that would work, that would just be a total shot in the dark.

    Again I have never seen the Corvette setup before. I have no idea what will fit where. I wonder if the Corvette e brake drum setup will fit between the end of the axle tube and the end of the actual axle on our cars? If there is too much room spacers could be placed behind the backing plate to center the brake shoes under the drum part of the rotor. If there is not enough space maybe the rotor could be spaced out some with a steel plate between it and the axle with longer wheel studs? Of course spacing the rotor out would affect rear track width, but hopefully not much.

    Do you have any suggestions about rear caliper brackets to start from? Something that would be as easy as spacing out 3/8 like the 69 Camaro bracket for the front brakes? The caliper will most likely have to be moved inboard though to fit over the rotor.

    Am I just driving myself crazy with this? Are the 70's Camaro brakes all that bad? I want something reliable and low maintenance over all else. And I want an emergency brake.
    thanks for your help and sorry for the long post, again
    mike

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 18
    (8/1/01 5:47 am)
    Corvette brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey wait a minute! The Camaro JL8 option was the Corvette brakes right? So the JL8 option probably used that rear drum E brake setup right??? So we atleast know it fits. Maybe somewone even reproduces that backing plate to make the system work for less than ten thousand dollars? With my luck the JL8 option probably used a different rear caliper with the E brake built in. Anybody know anything on this so I can stop guessing? If this works it would be a cheap easy to install killer brake setup. And david you could even use your Wilwood calipers. I'm sticking with the 70's calipers, though multi piston light units would be nice if someone wants to buy them for me
    mike

    TheDrip
    Registered User
    Posts: 10
    (8/1/01 6:52 am)
    Rear Calipers
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a 1980 Firebired with the WS6 Rear discs. They arent all that horribly bad, but I did choose to purchase new ones instead of trying to rebuild mine. Somewhere around $100usd I believe (each) for the calipers, then you still need to find backing plates. I'm trying to find a later model disc from something with the same offset from the hub face so I can just cut a new backing plate to match the larger diameter.. Really cheap big brakes in the back anyway.

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 19
    (8/1/01 7:15 am)
    rear brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You could just use 70's Corvette front rotors for the rear. A caliper bracket could be made to mount the caliper over the rotor. My big problem is finding a reliable caliper to fit this rotor, that has an emergency brake. I dont want to go too exotic or new on the rear calipers. I dont have to money to upgrade all my calipers and it will realy bother me if I have better calipers in back than I do in the front.

    If I can find a caliper to fit the Corvette rotor with an emergency brake I will use Corvette front rotors on all 4 wheels with the magic emergency brake caliper out back and 70's truck or big car calipers in front. If not I am going to try to run rear corvette rotors out back. According to David Pozzi they use a small drum brake setup for the emergency brake. I know newer Ford Explorers are set up this way and David Pozzi says newer Chevy trucks do to. I would then run 70's truck or big car calipers on all 4 wheels. This will be nice in case of trouble on the road, I could switch calipers and pads front to back. Not that I ever would, I'd just call triple A or hitch a ride and bring back parts and tools, but I could.

    mike

    TheDrip
    Registered User
    Posts: 11
    (8/1/01 8:05 am)
    Reply Re: Original pozzi cheap big brakes
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    The 79/80/81 Trans Am rear disc calipers have the parking brake built in. Kind of a screw in deal. I've had a caliper completely disassembled, and I'm still not 100% positive how it works. The new calipers seem to work great (havent tried the ebrake yet, I have a feeling I'm just going to snap a cable anyway). If the car is an automatic, I wouldnt worry so much about the parking brake, unless for some reason you have to pass a safety exam.

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 21
    (8/1/01 8:29 am)
    Pinion mounted E brake
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think ive got it. Does anybody know anything about an E brake setup that mounts to the axle. I saw a setup somewhere with a small disk and caliper mounted to the front of the axle. If this devise is not redicullasly priced I am really thinking about it. I could then run 63-82 corvette front rotors on all 4 corners. I could also run 70's big car or truck front calipers on all 4 corners. The rear bracket should not be to hard to come up with. The brakes could also be easily upgraded. Sumit sells slotted "powerstop" Corvette rotors for $95 each and ime sure you could get upgraded brake pads. You could even upgrade the calipers eventually too.
    mike

    TheDrip
    Registered User
    Posts: 12
    (8/1/01 8:56 am)
    Reply Re: Pinion mounted E brake
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    Theres also no reason why you couldnt run a baer 13 or 14" rotor with the same calipers until you could afford new ones. (Or whatever clears your wheels). This definately leaves a LOT of room for expansion, since it's just a matter of swapping rotors, and making a new caliper bracket front and rear (essentially just elongating the existing one by 1/2 the increase in rotor diameter). Cutting the brackets for a new rotor should be relatively simple as well. It's almost the perfect scaleable brake system. In fact, if you made the rear bracket two piece, one to attach to the axle flange, and then another piece which attaches to the first piece and the caliper, you SHOULD be able to completely change brake sizes (calipers & rotors) without even taking the front hub or spindle off, or the rear axles off. This sounds almost too good.

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 107
    (8/1/01 11:34 pm)
    Re: Pinion mounted E brake
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    The JL8 rear disc conversion used a special rear end housing with a different welded on flange to bolt up the vette caliper bracket. This vette bracket also mounts the small E-brake shoes that go inside the rotor.
    The four piston cast iron vette calipers were used on this setup.

    The best factory setup to look at would be the 88 up IROC or Z/28-TA rear calipers which were aluminum and hopefully a better design than the earlier brakes.
    I imagine the late vette calipers and rotors would be a similar type deal but maybe would not fit as easliy. I think the C4 to C5 vette rear calipers have the E brake on them something like the Camaro does.
    I think there are a lot of rear disc kits around, you just gotta look for 'em.
    David

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 23
    (8/2/01 5:35 am)
    Reply JL8 rear brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David do you have any info about the actual rear being any different? Maybe the width of the rear or the length of the actual axles. As long as the mounting flanges are the only change it would not be a problem. Hopefully they only put a corvette flange on a solid axle.

    All I am interested in would be the E brake. It uses a steel backing plate right? This back plate could be redrilled to fit the solid axle flange. What ever bracketry there is for the 4 piston caliper could be removed or modified to fit a 70's big car caliper. If there is no backing plate and the caliper as well as the E brake setup is held by a cast piece the swap becomes harder. Any info on this? If this swap works, it would be the perfect compliment to your cheap big front brakes.

    If I used the 88 up performance f car rear brakes I would have to use its smaller rear rotor right? I really would not mind that as long as I could keep a big front rotor. Also the 88 up caliper is a quick take up caliper. I would need a quick take up master, then I would need quick take up front calipers. So do you know a of a quick take up front caliper to fit over the big front rotor? I dont care If I dont really need quick take up front calipers, it would bother me if I had better and newer brakes on the rear than I do in the front.

    I might as well upgrade to the new Corvette stuff for the front. The 88 up performance F car rear brakes and rotors with a quick take up master and new Corvette front brakes and rotors. How rare were disk brakes on these cars though. I know 2 people with 89 TA's both with rear drum. And how new can I go for these rear brakes. 88-?? Also do you know how the rear axle width of a 3rd gen compares to a first gen?
    Thanks for the help, and for reading my long posts
    mike


    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 108
    (8/2/01 12:51 pm)
    Re: JL8 rear brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The early vette rear brake mount is cast iron and there isn't enough room to re drill it.
    You would have to cut off your backing plate flange and make a new one to match the vette bracket. Then find a caliper to mount on it or adapt something else.
    There are plenty of racing calipers with mounts that weld to the rear axle tube and mount single piston calipers. But, most don't have the flange ears on them to keep the caliper from rattling.
    I believe any GM brakes starting from 1980 or 1981 use the aluminum master cyl and are the low drag type which require the quick take up master cyl. The caliper pistons retract slightly more for less drag and require more mastercyl volume.

    I think the Seville rear rotors are pretty small, but the late third gen with aluminum calipers is of fair size and might be the same as late 70's firebird?
    I'm sure someone sells a kit for the third gen or fourth gen rear brakes.
    I really don't know anything about the late vette brakes, you might take a look at them, but Camaro and Firebird stuff is more compatable.
    David

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 27
    (8/2/01 4:47 pm)
    cheap big brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am trying to stay away from brake kits as I can get brake parts at cost and can make the brackets. I also dont have six hundred or so dollars per axle to spend on brakes. Master Power says quick take up became standard for gm in 82. I think I will research the 2nd part of my above post for brakes. To bad the Corvette E brake bracket is cast, it would have been nice.

    Thanks for your help, you have saved me a lot of time.
    mike

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 110
    (8/3/01 11:16 am)
    Reply
    Re: cheap big brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you are creative, you could make a bracket that mounts the vette E brake to your housing. I made one for my 67 because I already had a Guldstrand racing caliper bracket that mounted my vette caliper from the back side of the drum brake flange on the housing.
    The Guldstrand bracket is just a flat 3/8 thick plate. You could make one that would mount a Camaro or vette late caliper I would guess.
    I'd have to look and see but I think I have a template for the E brake brackets I made.
    I may keep my E brake brackets but change to a Wilwood caliper and rotor on the rear of my Camaro.
    David

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 29
    (8/6/01 4:07 am)
    rear brakes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The template for the rear E brake would be great. How are you going to change to Wilwood rotors? Is it a rotor designed to fit 70's Corvettes? Does it have the drum part molded in for the E brake?
    mike

    djake27
    Unregistered User
    (8/6/01 6:12 am)
    74 F body spindles on a 68
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I happen to have spindles from a 74 Firebird, these are taller than the stock 68 Camaro spindles I have, Can I correct for the taller spindle with shims in the upper control arm?
    If so the 74 is 1 piece front steer while the 68 is 2 piece rear steer can I just switch sides?

    mikesz
    Registered User
    Posts: 31
    (8/6/01 6:24 pm)
    try posting in suspension
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You will get a better response if you post this in the suspension section. I think I remember that if you reverse those spindles and put them on a first gen the brake caliper hits the swaybar. I also think that those are the same spindles Global We$t includes in their cat-5 kit, but modified to fix the brake swaybar problem.
    mike

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 117
    (8/6/01 10:20 pm)
    Re: 74 F body spindles on a 68
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The second gen spindle has a cast in steering arm on the opposite side of the caliper.
    It will fit on a Chevelle which is front steer, but not on a first gen Camaro because of the above problem, plus the steering arm is way too high for a first gen Camaro which has the steering arm as low as the lower ball joint.

    Mikesz,
    I'll have to dig up the template and scan it.
    The template is not perfect but close enough to work.
    The Wilwood calipers can mount off the rear of the brake flange on the rear end. The Wilwood rotors will require aluminum bolt on hats.
    The advantage is they are fairly cheap and have curved vanes.
    David

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 118
    (8/7/01 10:10 pm)
    Reply
    Re: 74 F body spindles on a 68
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mikesz,
    I have the template done. It is in a .jpg or PICT format whichever you can work with.
    Send me your E-Mail address and I'll send you the template.

    David

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 119
    (8/8/01 7:33 pm)
    EMERGENCY BRAKE BRACKET FOR EARLY VETTE REAR BRAKES
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is a photo of the rear end in my 67. It's been sitting a LONG time!
    The caliper is mounted on a separate flat adaptor plate sold by Guldstrand for racing use.
    My home made emergency brake bracket is mounted to the outboard side of the backing plate flange. You can see the remains of the vette splash shield between the shoes and the adaptor plate, I trimmed off the part of the shield that covered the rotor. You can see the head of the nail looking shoe anchor pin on the right hand side. The emergency brake lever is on the bottom because I had to invert the mounting to avoid the caliper bracket. This should allow the drum brake cables to be used in a forward pull, with a welded on anchor on the housing.
    David



    Edited by: davidpozzi at: 8/8/01 6:37:55 pm

    dlinson
    Registered User
    Posts: 11
    (8/9/01 6:28 am)
    Re: try posting in suspension
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The ackerman will be way off if you swap sides. When a car is designed with 100% ackerman that means that the lines that go from the spindle centerline through the outer tie rods meet at the center of the rear axle. This will keep both of the tires at the proper steer angles when turning around corners. If this is off, it will drag the inside tire around the turns. If you swap them, this will be way off. When you steer around a turn, the outside tire will turn much faster than the inside which is just the opposite of what you want.

    TheDrip
    Registered User
    Posts: 14
    (8/9/01 8:10 am)
    Re: try posting in suspension
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Really clean looking brake setup David. The picture might be a bit clearer if you tell us where we're looking at. I figure it's from underneath, but is it from the front or rear, and is it the passenger or driver side? Maybe I should be able to tell this, but I'm really getting dizzy trying to figure it out.

    mikesz
    Unregistered User
    (8/9/01 10:58 am)
    Reply lots of stuff
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David
    You've been letting me ramble on with various crack pot ideas and you have already done this? Well good job, it looks great. Did you ever have it working? If I can get that E brake working I would use a 70's car caliper back there. I'm on a tight budget and I havent looked yet, but I think I can get them for less then $15. Getting the E brake parts is a different story. I will have to start watching E-bay. Do you think you can pull the drum/rotor off so I can see the actual workings of the E-brake?

    We are looking sort of from under the car, you can tell by the bracket in the left of the picture, it's the bottom bracket for the U bolts, the thing the shocks bolt to. I would guess he is on the right rear of the car laying on the floor under the trunk becouse there would be more room to the rear to take this picture.

    David, just how cheap is your Wilwood setup going to be? What is a curved vane? How will you use an E-brake? You used the magic word to get my attention, cheap.

    thanks for your help
    mike


    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 120
    (8/9/01 12:33 pm)
    Re: lots of stuff
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, that's looking at the right rear looking forward from under the gas tank.
    I never hooked up the brake cables. It looks like the drum brake cables might work using a welded on anchor for them.
    I will have all the rear stuff off later. I am going to re do everything in the rear and probably mini tub it too.
    If you get the vette bracket with all the parts and caliper, etc. You could just cut off the drum brake bracket and weld on a new one that will accept the vette parts.
    This is how the JL8 housings were converted by GM. So you would have a JL8 rear end when done. The only disadvantage is the four piston calipers which are kinda heavy.
    Another way is if you did a separate E brake bracket like I did, you could buy a circle track weld on bracket for the single piston pickup/big car caliper. The bracket would weld onto the housing tube.

    I felt at the time that I didn't want to make the new weld on flange, so I bought the Guldstrand bracket that bolts to the drum brake flange.
    Later, I got the bright idea to make my own E brake bracket, but never got it hooked up. I was autocrossing the car mostly and only driving it on the street occasionally. With a four speed and wide ratio trans, and 4.56 gears, I could just put it in first gear when parking. After that, I parked the Camaro and went vintage racing.
    Here is a link to my new rear suspension page. I just uploaded a couple of new brake photos to it. ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/rear_suspension.htm
    David

    pdq67
    Registered User
    Posts: 13
    (8/26/01 3:41 pm)
    Rear disc e-brake!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why don't everybody take a look over at TSM's bolt-on rear disc kit's and all the other stuff they have in their catalog!!

    TSM, 9635 Hwy. 85 #1, Littleton, CO, 80125, 1-303 795-5259. (Hope this is current??).

    I think they have a rear disc e-brake setup that bolts a small disc to the rear u-joint area on the rear housing along w/ a very small manual caliper that is cable operated so that you have an e-brake.

    Their cat. shows various backing plate axle flange factory bolt dimensions to help in making custom caliper brackets, too.



    They even have a custom full-on 9" IRS if anyone is interested in something really different!

    Their "kit's" for rear disc brakes seem like good deals, too. pdq67


    noels69
    Registered User
    Posts: 3
    (8/29/01 7:54 am)
    Guldstrand bracket.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David,

    I had a couple of questions on the Guldstrand bracket you used. What rear axle can it be used for and what caliper? I'm assuming they still make the bracket... I would love to find a way to use over the counter pieces for the rear discs, the brackets remain the challenge.

    Bye the way, I appreciate the email you sent me a while ago on the TA brake rotors!

    Noel

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 133
    (9/1/01 6:32 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Guldstrand bracket.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Noel,
    The Guldstrand type caliper mount plate is flat 3/8" and you could make your own very easily.
    It fits any 10 or 12 bolt rear end. It bolts to the back side of the brake drum flange.
    There is no emergency brake feature on this plate.

    A Wilwood caliper could be substituted for the vette caliper. The circle track vendors sell similar bolt on and weld on brackets for the Wilwood caliper which has a 3.5" mount spacing.
    David

    Sam1970
    Registered User
    Posts: 1
    (11/4/01 12:47 am)
    Corvette E-Brake
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    After reading everyone's comments on using the corvette brakes let me add my 2 cents. As I am fixing to begin work on a '70 Camaro pro-touring car and I am currently the owner of a '72 restored Corvette, I would not even consider using the Corvette rear rotors. In fact, the very first thing I ordered was a four wheel rotor/caliper set from Baer. During the restoration of the vette, i had to rebuild the parking brakes, after about 12 hours (per side) and 60 points on my blood pressure I was finally able to get them back together. If you do decide to use the Corvette rotors, before you do anything else, rebuild the e-brake and use stainless steel hardware so that you NEVER have to do it again. I hope you have much more luck than I did.

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 203
    (11/4/01 11:46 am)
    Re: Corvette E-Brake
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    sam1970,
    Thanks for your input. The early vette E-Brake can be difficult - mine were not hard at all, because they were in good shape.
    But later calipers like the third gen Camaro firebird units can be tough too. At least they can be exchanged for rebuilt units.
    One thing I am running into is that there are no E-Brakes for rotors that are 1 1/4" thick X 12.19".
    David

    pdq67
    Registered User
    Posts: 27
    (11/16/01 7:50 pm)
    Reply xx
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David,

    What do the 1.25" x 12.19" rotors fit? Are they the OEM JL-8's? pdq67

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 222
    (11/17/01 11:33 am)
    Reply
    Re:rotors
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The 12.19 X 1.25" rotors are fairly standard size NASCAR stock car rotors.
    I plan on getting those in a HD curved vane with aluninum hats, putting them on Camaro drum hubs in the same way as the JL8 was done, but use aluminum calipers.
    David

    jon sikora
    Registered User
    Posts: 18
    (12/2/01 4:50 pm)
    Reply Re: Re:rotors
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do you think that 12.19 will fit in a 15 in. wheel? I have a Wilwood set up with 4 piston for 12 bolt,which I was going to install when I find a 12 bolt,but they look mighty big.

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 242
    (12/2/01 11:23 pm)
    Re: Re:rotors
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jon,
    It's looking pretty tight with my wheels. The ID of my wheels is around 14" (15" dia rims) and the caliper I'm mocking up is an old JFZ with a shape of the small Wilwood calipers. It looks like it will clear.
    From drawings some of the larger Wilwood calipers look like they will clear but just barely, maybe an eighth inch clearance.
    A rotor size of around 12" or 11.8" would be a better fit. I may order the 12.19" rotors and turn them down a bit if too tight.
    David

    jon sikora
    Registered User
    Posts: 78
    (2/11/02 9:54 am)
    Re: Re:rotors
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The 12.19/4 piston'dynalite' do fit in my 15" wheels,plenty of space

    Rick Dorion
    Registered User
    Posts: 38
    (2/11/02 11:01 am)
    good news
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jon, have you installed them in the front? This is great news for those of us using 15".

    jon sikora
    Registered User
    Posts: 80
    (2/11/02 2:18 pm)
    Reply Re: good news
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No, but I think it is very possible. I have a Wilwood catalog, and am trying to work the soft squish thing in my head. 12.19 dia 1.25 thick curved vane rotors would be my goal. they make a h.d. kit, but it uses 11.75 dia. rotors with a 6.5" bolt circle, most of the 12.19 are 7" bolt circle. The clearance issue in the front may be ball joint or tie rod.

    PT68
    Unregistered User
    (3/29/02 7:55 am)
    Reply Rear Goodies
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Regarding the late 70's TA brakes. I have them on my 68 conv. Firebird. They work well.
    A friend of mine put them on a 12 bolt, it was a direct bolt on".

    Is this indeed true? With the 72 Nova 10 bolt rear in my 68 I can go a salvage yard buy all the rear "stuff" and it is a direct bolt in?Furthermore will mid to late 90's F car rear disk set up brackets and all bolt right in?

    David, I did find that the conversion kit I bought from SSB use 84-86 Mustang SVO rotors and or 82-89 Lincoln for there rear conversion kits along with 87-88 T-bird turbo coupe calipers (varga) make. Auto specialties in Cali crossed the rotor casting number that identified the application.

    The odd thing is when I tried to match these at my local parts store I found that they were identical except for one small thing. The OD of the SSB rotor is about 7/8 smaller than the Bendix replacement rotor.

    The give away.... all rotors have a cooling fin placement that falls about 1/8 to 1/4 below surface of the rotor OD everything equal, the SSB rotor fins are flush with the OD.

    If I were to take a set of the Bendix replacements and turn down the OD on a lathe 7/8 of an inch I would have a perfect match for the SSB rotors and the cooling fins on the bendix rotors would be flush. Is this what SSB is doing? That is why I am having problems with the lip forming on the inner pad from wear. Also the 4 3/4 bolt pattern is being added to the SSB rotors no biggie.


    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 332
    (3/30/02 10:29 pm)
    Re: Rear Goodies
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    pt68,
    sounds like you have done some good detective work.
    I wonder why they didn't just use the rotor full size and mount the caliper out a bit?
    Maybe it would be too big for smaller wheels than the Mustang uses.
    David

    PT68
    Unregistered User
    (4/1/02 7:18 am)
    Reply ???
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Regarding the late 70's TA brakes. I have them on my 68 conv. Firebird. They work well.
    A friend of mine put them on a 12 bolt, it was a direct bolt on".

    Is this indeed true? With the 72 Nova 10 bolt rear in my 68 I can go a salvage yard buy all the rear "stuff" and it is a direct bolt in? Furthermore will mid to late 90's F car rear disk set up brackets and all bolt right in?

    Just curious.

    Thanks in advance

    Rene Kooger
    Registered User
    Posts: 46
    (4/1/02 8:29 am)
    Re: 15" wheels w/12.19 wilwood rotor
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, you soeagertodriveon15inchwheelsguys, the 12.19" wilwood rotor will fit 15" wheels in combination with the Dynalite calipers. You can even buy a complete set from http://www.superiorspindles.com/camarowbrake6769.htm with normal or 2" dropped spindles.

    Good luck guys,
    Rene

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 334
    (4/6/02 12:26 am)
    Re: Rene
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is the superior spindle with 12" rotors, really measure 12" or is it slightly smaller?
    David

    Rene Kooger
    Registered User
    Posts: 64
    (4/6/02 11:33 am)
    Re: Rene
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    12.19" for sure David. I measured it again today to be absolutely sure. It came to nearly 310mm.

    Rene

    *****ncamaro
    Unregistered User
    (5/4/02 6:35 am)
    Superior spindles willwood
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I checked into the Wilwoods from Superior Spindles. Unfortunately they are only .81'' thick. The Wilwood calipers look great but they don't have any dust seals so they would have to be dissasembled on a regular basis.
    Stainless Steel Brakes makes a caliper similar to the JL8 but in aluminum. Their full kit goes for $1600, I'll price the calipers separetly and post it.

    firstgen69
    (3/23/03 2:49 pm)
    drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am having a problem with my conversion. I installed a disc brake setup(13") from a 95 Corvette up front of my 69 Camaro (drum spindle), 95 Camaro rear disc in the rear.
    I purchased a master cylinder 8" booster from Master Power and a factory brass combination valve. I have a problem stopping the car. When I first apply the brake I can feel the brakes applying , but when I really try to get on the brakes the pedal feels hard. I have 18 to 20" of vacuum and I am using a canister. I have tried putting the brake pedal on both upper and lower holes on the brake pedal. I am wondering about the adjustment at the brake pedal to booster. What is the proper way to adjust it.(length etc...). Any help would be appreciated.

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 678
    (4/1/03 5:57 pm)
    Re: drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Later brake calipers have smaller piston area than the old stuff. You need something like a 15/16" bore master cylinder. What size do you have now?
    David

    firstgen69
    (4/2/03 6:26 pm)
    drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 1/8 inch bore. It came with the booster from master power.

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 679
    (4/4/03 11:33 pm)
    Re: drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Baer supplies a 15/16" master for power brake Camaros. I've heard you need more like a 7/8" for manual brake use.
    David

    firstgen69
    (4/5/03 8:07 pm)
    drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I got a master cylinder from an 86 Corvette which has a 15/16 bore. I just can't seem to find 1 of the fittings to adapt it. It is a 12x1.00mm thread. Not easy to find locally.

    HOTCHKIS CHEVELLE
    Posts: 234
    (4/5/03 10:30 pm)
    Re: drum to disc conversion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Give Baer a call-they can probably sell you a fitting. Ed

    newbe
    (4/7/03 7:01 pm)
    86 vette MC
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On the 86 Vette MC what line go where?
    There are three ...
    Thanks
    Newbe

    FIRSTGEN69
    Posts: 1
    (4/8/03 7:31 pm)
    86 vette mc
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are only two on mine, and they are marked front and rear. Anyway. The master won't bolt onto my booster. Back to the drawing board. I gotta find out what kind of car the master cylinder that BAER sell you comes from...

    Newbe
    (4/9/03 8:46 pm)
    86 vette mc
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why it won't bolt onto your booster?
    The end too big ....
    the bolt hole in the wrong place....
    Newbe

    Newbe
    (4/9/03 9:28 pm)
    86 vette mc
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let see if I can get a pic up here http://www.rockauto.com/ref/Cardone/104001.jpg

    FIRSTGEN69
    Posts: 2
    (4/11/03 8:18 pm)
    86 vette mc
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The upper hole is for a switch that screws into it. I am guessing that is a rebuilt unit. I got a new unit and it came with the reservoir and the switch.

    Newbe
    Unregistered User
    (4/12/03 1:37 pm)
    Reply 86 vette mc
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes it is a rebuilt unit and that why the top hole.
    Thanks
    Newbe
    Last edited by David Pozzi; 01-02-2010 at 07:59 PM.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Central CA USA
    Posts
    6,086
    Country Flag: United States

    manual master cyl bore size

    UPDATE:

    I tried a fiew different sized master cyls on my wife's 73 Camaro with baer 13" track kit. ft piston bores are 38mm.

    The brake pedal ratio is the same as a first gen at 6.25 to 1 for manual brakes.
    We have tried cast iron master cyls, 15/16", 7/8", and now 13/16", the 13/16" is an early 70's Ford manual application with outlets on the engine side of the MC.

    The brakes will lock with somewhat high pedal effort. With the other master cyls, I had to stand on the brakes and could barely get them to lock at all. I feel like I need one size smaller but haven't been able to find a 3/4" bore master cyl yet.
    This size works on the street, but if I were to drive on an open track day, the pedal effort required would be tiring after a while. It might be that once the brakes warm up on the track the effort would be lower and it would be OK.
    David
    67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.