Rear Seat Engineering (from old board)

[derekf]

Rear seat engineering
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OK, so I have floors now (mostly ... rear passenger footwells aren't quite done). I made a trial fit of my old rear seat back ... and it needs a lot of help. My re-located wheelwells and floor really keep the stock seat back from fitting easily. Not only that, but the frame has substantial rust on it. To make it work will involve significant cutting and repair. I can do that, but I'm wondering if there is an easier way.

Anybody know anything (or know of somebody that knows something) about seat frames or might have a line on material for seat frames? Perhaps a chapter out of a book on the subject?

Thanks for any help!

John Parsons

DLinson
Registered User
Posts: 6
(7/23/03 10:58 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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John,

As you can imagine, the factory seat is not an option for my Nova. I talked to this company that makes street rod seats, Wise Guys Seats and Accessories, www.wiseguys-seats.com.

They have the foam seat backs and bottoms that I am going to get for mine. I think the rear seat was going to be $75 for the foam peices. I'll have the interior shop make covers for them after I massage the foams to fit the rear seat. The Wise Guys' rep I met at a show told me what to do to cut it down and fit my application.



parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 939
(7/23/03 11:12 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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Hey Dennis!

Thanks. I just left them a message. Carving something out of foam would be ideal, I think. My floor is hardly flat or easy to adapt an oem seat. But it is a family requirement to have a back seat ...

jp

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 962
(7/30/03 6:05 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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I ordered Wise Guys' adjustable universal rear seat yesterday. It comes complete with frame and foam. The part that really sold me was that it also includes government approved (SFI?) built in 3 pt shoulder harnesses, and a middle lap belt. That's one engineering task I won't have to do, though I will have to cut the seat frame a bit for the best possible fit.

I've been impressed with them over the phone ... I'm expecting the seat to be just as good.

jp

DLinson
Registered User
Posts: 7
(7/30/03 10:57 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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John,

Do they have a picture of that seat on the web? If not, could you send me a picture of what it looks like? I was just considering the foam and engineering the mounts myself, but if the frame is close, I'd use it.

Thanks,
Dennis


parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 969
(7/30/03 7:57 pm)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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Dennis,

No. They don't have a pic of that seat on their website. As soon as it arrives, I'll take some pics and send them via email. My guess (just from looking at pics on your website) is that this is what you'll want too.

jp

keithq
Registered User
Posts: 638
(8/12/03 12:41 pm)
Reply Rear seat.
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Hey John.

another guy with kids here who needs a rear seat, send me a few pics too.

Keith Quinn.


jeffandre
Registered User
Posts: 431
(8/12/03 4:38 pm)
Reply Me Too!
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John,
When you get a chance to send pics please send me some too. [email protected]

Thanks,
Jeff

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 996
(8/13/03 6:00 pm)
Reply back seat is here
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The UPS truck backed into my driveway and turned off the ignition ... and it was my seat. It is well engineered and I'm looking forward to putting in the seat mounts, etc. Unfortunately, the 3 point harnesses are back-ordered so they haven't shipped yet. Look for pics of the main seat frame in a day or so. I'll send 'em out to you guys via email, then I'll post 'em here.



jp

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1047
(8/27/03 7:18 pm)
Reply Back seat pics and observations
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Here are a couple of pics of the rear seat frame I bought from Wise Guys Seats.




The seat frames are well made and would fit the bill nicely for me if I had a flat floor. But I don't so I'm gonna have to modify these some (what else is new?). That's really ok, since I had no idea how to make seat frames and now I do. The sides of the frame slide into the center section to make them adjustable, and the pivot point is designed to allow you to change the angle as well. The corners of the seat back have mounting brackets for their 3 point harness assembly, which I'll be getting soon. I've decided to use silver for the belt color (choices are black, tan, blue, silver, charcoal, and burgundy) which I hope will work with gray and blue leather seats.

I'm going to get rid of the hinge assembly and bolt the bottom and back in separately. I'm also going to cut off the excess tube from inside the slider tube and weld the whole thing solid so I can be worry free about rattles and such. I also have to cut and weld the sides of both the bottom and back to fit around my wheelwell. But all in all, I don't regret buying this frame ... it will provide a nice starting point.

John Parsons



Edited by: parsonsj at: 8/27/03 7:19 pm

jeffandre
Registered User
Posts: 439
(8/28/03 7:09 am)
Reply Sweet!
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John,
Looks like it will be fairly easy to work this frame into nearly anything you want. I can't wait to see a few pics of the frame only install. I may go this route instead of working with two separate bottom frames.

Jeff

MarkM68
Registered User
Posts: 868
(8/28/03 7:36 am)
Reply .
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Another option is just to make the entire rear seat out of foam. You can use different densities of foam to get the right feel, shape them anyway you want, etc.

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1048
(8/28/03 8:41 am)
Reply Foam
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Quote:
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make the entire rear seat out of foam
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That's how the rear seat in the Twister Camaro is done. I talked with Kyle about how to do that and he said the upholsterer really did all the work after he put in plywood "boundaries" for the seat.

The neat thing about this frame is that I have foam that comes with it ... as long as it is mostly about the same as the original intent of the frame, I've got all the foam figured out. I'd just have to have seat covered. And the seatbelt issues are resolved this way too. In my case having the seatbelts done for me was a big plus.

jp

MarkM68
Registered User
Posts: 872
(8/28/03 10:22 am)
Reply .
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My parents have an upholstery shop. They usually either modify existion seat frames, or make it all out of foam. Small seats work well when making them out of foam. But I wouldn't do it like that on say a '57 Chevy. Not enough support.

I'm going to make my backseat out of foam. After putting in the C-4 buckets, there's not enough leg room for passengers. The backs of the c4 seats are much thicker then stock. I never have passengers, so the motivation to do that back seat just isn't there, .

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1053
(8/28/03 10:35 am)
Reply Insider
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Quote:
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My parents have an upholstery shop
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Oh yeah? I'm sure I'll be needing some seat springs to make this frame work right ... can I get 'em through you?

jp

MarkM68
Registered User
Posts: 873
(8/28/03 10:50 am)
Reply .
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Possibly. I could check. Just let me know what you're looking for. Where are you from? You can email me what you need too, [email protected]

It's funny, I've been around interiors my whole life, but it never really sparked my interest to learn how to do it . Maybe because it's a pain in the ass, .



keithq
Registered User
Posts: 667
(8/29/03 7:42 pm)
Reply Rear seat.
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Hey John.

The seat looks good, thanks for the pics.
I need to figure out my seatbelts still.
I think I am going to get my chassis guy to make me a chromolly tube frame for the seat and then just use some foam for the seating area. I will have to go see the guy that is doing the rear seat to get his opinion.

Keith Quinn.


parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1097
(9/9/03 5:20 am)
Reply Rear seat: update
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Ok, I have a new upper (seat back) frame that fits nicely. Some cutting and welding made a believer out of it. Same with the seat bottom, it will quickly succumb to the greater force of the seat frame fabricator (me).

Next question: the 3 pt seat belt assemblies are designed to attach to the floor and the "free length" of the belt is designed that way too. So in the back when I attach the retractor to the roll cage, and the one side of the belt to the floor (2 of the 3 attach points), the belt won't be tight and flush against the seat when it's not in use. While it will be ok when someone is actually buckled in place, I can't have those loose belts flopping around back there.

The fix is to shorten the belt by cutting it off and re-sewing the attachment clip closer to the retractor. I'd say 8-10 inches would be about right. Anybody know where I might be able to get that done? Wise Guys won't .... they say it is easy and is done all the time but they won't for liability reasons.

I'd really like to be able to keep and use these retractors ... they work just like a modern car: then the car is tipped or the belt comes out fast it locks in place, otherwise it allows the belt to move with the person. Nicely engineered too. Just too much strap that doesn't retract.

thanks!
jp


Edited by: parsonsj at: 9/9/03 5:22 am

d touring
Registered User
Posts: 521
(9/9/03 10:06 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat: update
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Looking good John!!
Got anymore pics of them. It will be hard to find somebody to resew the seatbelts as you said the Liability issue. But dont give up there is somebody out there that will do them an do them right.
David 69 pro-tour camaro

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1137
(9/19/03 10:16 pm)
Reply Next question
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OK, got the upper mounts for the seat back done. I'm happy with that.

Now for an engineering question: will a single shear setup be
enough steel to hold the bottom of the seat back in place? It will have a 1/2" bolt, and the bolt ears are made of 3/16 thick
steel. Or do I need to double shear it with two 3/16 ears pinching one 3/16 ear?

In other words, I have a 3/16 ear (or flange) sticking up from the frame rail and going parallel with it. It is about 1 1/2 inches high, and it has a 1/2 bolt hole perpendicular to the frame. The seat back frame has a 3/16 ear sticking down with 1/2 bolt hole also perpendicular to the frame rail. Then (obviously) a 1/2 bolt goes through the two ears and holds the lower portion of the seat back frame in place. One of these setups is on each side of the car in the bottom left and right of the seat back frame.

My question is if the seat back frame should have two ears on either side of the frame ear, or is one ear on one side good enough?

Geez, I hope that made some sense.

Thanks as always!

jp


nancejd
Registered User
Posts: 34
(9/20/03 9:49 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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Seems like it would be enough to me John. The bolt is only going to secure the seat itself, it's the seatbelt mounts that secure the occupants.

parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1140
(9/21/03 4:19 am)
Reply Re: Rear seat engineering
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Actually, the plan was to secure the center lap belt and the 3 pt belt anchor points to the upper seat frame.

But I changed the design and now all the seat belt mount points are to welded tabs on the frame or cage. So I went with single shear mounts.

This rear seat and harnesses has been a big fabrication job. I'm almost done ... hopefully I can finish today. Then I'll post some pictures.

jp


parsonsj
Registered User
Posts: 1162
(9/28/03 6:44 am)
Reply Got some pics up
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I started a "Construction pics" thread with rear seat fabrication photos in Open Discussion. You can get there by clicking here: pub186.ezboard.com/fproto...2386.topic

(Note: the referenced thread has been deleted by ezboard)

jp