Push Button Start with Passive Device Key wanted

[JohnC]

What's wrong with the Flaming River one??? Looks pretty cool.

John

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/...y=OrderItemAdd

[James OLC]

that thing sucks!!!

Which one are you refering to?

[Jimmy Sean]

Which one are you refering to?

I thought he was refering to this one?

No trick remotes but effective.
http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/w...cessories.html

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I think mattyb was refering to one I posted a link to and not the Flaming River one.

[matty b]

yeah the watson one is horrible. I installed in a 68 camaro that I finished and is gone. Ill post the schematic later but the components used are a VW beetle (aircooled beetle) headlight relay and a regular bosch relay. The switch they use is a Bulgin Vandal push button switch used in custom desktop computers. They can be found for 20 dollars all over the internet. I was very upset with how they represented it to work and once I had it they said, "well you can add a second button for accesorie circuits". I said whats the point of that? If you have two switches you can acomplish the same thing for the cost of the switches. The circuit is a waste of money though and doesnt work correctly, I dont like that you have to start the car as soon as you get in it, especially if you want to power up the car to test things. The Flaming River setup appears to be the best way to go since it does in fact have a passive key and antennae so you dont have to do anything except get in the car and go.

[James OLC]

thanks for the clarification. I am trying to get more information regarding the Flaming River piece and will share if I can find anything.

[cpederslie]

Matty,
I'd like to get a copy of the schematic and any other details you can provide on the Watson's setup. I'd rather not cough up the $$$ that watson wants for it, it can't be that hard of a setup. Besides, this type of setup would be perfect in the bare bones basic 29 Roadster I'm building. No need for an ACC or anything else.

Thanks,
Chad

[matty b]

Ok I have not held the Flaming River kit in my hand so I cant tell you for sure but from the looks of it, it is a doorlock module out of a GM vehicle with passive key technology like a caddilac or c6 vette. These modules are pretty cool and not all that expensive. I got one for 104 dollars my cost from the dealership. You do need the antennaes and a fob that adds to the cost plus a schematic and the abilty to adapt it but it has the abilty to control the doorlocks and also controls the ignition switch. Programming it is handled directly through the modul and a main antennae which in the c6 is in the glove box. You stick it in there and preform a key on and off procedure to program the fob and your done. I dont sell Flaming River parts and I dont normally promote their products but considering that they have it available now and I have no intention of selling them anytime soon. I was suggesting it since it does what the original poster asked for as far as function is and there is no back engineering any OEM components. When I get to wiring my car Ill be sure to show off the way I did it along with alot of other prototype stuff that I have been developing at my company and am going to test in my personal chevelle. Till then thats all the info I can give as far as FR is concerned as well as any info on OEM stuff

[Stupidnewbie]

I'm doing something similar in my Firebird, but I'm also using an alarm/remote start system from Electric Life. This is my plan:

I will be shaving my door handles, so I have no real need for electric door locks. I suppose the keyfob could auto-pop the door when I approach, but that would happen every time I came close to my car. That would get annoying very quickly. So I plan to pop the doors via my remote. I am considering using the Ebay RFID system and placing the sensor inside my center console so that the keyfob will sit directly over it while driving. I will use the RFID to enable a push-button switch on the dash. This will prevent the RFID system from shutting off the car should the keyfob go out of range and will also allow the remote start to work regardless of the RFID.

I found the Bulgin switches for very cheap HERE.

My only problem now is trying to get one button to do everything. I would like the first push to go to "on," the second to start the car, and the third to shut it off. Any suggestions?

[Young Gun]

I know BMW uese that technology, pretty neat stuff...probly could source the stuff from a dealership...or a wrecked one

[matty b]

My only problem now is trying to get one button to do everything. I would like the first push to go to "on," the second to start the car, and the third to shut it off. Any suggestions?

I have a schematic that I attempted to put together that does just that but either I messed up assembling it or its no good. http://that.homepage.dk/PDF/PB_Start.pdf a guy on an electronics website made the schematic for me so you can play with it if you want. I think I messed up building since the schematic itself makes sense if you know it. It uses a decade counter and a flip flop to debounce the button. If you dont know anything about IC's dont even try to make heads and tails of it since I dont feel like explaining how it all works. If you do you probably could whip it together and try it out.

[MrQuick]

hey Matt, on that Watson unit....is the latching relay the primary or secondary initiator? Can you send me a picture of the schematic for it? thanks dude.

[matty b]

all the latching relay does is click over to ignition relay ones you release the button the first time. The starter relay is the other relay they include so it functions as so.. press and hold button and the starter engages release button and it click over to just the ignition relay. More or less you activate the latching relay as soon as you press the button but the contacts wont swap over until you take your finger off the button so I guess its the secondary actuator if that what you want to call it. Keep in mind that you have to add on an ignition relay capable of carrying the entire load of the vehicle through it. When I installed it I seperated the ignition and accesorie circuits on to two seperate relays so that I wouldnt have to put a constant duty solenoid in the car. If you dont do this then you will have to find a relay capable of AT LEAST 70 amps if you have alot of stuff powered off of the key. I circumvented alot of that by relaying a good portion of the circuits on the vehicle so I was more or less only having to carry the load of the dash and radio. I know that 99% of the guys on this site barely know how to solder correctly let alone design a complete vehicle electrical system that takes this into consideration and keeps the load off of these relays in order to keep the car safe. Ive considered putting it on the web and a few people PMd me about it and I really dont want to just because my name will be associated with that if anyone searches for it. Being that I am so opposed to how it functions, I have an issue justifying to myself just how helpful Im actually being by posting it. You truthfully would be better off having someone fabricate the circuit that I posted above. It would work like an OEM circuit in every way and it is solid state logic controlled so there are no moving parts in the unit to fail. I again want to say that the watsons setup is far from desireable and any of you guys wanting it for free will pay for it anyways when you find out that it doesnt work well and that you spent a grip on relays to make it function in the first place. Beleive me that Im not trying to keep this a secret just to be a **** but I dont think it would be right to tell someone how to build something that I know is poor in design just to appease you. Its on the same level as if I was to tell someone how to design a suspension system that I knew didnt function correctly at all and had horrible design flaws built into it or if I suggested to buy an engine part that I knew would cause you to lose horsepower just because it looked "cool". I have somewhat of a conscious to not let guys unwhittingly modify their cars for the worse it just isnt right regardless of how bad you want it.

[Fesler built]

Funny you had a problem with this, I use them all the time and love them, they work awesome just as stated......
You push once and get ignition you push and hold for a second it starts and goes back to ignition, you push again and it turns off. Seems pretty easy to me..... The relays are for the start system so you dont have to add any in there like all the other systems these guys are talking about up here. If anyone would like to know more about this PM me I sell them and they work perfect if put in correctly.

that thing sucks!!! I installed one in a camaro recently and was very pissed off with how it works. When you press the button, the starter engages right away and then reverts to the igniton on position. If you want the scematic on making one and the parts list you can build your own for over half the cost of what they are selling it for. IMO its not worth the hassle to hook it up not to mention you have to wire up a bunch of relays to make it work and you lose the ACC postion of your igntion switch. Avoid that product completely

[matty b]

um they dont work like that at all. Start engages as soon as you press the button from the off position, release the button and it goes to ignition only press again for off. Call watsons yourself if you think Im making this up. You do not press it once for ignition and a second time for the starter to engage. If it worked like that I would not be making an issue about it. If you can prove to the contrary Id love to see it on a little youtube video. Im not gaining anything by saying that its an inferior design and believe me when I say that I had a less than productive conversation with the people over there. If they worked so great Id throw em in every car I could. However, I think Id be doing my customers a diservice by installing one of these POS things in their car. They rank right up there with clear distributor caps and whistler tips. Word to the wise out there, if you want a push button ignition switch that functions like an OEM style you wont get it with the watson setup I dont care who says it. PS I dont know if youre implying that I dont know how to install one these things but if you are I challenge you to show me how it works as you state with the setup they use. All I do day in and day out is custom electrical systems on muscle cars and street rods so I think I have a bit of expierience in this area of automotive construction. Ill say it again, call Watsons directly and ask them how it works it is not how Mr. Fesler is representing them.

BTW their site backs me up on it

http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/w...cessories.html

Put your Ignition Switch and Starter all into one unit. This gorgeous chrome recessed switch is 3/4" diameter and has a blue LED ring to indicate when the ignition is "On". *****>>>>Push and hold the button while the starter turns over and release when the engine starts. The ignition stays "On". Push again to stop the engine<<<<*****. You've seen it on new, top-end luxury cars... now it can be on your
ride, too.

Mr Fesler if you are attempting to profit on misinforming potential customers then you have a problem. Its pretty unethical to out and out say that something functions in a completely different way than it really does especially when the manufacturer publishes the information on their own website that states the contrary to what you are saying. Im gonna let it go at that and Ill go ahead and post up the schematic tomorrow so at least you guys can save yourself a bit of cash than buying this garbage for retail price.

[fairlane347]

I think the Flamming River Kit is really nice, its more advanced than just a switch. I work for the company that came up with this new system. We showed it on the 32 Ford at SEMA 2007 and it was on "Two Guys Garage" tv show. This system is all brand new, yes I thought the price was a bit high, but there is not much out there like this. Our kit has NO keys at all, only a fob to start the car.

[matty b]

ok heres the drawing i made. The 4 pin part is the standard bosch relay and the other part is the latching relay. The little arrow looking thing is a diode and if you build it the stripe on the diode goes towards the latching relay. The lead that says ignition is a trigger lead to the igniton relay. The switch legs go on either sides of a normally open momentary switch. the start leg is a 12
gauge wire as is the battery leg. This is all im providing so please dont ask any questions about how to make it. Im doing this as a favor to the guys that are willing to spend 130 bucks on this. Youll probably be in it about 45 bucks for everything.

[viper11]

am still looking for a passive ignition device and found this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Digit...2em118Q2el1247
it will probably work well and has a range of ten feet
jason

[matty b]

that looks bad ass!! I could think of quite a few different things I could use that for depending on how you wire it in. As it sits the standard relay is a keyless starter interupt however if you wire it in line with say the ignition circuit to the fusepanel, you can simply walkup to the car and it would turn the car on. You could wire it to wake up and allow door mounted buttons to unlock or lock the doors like a permanently mounted keyless entry system pretty much like a new corvette or infinity. For the price of just the relay at about 90 bucks and the abilty for multiple relays to be coded to a single fob, you could do many cool things with it. Im buying one of these to play around with, big ups to tracking this down :thumbsup:

[EE_Delphi]

HI ALL --

RE: RELAY IMMOBILIZER -- for example --

http://www.mastersentryseries.com/st...allation.shtml

Anyone know how these work? Anyone have a smart way to do the pushbutton start for them?

Do they meet the new Canadian specs for immobilizer conversions of cars licensed from the US ?

They are available thru Amazon etc. for less than $100 US