4l60E strength???

[69ptcamaro]

It looks like my friend is willing to give a go with the assembly of the 4l80e. My question is what parts out of the estimate above do I need to purchase in order to insure that the transmission will be good enough. Thanks again, I couldn't do this without you guys.

[Steve Chryssos]

Below are mods to a 69 with an 80. But this car has an aftermarket clip which raises the engine to clear the rack. Your results may vary. Should just fall into place if you have a stock clip.

Mr. Hammer, meet trans tunnel. Mr. Tunnel, meet Mr. Hammer (and his sidekick propane torch)

[Jayco_Automotive]

I just received my estimate for bowler transmission for a 4l80e capable of holding 800ft/lbs. It was a little out of my price range-$6500. I expected to pay top dollar to Bowler because I know they use the best stuff and take no shortcuts, but I thought it would be half of that price. My good friend can put a powerglide, 350, or 400 together with his eyes closed, would he be able to assemble a 80e without too much trouble. He is a mechanic everyday, but he is also a racer who has a car that runs 4.60s in the 1/8th so he knows his stuff on racing. I know he hasn't built an overdrive transmission before, though. How hard are they to build? I can go through the parts list and buy those parts for my transmission. The list of parts in the estimate are below. Do I need everything in the list for 750 hp or is some of that overkill. I want reliability so if that is what is cost to make a 80e reliable at that horsepower, I will be buying a gear vendors and having my friend build me a 400. Thanks

new clutches, steels, seals, and gaskets
updated reverse band
filter
new low roller sprag
new 1-2 shift solenoid
new 3-4 shift solenoid
updated molded steel direct clutch piston
new bearing kit
new bushing kit
new thrust washer kit
wide kickdown band w/ new apply piston
new pressure manifold switch
new epc solenoid
new input and output speed sensors
300M hardened input shaft
hardened 300M intermediate shaft
5-pinion rear planet
custom built billet lock-up converter
new internal wiring harness
updated boost valve
updated TCC regulator valve
shift kit
new pwm solenoid
heavy duty 34 element intermediate sprag
updated pump
new steel flywheel cover
new spicer slip yoke
new fill tube w/indicator
new steel pan
electronic control module
hayden 514 high perf. cooler
black powdercoating of case

Quite a parts list, huh?

if you need a supplier i can get you everything but the converter....

[fishtail8]

Put everything in it... build it once and forget about it. If you cut corners you'll be pulling it out again and cursing yourself for not building it right the first time. If you've gone through the trouble and money to build a 750hp engine hopefully with good pieces, why cheap out on the trans... Speed costs money... how fast can you afford to go...??

[Jayco_Automotive]

is that an estimated bhp or whp just a question ?

[69ptcamaro]

That's the estimated bhp from the engine shop. They will dyno the motor and set the fuel pressure, tune it, etc. after completion.

[Jayco_Automotive]

id use the 400 lighter and less parts to go wrong

[69ptcamaro]

I'm confused. What do you mean?

[myclone]

I'm confused. What do you mean?

Me too since...

4l80e minus torque converter=174 lbs.
4l60e minus torque converter=134lbs.
TH400 minus torque converter=135lbs plus the 36-40lb weight of the GV OD unit (actual weight depends on application according to the GV site).

If I did my math correctly a TH400+the GV unit will weigh at least 171lbs so the weight savings over the 80e is a whopping 3lbs (no weight savings if you end up with a heavy GV unit). Personally the 3lb weight penalty with the 80E is well worth the fact I can tune all the shift charactoristics from a lap top in the drivers seat with the AC on and not under a car up on jack stands with trans fluid dripping in my eyes.....but thats just me.

[6'9"Witha69]

I think it was a statement thet the 400 w/o a GV is lighter and that it has less crap to go wrong. A very KISS approach. The big difference in an 80 vs. a 700/60/65 is that it doesn't use the 2nd gear hub as the overdrive (correct my terminology please) and uses a seperate OD band. This is one of the inherent weak points of a 700/60/65 trans and is part of the reason the 80 weighs more yet is more durable. Packaging was not a deciding factor in how the 80 was designed and it shows.

I want one.

[DJW32]

Any GM truck, van, delivery box truck, etc from 94-up can be a source for the 80E as well as motor homes and buses (the short buses...seriously). Basically any GM truck/SUV type chassis thats a 2500 series (3/4 ton) or heavier that is gas or diesel is a good candidate for finding an 80E. Any 1500 (1/2 ton) or lighter full size truck/SUV will have the 4L60/4L60E so dont bother wasting your time looking under those. No RWD passenger car or light truck (aka S10) came with an 4L80E from the factory either so dont bother looking at those.

I dont use 80Es that are any earlier than 96 if I can help it but I build my own as well as procure them in the first place since it saves me time and $$$ putting updated parts in an early unit. GM had some electrical issues as well as the connector in the case for the wire harness to plug into was failure prone in the early 80Es. There is an updated harness available from GM but rather than go that route I just keep my eyes pealed for 96 and later units.

If you are scouring bone yards and want ads looking for a trans then the newer the trans the better since GM has done updates on it for strength and durability during the production run. If youre going to have someone else supply as well as build the trans then they more than likely will be aware of the internal changes and can update an older unit with no problem (the "new" stronger parts will fit the older trans'...ya just gotta know the specifics of how to do it).

There are two basic configurations of the 80E to look for if youre digging through the bone yards "transmission pile". The later trans' that have the more reliable electronics/electrical conector will have the fluid cooler line in/out ports in two seperate locations on the case where as the early units have the cooler line ports right next to each other at the bellhousing on the passenger side (the ports are in the same basic location where GM has put them for decades on other automatics). The later units ports will both still be on the passenger side but one will be located about half way back toward the rear of the trans with the other is still up next to the bellhousing.

The other way to tell what year you have is there should be a metal tag riveted to the case on the passenger side rear of the trans. It will look like the below pic and have some numbers stamped and printed on it.


Upper right hand corner will be a "P" which designates a 4L80E.
Lower left hand corner two digit stamped number is the model year (96=1996 in this instance).
Lower middle and slightly to the right stamped number is the calender year.
Lower right corner there will be a three stamped digits which is the julian date.

When I go bone yard scrounging for 80Es I look at the cooler line locations first which lets me know wheather Im looking at an early or late unit without having to actually read the tag (reading the tag isnt the easiest thing to do sometimes when digging through a pile of trans' in the rain). When I find a late model unit that has the seperate cooler line fitting location only then do I go through the trouble of cleaning the crime off the tag so I can see exactly what year the trans is.



I recall a few posts on here about floor pan/tunnel mods that are required and if I remember correctly it seems that there were minimal or no mods needed but some searching on here for the terms "tunnel 4L80E" would probably turn up those discussions to let you know for sure.

Myclone,
Thanks for the information!
Do you have a pic of the seperate cooler in/out lines?
David

[myclone]

Myclone,
Thanks for the information!
Do you have a pic of the seperate cooler in/out lines?
David

David,

Below is a pic of a 2000 model year 80e and you can see the cooler line fitting set up (ignore the metal line running horizontally to the case with the brass 90* fitting on the end for now...I'll touch on that shortly). That fitting you see toward the rear and to the upper right of the yellow tag that the metal hard line is attached to is the one that GM moved in the "late" transmissions and its location is what you want to look for when digging through the bone yards "transmission pile". The other line fitting is just behind the dip stick tube above the brass 90* fitting and it stayed in the same location throughout the model years.

To sum it up if you find an 80e that BOTH cooler line fittings are in the location of the one fitting shown just behind the dip stick tube its an early unit but if you find an 80e that the cooler line fittings are as pictured (minus that metal hard line) then youve just found a really late 96 or 97-up unit.



That horizontally running metal line/brass 90* fitting thingy...

That set up is an aftermarket piece to allow you to either install the later case with seperate cooler line fittings locations in an early vehicle whose hard lines both attach up next to the bellhousing or to help with clearance issues when stabbing an 80e in a vehicle that didnt come with one from the factory. I believe Sonnax makes it but its been a while since I purchased one so dont quote me on that...none the less you can get them from a coule different sources for just under $30. Just keep in mind that should you end up with a late model trans you will need to purchase that line set up since the late case/rear lube fitting actually screws further into the trans than what it appears to. To most ppl the rear line fitting appears to just screw into the case like all other trans' but in the later 80Es there is a nipple on the end thats ~1" long which seals to the support "inside" the case so if you dont install that fitting then youll have an internal leak. You'll see what Im talking about if you unscrew the factory clip on fitting out of a late trans and look at the end that was inside the case.

Oh, FWIW the front fitting(s) on late or early units are just screwed into the case (1/4" NPT BTW) so nothing special there so you can use any fitting that makes you happy as long as its 1/4" NPT.

Hope that helped you some.

[Jayco_Automotive]

Me too since...

4l80e minus torque converter=174 lbs.
4l60e minus torque converter=134lbs.
TH400 minus torque converter=135lbs plus the 36-40lb weight of the GV OD unit (actual weight depends on application according to the GV site).

If I did my math correctly a TH400+the GV unit will weigh at least 171lbs so the weight savings over the 80e is a whopping 3lbs (no weight savings if you end up with a heavy GV unit). Personally the 3lb weight penalty with the 80E is well worth the fact I can tune all the shift charactoristics from a lap top in the drivers seat with the AC on and not under a car up on jack stands with trans fluid dripping in my eyes.....but thats just me.

i was pointing out that weight difference if he left it as a 3 spd not with an additional housing, also as rebuilder the 4l80e has a lot of kinks and it weights a ton... but dont let me stop you i only build them for a living...

[Jayco_Automotive]

back to the actual topic though the greatest weak link in a 4l60e is the sun shell, the 2-4 band and the 3-4th clutch pack all which can be fixed...

[TheRoaringEagle]

if i mate a 4l80e to a powerplant more near 350 rwhp, will it actually absorb and take away hp?

running a fastburn 385 and turbo 350 and 3.42s, i heard a 700r4 will suck alot of hp out. also, i know the benefits of a lockup tc, but whatre the downsides?

4l80es are available without elctronic control right?

[nekkidhillbilly]

dont think a 4l80 is available without electronic control but however i have heard that you can use the 6.5 diesel pcm and it will run the tranny similar to tci controller since the 6.5 isnt controlled by the pcm and runs mechanical injection

side note the 4l80e built is stronger than a non built allison and are comparable when built the ally just has a better gear set for towing behind the diesel

i have an 04 dmax and adding a 100 hp on a stock dmax and you found its limits built both can handel pretty much what you through at them

[bigtyme1]

I have heard there's alot of tunnel work for the 80E is that true? 69 Camaro Rag top.

[Steve Chryssos]

No, not true. Nothing major. A simple dent with a hammer to make clearance for cooler lines. Bellhousing clearancing shown in pix above is for a car with a raised engine. I have a 60 and an 8 at the shop. I'll take some side by side pix. You will see that the dimensional differences are exaggerated. I'll take measurements too.