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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Manassas, VA
    Posts
    123
    Totally disagree with the line of thinking (and PHR) on the comments that the 700 is stronger than the 200, that's just nonsense. You want a lesson on 200s & 700s, visit the turbo GN site(s) and do your homework. Another piece of advice that many have learned the hard way. Don't go to BTO for a 2004r. Neither a 700 or a 200 will live (for long) behind more than 600 ft lbs, and over 450 ft lbs the life is limited, especially with slicks.

    If you're stuck on going 200 (or 700), than there's only 3 places to go for it:

    CK Performance
    PTS
    Extreme Automatics

    JakeShoe (Jakesperformance.com) is considered also one of the best, though not sure how many he does anymore, or what his backlog is.

    I just went through this with a Pontiac, and am now in the middle of installing a 4L80e, since in my opinion (and anyone who knows and isn't going to lie to you) it's the ONLY option, especially in a higher torque & horsepower application. A built 4L80e will take 1200HP/ ft lbs all day long and not even break a sweat. The most anyone will ever say a 200/700 will take is 800, and that's the limited life thing again.

    THE computer to get for the computer controller trans is the CompuShift unit. Once you install a computer controlled trans, and you've 'gotten by' with one of the other 'fixed' units, you WILL want to upgrade, so bite the bullet from the get go.

    Cost for upgrading to an OD auto is about $4500, be it a 2004r or a 4L80e, the difference is very little. A well-built 2004r costs bucks because there's certain hard parts that are REQUIRED to make it live, and those parts just plain cost. Converters for a 2004r, again, one that works and lives, are between 700-1000 bucks. If you are changing from an auto to a manual, you will see that the cost will climb up close to that anyway, so again it's a wash. A Gear Vendors unit is $2500, a good built TH400 is $1000, and a good converter, like Continental, is another 800-1000. Again a wash.

    My BTO level III is being rebuilt by BTO (warranty, 2nd time), replacing the converter, and I have the TV Made EZ kit with a Lokar. Once it gets back from BTO, I'll sell you the whole thing for $1500 obo plus shipping if you'd like.

    .
    HWYSTR455 on PY
    1971 Lemans Sport 461 bottle fed daily driver
    1971 Trans Am 474 blown EFI pro tour car
    1972 442 W-30 clone

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Niceville, Florida 32578
    Posts
    170
    Country Flag: United States
    I agree with HWYSTR, just went through this myself. Last year I decided to swap my TKO-600 for an auto (bad ankles/knees) and contacted Jakeshoe for a recommendation. My car is about 4000 lbs race weight and I have 500 ft lbs at the rear wheels before I hit the 150 shot. He recommended a 4L80E as a no maintenance option. He said while a 2004r "could" be built to work, it would be a high maintenance unit requiring frequent rebuilds at this power level. As Hwystr said, total cost would be close on both units. Since my car is not a race car I went with one of Jake's 4L80Es and a Compushift/Paddle shifter from Twist Machine. Also, with the 4L80E I'm good for about 200 more ft lbs of torque at the wheels than the 2004R if I decide to up my power.

    The only downside of the 4L80E is the necessary fabrication to install. Where the 2004r is pretty much a bolt in swap, the 4L80E required a trans adapter, a custom crossmember, modifications to my exhaust and even more holes in my firewall for wiring. But the payoff in reliability and peace of mind is worth it.

    In keeping with the US military's emphasis on dual use technology, I built a crossmember that also doubles as a trailer hitch for most imports.
    All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.

    Edmund Burke

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,012
    ohh wel here are our 2004r cars with BTO level III transmissions. http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=kghSCRQDSyc
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=BtgHOAzyTbg
    the first car (from my frind) fried his plates due to the standard OIL PAN.
    afther going to the bigger deeper oil pan and ecstra oil cooler and other convertor no more problem .
    my own car the green one is going to do the cannon ball runn!!!!. it hase 3 oil radiators for the transmission. 90% of the trans failiers is heat.
    both cars have 550 hp 577 lbs feet of torque.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    945
    How much wiring was required on the 4L80e? Are we talking 12 wires or 3 wires? Any input on the controller you used and other modifications to make it work? I'm guessing that was a stock TH400 crossmember you modified?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Niceville, Florida 32578
    Posts
    170
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by critter View Post
    How much wiring was required on the 4L80e? Are we talking 12 wires or 3 wires? Any input on the controller you used and other modifications to make it work? I'm guessing that was a stock TH400 crossmember you modified?
    One harness goes from the TCU to the transmission, one goes from the TCU to the TPS on the carburetor, one goes to the paddle shifter box and one goes to the display box. Only the transmission and TPS harnesses need to go through the firewall. I have not used it yet, as I also have other parts to replace on the car at the same time. Hope to try it out next week-end.




    The crossmember was an old one for a late 70's Camaro. Once I had the transmission bolted in the car (supported by a jack) and positioned where I wanted it, I simply bolted the crossmember to the transmission, cut the center section to clear the deep aluminum pan, bolted the cut-off ends onto the frame and tack welded the new steel plate in place. Then removed, welded and painted it. Not the most elegant crossmember in the world but its solid and functional. Of course, I had to move my x pipe back about 3" to clear the new trans.
    All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.

    Edmund Burke

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    920
    There is only one transmission worth using if you are on a strict budget and want something pretty much bullet-proof.

    The TH400.

    But you knew that already.

    Sure, it's great to have an overdrive trans. But you have to pay dearly for one that will take abuse, as you have already seen posted here in this thread.

    I'm paying in the 4K range for the 4L70E with a converter and controller that's going in my Tempest. The same car had a TH400 in it when I couldn't afford to spend big for anything more sohisticated.

    I'm also running a TH400 behind the 455 in my GTO. It was built over 15 years ago, and stood up to bracket racing (running 10" slicks and using a transbrake) in the low-12s for 10 years of that time. Still working fine for running around on the streets now, and I do beat on it.

    Just have a TH400 built up by a reputable builder (send me a PM if you want a good one built and shipped from CA to GA) and be happy.

    Put a 3.08 gear in the car and it will be nice out on the highway and be good around town too, use a 3.23 if you're in town most of the time.

    Overdrive transmissions are great, but not entirely necessary especially with big Pontiac torque working for you on the low end and mid-range.
    Bart F.


    '64 Tempest - LS3/4L70E - Grandma's Poor-Touring car
    '64 GTO - 455 HO/TH400 - Ex-bracket racer, street bruiser
    '02 WS6 convert - LS1/4L60E - Pure stock, pure pleasure

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    333
    Did you specifically mention needing/wanting an overdrive?

    In a relatively mild 400, a TH350 is very capable, plentiful, reasonably priced, and reliable.

    Keep in mind that while 400 Pontiac's are strong and torquey, they are not the torque animal that 455's are, so you have more options.

    Edit: Oops, I didn't see the second page (I am on my son's computer, with a 14" monitor...yikes).

    Bart is correct, but I stand behind the TH350 for a mild 400 Pontiac, as they are lighter, a bit less expensive, and depending on what your car came with, you may not need a different cross-member or driveshaft/yoke.
    Current: 2010 CTS-V
    Sold: '65 Pontiac, '08 TBSS

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1
    So when installing the 4l80E on a 69 GTO did you have to cut the tunnel for clearance? I'm in the process of changing the transmission in my 69 GTO and looking at options for overdive transmissions, currently I have a 4 speed manual, engine is being rebuilt to make approximately 600plus hp! Thoughts???

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Manassas, VA
    Posts
    123
    No cutting on a 68-72 A-body. I have an install thread on PY forums you can look at that I did 10 years ago, and now there are many more options available for the swap, like G-Force crossmembers are available, and a multitude of affordable controllers. I had CK do my 4L80e, and Chris provided just about everything needed.

    http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=4l80e

    It's hand-down the best upgrade I've done to date, and am in the >550hp/600ft lbs range. I ran it hard for 90k miles, no failures, had him freshen it when I build a new engine like 1.5 years ago, he said it really needed nothing.

    It's less expensive now too than it was back then.



    .
    HWYSTR455 on PY
    1971 Lemans Sport 461 bottle fed daily driver
    1971 Trans Am 474 blown EFI pro tour car
    1972 442 W-30 clone


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