Global West vs. DSE control arms to include Guldstrand Mod , Page one (from old site)

[chicane67]

lyncs2
Registered User
Posts: 37
(6/29/04 8:16 pm)
Reply Global West vs. DSE Control Arms...
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I am trying to decide which front suspension to go with,
for my First Gen. Camaro. Global West or Detroit Speed & Engineering ?? Both seem to be "great" systems, but which would you choose ??


ddennis68
Registered User
Posts: 197
(6/29/04 8:48 pm)
Reply Re: Global West vs. DSE Control Arms...
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How about Afco or Howe-save yourself like 400 bucks or so for the same design/quality part.

slam 73
Registered User
Posts: 2
(6/29/04 11:40 pm)
Reply afco
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I would not run that roundy round crap on the street if you value your life. Its not meant to stand up to the rigors of street driving.I've seen that stuff break at the speed way and its not pretty, if you check out some of the pit areas you'll see alot of broken ones. there is a reason why they are so cheap. Later Jason

baz67
Registered User
Posts: 156
(6/30/04 7:42 am)
Reply What ones
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To the point of your question. First, how far do you plan on upgrading your suspension? Is it just the arm swap or are you doing the Guldstrand mod? What about the DSE coilover conversion?

If you were to stay stock than I would go with the GW. If for the only reason is they are 200 cheaper. The same with the Guldsrtand mod. Now with the DSE coilover kit the DSE arms may have a bit of an edge.

If you go with the GW, be warned that some people have had customer service issues. I neve have with them, but some have. As for DSE I have not heard anything bad about them.
Brian

ddennis68
Registered User
Posts: 198
(6/30/04 10:28 am)
Reply control arms
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It's up to you, I was just throwing a suggestion out there. Exactly what do you think GW or DSE or ST are doing different, other than a pretty powder coat job. I happen to have some of each in front of me and other than than the AFCO arms being no nonsence all business without any fancy bends they are pretty much the same. The same style ball joint plate welded to the same size and appaers to be same wall thickness tubing with a nice steel cross shaft and solid bushings with teflon sleeves. Also how do you figure driving across town is more harsh than the chassis around a mile oval at 150MPH. Those things brake at like -3.0 g's under full lock. I'm quite sure my car cannot put that kind of stress on the arms. You need to understand when the arm is under stress-not driving around or even turning. Really the only time it is really pushed is during hard braking when the chassis wants to keep going and the tires are grabbing pavement.

amcmike
Registered User
Posts: 20
(6/30/04 7:51 pm)
Reply Re: control arms
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Speed-Tech Performance arms are CA$575 (about US$435). They offered a 10% discount to members of this forum.

ramz
Unregistered User
(6/30/04 9:59 pm)
Reply roundy round crap?
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wow , i guess i should throw away all my afco double adj. shocks,afco gn hubs(front and rear),sweet manf. spindles and power rack&pinion,afco a-arms,c&r radiator,outlaw racing calipers(9000 & 4000),wilwood rotors,and that custom mark williams modular 9in full floater rearend that i am making,,,since roundy round stuff is easy to break,,i sure want to be safe ,fun fun

o1mrquick
Registered User
Posts: 1930
(7/1/04 12:45 am)
Reply Afco
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Dennis and I had a discussion the other day about the speedway arms and they look plenty strong.You could even beef em up abit by adding a cross brace , gussets and extra welds. all that work and you'd still be ahead of the game. I don't think they improve or add any caster or camber gain do they? I can see Jasons reasoning behind his thoughts.You do see alot of broken parts at the track but then Im not taking a curb shot at 60 mph when driving down the city streets....havent done that since high school. Holy ***** Rams, you ain't f***in around are you?!?! I can see breaking a mount before breaking an arm.I think frequent inspections would be wise. Vince

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1132
(7/1/04 5:40 am)
Reply Re: Afco
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DAMN YOU RAMZ! When do we get to see pix of this Big Dog?

The roundy round guys break A-arms because they participate in a CONTACT sport. They bang wheels. And every once in a while, they turn right instead of left. Oops! Concrete walls have a way of testing the limits of suspension parts. So prices are low because they are replaced frequently.

I have AFCO upper A-arms and I assure you: They have survived through many NY potholes. I was able to specify the exact length and balljoint offset for my application.

So the only difference between racing A-arms and DSE/GW is that the DSE/GW's are bolt-on. DSE/GW have done the geometry homework for you. If you want to figure out your own suspension geometry, there no reason not to get racing A-arms.
/Steevo



www.lateral-g.net

70toTour
Registered User
Posts: 368
(7/1/04 7:38 am)
Reply Speedway a-arms
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You do have to remember that there is a ballance b/t weight and strength in racing equipment. I would have reservations about putting dedicated race equipment on my street car because they are made as light as possible and in doing so sacrifice some strength. At a minimum they only have to last through one race.

Also, I dont think 3g's on a banked oval track is equivalent to 3g's on a flat road. If a car was to corner at 3g's on a flat surface then more load would be input into the a-arms and chassis than if that same car cornered at 3g's on a banked oval. I could be wrong here though. I am too lazy to really think about it.

By the way, I suggest the DSE a-arms.

Michael

ddennis68
Registered User
Posts: 201
(7/1/04 10:06 am)
Reply 3G's
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That -3.0G is on braking, I don't think I've heard of a tire that would still hold at 3.0g lateral. I'm not sure but I think F1 cars are about the highest pulling lat g vehicle out there and they are only around high 1.5-2.0. So light weight means less strength-better tell NASA and Lockheed to stop using titanium as it is gonna fail.

USAZR1
Registered User
Posts: 749
(7/1/04 11:14 am)
Reply Re: 3G's
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Is the circle track designed to handle the daily rigors of a street car? If so,why are the GW,DSE,and other A-arms so much more expensive?
At their price level,it kinda sounds like the circle track stuff isn't designed to be used for street use.
Clint Hooper
Pro-Camino
Clint's 69 SS-427 El Camino protourer
Ultimate GT
Clint's 91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

Edited by: USAZR1 at: 7/1/04 3:25 pm

ramz
Unregistered User
(7/1/04 11:14 am)
Reply poo
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i am currently up to my ears in that damn car,,redoing the rear frame,reskined a door,drawing up plans for a new frontend and trying to get a the tooling to finish the rearend,i wish i would have taking pics. of the mock up before i tore it apart,i am worried about it being all alum. ,,,time is hard to find,,i'm 31 and decided that i wanted to go back and get my degree in mech. eng.,,so i promiss i'll get pics,,,i am terrible about taking them,i just get focused and tear into things,,this is a street car with overkill components,,i only have 475hp,,it is not a bad ass,,,the 69 i have in the corner of the shop is going to stop hearts in 3 to 4 years.,,,,,oh,the crap,see i forgot,,i was just playing,if half these guys ever see me,,i think i could be getting some of it back ,,,,i have been around roundy round crap all my life,,,you can not break it,that is stupid,,alum. cross shafts on afco a-arms are the only thing i would worry about(don't get them),,4 years ago i put a set(off-set version)on my 69 with a stock frame,i did have to cut on it but they worked fine,,,,,use it or don't use it but don't talk about things you don't know,,,just put a ? after you comment to save your as*

ramz
Unregistered User
(7/1/04 11:23 am)
Reply price
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why are they more expensive,,,,mmmmmm,,,,mmmmm,,,because you guys who can't or won't make your own or will not make some others fit will buy them for what ever they want ,,,,are those "high" dollared a-arms even made out of dom or are they just cold rolled?,,see question

USAZR1
Registered User
Posts: 751
(7/1/04 11:24 am)
Reply Re: poo
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Must not be crap if you can't break it,ramz.
Just curious but how much does the average Late Model circle track car weigh?
Clint Hooper
Pro-Camino
Clint's 69 SS-427 El Camino protourer
Ultimate GT
Clint's 91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

ramz
Unregistered User
(7/1/04 11:50 am)
Reply wedges
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oh, a test goody goody,,,here in da bible belt us hillbillies run your standard 434 alum. mills and those cars weigh about 2300 i think,,,lucky i was over at the guys shop who does most of the magnetos that mallory has rebuilt of the circle track world,, his is on the rebco 4-corner scales as we speak,,,,his weighs 2374 with out the driver and gas,as for other classes i would have to get out a rule book,,he says your funny and the web site is cool and to bring your guys cars out on the track and we see who's car is running last

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1139
(7/1/04 11:57 am)
Reply Re: wedges
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That must be a dirt late model. Asphalt cars generally have higher minimum weights--at least anything with fenders does. If you factor in everything from the lightest ASA 2600# to a cup car, the average is probably 3000#

Uhh...Why?

www.lateral-g.net

ramz
Unregistered User
(7/1/04 12:31 pm)
Reply damn got me
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yep, its a dirt car,that hit the wall at a speed that should have broke something but it just bent the hell out of the front corner of the frame,,still tracks straight though?,,i think he was testing me not you,,,the car runs in 3 different classes so it could be different than what other people are use too

ddennis68
Registered User
Posts: 203
(7/1/04 12:43 pm)
Reply Re: damn got me
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The titanium comment was directed at Michael who claims lightweight parts are more fragile-making a point that lightweight does mean weaker.
Dennis-

check out progress of Bondobucket

ramz
Unregistered User
(7/1/04 1:30 pm)
Reply a-arms
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what about global west and fat man fab.,,,does everybody just think dse is the only way to go?i do not get it,,,any a-arm is going to be good(maybe),,the speed tech.(i think that is it),,looks the best of any,,,but why buy some arms that have some sort of alignment correction,,,when you can just by some good a-arms and do the Guldstrand tech. on them,,,i guess i'm old and funny about things,i suck

TitoJones
Registered User
Posts: 695
(7/1/04 2:36 pm)
Reply My opinion-
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Having seen both sets of arms, and seen Geometry testing on both, I'd recommend the DSE arms if you can swing them. You will not be disapointed. I say all of this while being a complete Global West Whore, and still recommend them.
Tyler