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  1. #1
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    Weight and Distribution, Page one (from old site)

    blown67
    Posts: 23
    (7/19/04 8:45 am)
    Reply weight
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    I have a 67 camaro and this week I scaled the car. It was 1720 front and 1360 in the rear. The corner weight was 50-50. How could i get some weight off of the nose. In addition, from what I understand I think the corner weight is perfect at 50%. Tell me as much as possible about weight and distribution.

    Thanks
    Deacon

    ps How much do your cars weight?

    Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 8:46 am

    XcYZ
    Registered User
    Posts: 1307
    (7/19/04 11:03 am)
    Reply
    Re: weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One of the easiest things would be to move the battery to the trunk. A fiberglass hood is also a big plus in that respect.
    Scott
    My 69
    Lateral-g.net



    camaroboy69
    Registered User
    Posts: 1397
    (7/19/04 11:34 am)
    Reply
    Re: weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you get real serious you could even do fiberglass fenders, lexan windows....
    Adam
    My Website 06-25-04

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1192
    (7/19/04 12:30 pm)
    Reply Re: weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well at 3080lbs, your car is already very light. What exactly have you done so far to get the car down to that weight? My car weighs 3150lbs and I have a lightweight front clip, hollow doors, no back seat, no AC, fuel cell. Also despite my best efforts to move weight around, I still have 51.3% front weight bias.

    Are you sure that the scales are accurate? Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just that folks with 3080lb Camaros usually know all there is to know about weight reduction--and then some. It takes a lot of work to shed 400-800 lbs and maximize weight balance.


    www.lateral-g.net

    Ralph L
    Moderator
    Posts: 3685
    (7/19/04 12:30 pm)
    Reply
    Re: weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tubular upper and lower control arms, after market discs, a glass hood like Scott said, relocating the battery, forged wheels, aluminum radiator, possibly aluminum heads and intake if you dont have them, will all help to shave some weight.

    You could do 'glass fenders and lexan windows like Adam said also. Just keep in mind that the 'glass probably won't line up great, and lexan scratches really easy.
    Ralph
    Project Fantom Expected Completion - May 2005
    My Tahoe - "Black Mamba"
    Rendering of Project Fantom

    blown67
    Posts: 25
    (7/19/04 1:08 pm)
    Reply MY CAR
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    my car is fairly stock in weight. The things that have been done is I moved the battery to the back and I have sparco racing seats, no front bumper.

    The scales are the ones used by my Solo2 group in SD, so I think they are accurate.

    The mods to the car are as follows.
    350 sbc w/b&m 144 blower 6psi boost
    t-56 6 speed
    79 pontiac ws6 rearend
    g-mod
    Baer 13 brakes and ws6 rears
    hotchkis 600# fronts
    landrum 200# rears
    biltsteins
    hotchkis front bar
    minitub
    TTII's w/hoosier a3so4 slicks
    245/45/17front 315/35/17 rear
    full interior

    but what I want to know is how far back i should move the engine to get the distribution closer to 50-50

    Deacon

    Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 1:12 pm

    PzeroTA
    Registered User
    Posts: 83
    (7/19/04 1:16 pm)
    Reply Re: MY CAR
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Check the scales. A '67 with those mods would weigh 3600-3800lbs.
    - Casey
    SuperCar X: Information for high-performance design



    blown67
    Posts: 26
    (7/19/04 1:18 pm)
    Reply how
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    how do you check digital scales
    i turned it on zeroed the scales and then rolled the car on

    it came up 3080

    Deacon

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1195
    (7/19/04 2:17 pm)
    Reply Re: how
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah..
    Sorry Deacon. Ain't no way it's only 3080. Depending on where you live, you can head down to the local oval track speed shop and rent some scales.

    Anyway, here's what I did to get my car's weight down. My efforts wil help you understand why your ca must weigh more.

    -Replaced stock front clip with ARDF (Wayne Due) front clip.
    -Clip accepts forged alum LCA's/tubular steel UCA's, forged alum uprights.
    -Clip accepts R&P steering in place of heavy OE steering.
    -Engine set back approx 2" (against unmodified firewall)
    -Fluidyne aluminum radiator
    -Cut inner wheelhouses
    -Forged aluminum wheels
    -No side glass (hollow doors and lexan rear side glass-fixed)
    -12 pt roll cage adds weight but adds it in the middle of the car
    -Corbeau 1-piece FIA aluminum driver's seat Carrera pass seat
    -No back seat (rear firewall instead)
    -No heat or AC
    -RCI (yuk) fabricated fuel cell mounted midway thru trunk pan
    -Optima battery mounted in trunk.
    Weight w/o driver 3150lbs. And mind you, this car still has a steel hood (steel everything), iron small block, RS headlights, bumpers. I just added in a stereo with removable rear speakers and will add functional power door windows so I will be adding 50-75lbs between the windows and the stereo.
    There you go
    /Steevo

    www.lateral-g.net

    blown67
    Posts: 27
    (7/19/04 2:53 pm)
    Reply WHATS SO DIFFERENT
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So i don't have your front end but i also don't have a cage
    my seats weight 15 lbs a piece my gas tank was probably empty my wheels are torq thrusts about 24lbs i have hoosiers which are about half the weight of street tires, no rs front end, no stereo at all, no ac
    do you really think that you've taken off 800 lbs off your car did they weigh 3800 from the factory

    The reason i posted this wasn't to brag how light my car was but to seek advice as to how make the car handle better, such as is the corner weight ideal, how can i move weight from front to rear and so on. Maybe the scales are wrong, but then every car tech'd in SD Solo2 is off by 800 lbs also.

    Deacon

    Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 2:56 pm

    harshman
    Registered User
    Posts: 114
    (7/19/04 3:22 pm)
    Reply Re: WHATS SO DIFFERENT
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I’m pretty sure that he just gave you some ideas on how to lighten up your car. I think he is also telling you to verify the weight before you do any modifications. If those #'s are true, don't touch a thing ‘cause you have an awesome setup. Mine is 3,500 lbs but that was on a crapy scale.

    blown67
    Posts: 28
    (7/19/04 3:28 pm)
    Reply weight
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    i understand that 67 ss camaro w/350 weighed about 3480 stock from the factory, but what i want to know is this weight distribution good or is it more important to have 50-50 front to rear distribution

    Deacon

    gchandle
    Registered User
    Posts: 96
    (7/19/04 4:25 pm)
    Reply Weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Don't forget that you have a 4l80E which is quite a heavy transmission.




    I put the 64 chevelle on the scales at LACR and I got 3125lbs with half a tank of gas. The car is all steel, with stock interior, no radio and no a/c or heater. Iron 350 with aluminum heads, waterpump, and manifold, brass/copper radiator with steel finger guard, TH 350 transmission, 12bolt rear and steel rally wheels.. I guess that the early chevelles can be lighter then the camaros. I want to change out the heavy factory seats, put in an ls1 and change to an aluminum radiator and get some light racing wheels, I hope to get the car down to right 3000lbs.

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1197
    (7/19/04 6:23 pm)
    Reply Re: Weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tell me as much as possible about weight and distribution.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I'm trying to tell you as much as possible about weight and distribution. Rule number one about weight and distribution is to establish a qualified baseline. Otherwise we're just chasing our tails. I offered my car up as that baseline so that we have a talking point.

    The Wayne Due clip and the parts that work with it (rack, spindle, etc) shed in excess of 200lbs off the nose while improving handling. This is the primary weight reduction element of my car. Plus, my engine is set back almost 2" and I still do not have 50/50 front/rear distribution. So I'm guessing that in addition to that clip, you would have to set your engine well back into the firewall area. And you would have to ditch the heavy, high-mounted blower and/or go to an aluminum block.

    If none of the above sounds feasable, just sprinkle more pixie dust on the front half of the car.
    /Steevo

    www.lateral-g.net

    CarlC
    Registered User
    Posts: 204
    (7/19/04 7:11 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3524#

    http://www.geocities.com/casanoc


    Jim Nilsen
    Unregistered User
    (7/19/04 10:41 pm)
    Reply Power windows.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey Steevo, I have been looking at power windows for a few years and have found that some installations will actually remove weight over the stock regulators.

    If you go to a fiberglass hood and the right hinges you will loose an easy 30# up front and high which will help the weight bias a lot.

    My car as it sits without the front clip and a lot of engine accessories and all wiring and 1/2 of the interior currently weighs 2580 with almost exact 50/50 but it has a wedge in the L/R in both the front and rear that is probably from still not being fully loaded and settled in.I expect to add another 250 to 300 max in the completion. It will be easier to keep it off if I know what I am adding vs trying to find a way to take it off. If I can add a/c and still be under 3000# I will probably add it.

    My 1st 67 Camaro weighed in at 3010# at a legal scale that was accurrate to within 10#. It had no trunk to really speak of, the quarters were really rusty,the rockers had typical cancer, and the front fenders had some weight reduction from mother nature too. It was as stripped as a car could be . The cool thing was that I had over 100# of various stuff in the trunk at the time. I always figured that I would add at least 100# back on the car just fixing it back up. The car was originally a 6 cyl. car and so is the 67 I am currently building. I once read the weights of the different optioned cars and was really surprised how much the 6 cyl. differred in weight and always wondered if there were other things that contributed to it other than engine weight alone ?

    Jim Nilsen

    ddennis68
    Registered User
    Posts: 246
    (7/19/04 10:48 pm)
    Reply Re: Power windows.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How accurate are the "local" scales for state weight. I know they don't do front to rear bias but will they give an accurate total weight. I asked them and they say "of course".
    Dennis-

    check out progress of Bondobucket

    baz67
    Registered User
    Posts: 177
    (7/19/04 11:01 pm)
    Reply Re: local scales
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you are refering to the scales that the states use to weigh trucks, those are not for public use. Unless yo know someone. You could go to a truck stop and use their scales.
    Use the ones that can weigh each axle set of a truck. You can just put each one of your axles on a seperate platform and get a seperate axle weight and total weight. You cannot get corner weights though. Those scales have a +- of 100lbs.
    Brian

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1198
    (7/20/04 5:35 am)
    Reply Custom floor/firewall
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi Jim,
    How much weight do you think you saved with the fabricated floor and firewall? I'd like to do the same in the next rebuild. It's a lot of work but I think it's worthwhile as long as I have a cage tying the frame together. I will go to a CF hood at that time.
    Also, I can't tell from your pix if you grafted the C4 Vette suspension onto the stock subframe or did you build a custom frame? I see your engine is set back 6" Where does that put your #1 spark plug in relation to the front axle centerline?

    I got the Electric-Life power regulators. They are pretty light. The door glass is the heaviest component. Fine by me since it is located in the middle of the car. I just hate adding weight. I will re-scale the car after the window install. I hate adding weight though. So I will yank the front bumper and horns at the same time.

    www.lateral-g.net

    blown67
    Posts: 29
    (7/20/04 10:00 am)
    Reply lets get to real technical answers
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1) I'm not sure but this is what i think.
    If the cars corner weight is 50% then the car is balanced perfectly and it shouldn't act any differently in left or right hand corners ... is this correct?
    If the front is heavier it will cause the car to understeer a bit more than if it were 50/50 ... is this correct?
    From what I understand there isn't a way to move weight from front to rear ... not by removing weight but by changing the rake of the car
    I'm not stupid I know how to remove weight from the car what I want to know is how to move weight around and if its necessary with my corner weight at 50/50

    2)Any ideas as to how much a 350 and a six speed weight, I would consider moving the motor back as far as necessary to get 50/50 front/rear balance. Has anyone done this? will my headers still fit or is custom exhasut inevitable?

    Deacon


    camaroboy69
    Registered User
    Posts: 1404
    (7/20/04 10:22 am)
    Reply moved
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As stated above, Steevo moved his back about 2"


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Lost Wages, Nevada
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    Country Flag: United States

    Page two

    keithq
    Registered User
    Posts: 879
    (7/20/04 10:53 am)
    Reply Weight.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey guys.

    Great topic.

    I am trying to keep my car as clost to 3000#'s as possible, after seeing what other cars weigh though I think that is going to be a dream.

    My car has lot's of aluminum but also has all the creature comforts too.
    I have a 69 shell with a new full floor pan that is a bit thinner than the original stamping, full chromolly cage, I made my own front subframe to use C4 vette suspension, smooth firewall, inner cowl panel cut out, LS1 engine with a t56 moved back against the firewall, Dana 44 rear, aluminum rad, fibreglass front bumper, carbon fibre hood, C5 sport seats, aftermarket front fenders and header panel, no inner fenders in the front, electric life power windows, Vintage air A/C. The car will not be together for another month or so. I will try and get a weight at that time.

    There is a dairy close to me that weighs all trucks coming in and out, a friend works there and says it is accurate to within 5#'s because it is used for trade.

    On a side note, I remember reading somewhere that moving the battery from the front of the car to the back has as much effect as moving the engine back 8" or so.

    Keith Quinn.


    jeffandre
    Registered User
    Posts: 746
    (7/20/04 11:12 am)
    Reply 350 Weight
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    The following website says 350 weighs 575#. 1959 Corvette 283 w/alum. intake weighs 535#.

    www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html

    Jeff Andre'

    jon
    Unregistered User
    (7/21/04 7:41 am)
    Reply x
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    i think that a 50/50 f-r,side-side would be desirable,but i've never seen a 1st gen there.so no data,no realistic opinion.you might get a little off the nose with a tiny radiator-only able to cool it for one run.glad to see you a (ab)using your car in the proper manner.what is the part # on those leaf springs,and what bushings are you using?my car weighs about the same as yours,is competition use only,and i run 540 front,hotchkis bar,5/7 valve code series 30 konis.in back i have 176 leafs and 5/6 pro shocks.265/45/16 victoracers all around.i don't autox,but would be glad to provide any data that will help.any fitement issues with the landrums?

    blown67
    Posts: 30
    (7/21/04 8:57 am)
    Reply understeer
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now since I minitubed my camaro and add 315/35/17 hoosiers in the rear the car developed a slight understeer. I was considering adding a rear bar to help transfer the weight a bit faster across the rear... will this work? or should I just go to 200#-225# rear springs instead.

    The landrums work and fit fine but I think I will try a set of hotchkis multi-leafs if they have 225# springs
    future plans are to go with 800# fronts and a stiffer rear

    PAI Racing
    Registered User
    Posts: 106
    (7/21/04 9:06 am)
    Reply Late on weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey, I know I am jumping into this a bit late, but my car was 3040# with me in it across the scales up at 7's Only at Buttonwillow. It was 2,780# without the fat-ass behind the wheel.

    Admittedly the car is gutted. It has an 0.095 4130 cage, glass hood and deck lid, lexan rear window and no inner fenderwells. Otherwise it is all steel. Additionally, I have about a mile of braided line in the car for the dry sump.

    To be honest, I think there is at least another 200 lbs that could come out of the car. I am running J-56 calipers and heavy steel stock car wheels. I think that by switching to aluminum race wheels and different calipers, I could drop 75#. Fiberglass doors and fenders and a plastic windshield should do the rest. Heck, a 2500# first gen would be fun. Hmmm where's that checkbook...

    conekiller13
    Registered User
    Posts: 743
    (7/21/04 12:40 pm)
    Reply 50/50
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think Tyler would be good on this topic........


    Anyway as far as I know You have to move the front of the engine behind the front axle. I belive that amounts to 18" or so............




    Dan

    jon
    Unregistered User
    (7/21/04 1:36 pm)
    Reply x
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the third option on that understeer would be soften the front.if you do the bar i'd do a 7/8" splined bar,you can get them turned down or stepped up as needed.maybe add 60 lbs. per inch?the leafs would cost about the same,maybe less and no fabrication.a bigger tire in front would help also,have you tried sqeezing a 275/40/17 on the front?

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1206
    (7/21/04 1:44 pm)
    Reply Re: 50/50
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Banks Engineering claims that the SB2 small block back in their Camaro is set back 6" to make room for the intercooler and all the ductwork . I don't see any infow on weight bias but it sure looks like a lot of work. Below is engine pic, link, and underdash pic (to show how much room is consumed).


    www.bankspower.com/camaro-FirewallCowlMod.cfm



    www.lateral-g.net

    blown67
    Posts: 34
    (7/21/04 1:45 pm)
    Reply n/c to the front
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't want to soften the front since the car has minimal roll with 600# fronts and the rear bar will work but i'm not sure if it will have enough impact to compensate for the understeer. i know for sure that heavier rear springs will help.
    Does anyone have any idea what the hotchkis rear spring rate is? or the DSE rear springs? I don't think that 275's will fit on the front of a 67 camaro without a different front clip.
    maybe this should be on a new thread?
    Deacon

    CarlC
    Registered User
    Posts: 207
    (7/21/04 2:57 pm)
    Reply
    Re: n/c to the front
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Hotchkis spring is in the 175 #/in range but has some progessive increase under bump.

    http://www.geocities.com/casanoc


    Jim Nilsen
    Unregistered User
    (7/22/04 10:39 am)
    Reply Grafted frame
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi Steevo, I grafted the c4 front onto a full frame I fabricated for the back.At the time there were no available parts so after a lot of thinking I grafted it on like a bulkhead would be. The crash testing that was done ont the c4 front and hsla steel that it is made from should hold up well and was designed to be as light and strong as possible. Plus all of the critical dimensions for everything were already there.

    I don't believe I saved much weight in the floor or firewall. I saved most of the weight off of the front subframe. The original subframe and front suspension were very heavy compared to the Vette front. The biggest weight loss was the steering components, I lost at least 45# there and the Vette frame was at least 40# less also. Add that weight with the loss of the hood weight and you get about 125# loss.The brake system also removed about 5 to10# over stock.

    Moving the engine back 6 in. is the biggest thing to get the 50/50 bias.The battery is in the back and it weighs half of the original also.

    If you do side by side comparisons to a lot of parts you will find that some will add and some will remove weight but the ability to know the difference only comes when you weigh them.

    A larger aluminum radiator will add weight to the car once you add the extra fluid for instance and the steering box vs the rack is a really big difference.

    I truly believe that it is easier to keep the weight down by just not adding it. Where to keep it off can get very expensive. Lighter parts always seem to cost the most.

    You can also remove at least 20 to 30 lbs. with the right exhaust and wheel and tire package. Steel wheels can sometimes be lighter and a stainless exhaust of the right guage will help out a lot.

    Sometimes the lighter stuff is also the simplest things to change. Seats are another culprit of an extra 20 to 40 lbs. sometimes.

    The cage is an important part of holding my car together and it has made it so rigid that it is amazing.The design of the floor is also very strong and aerodynamic compared to the original also which should be of benefit at higher speeds.

    Jim Nilsen


    jon
    Unregistered User
    (7/22/04 11:41 am)
    Reply x
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    i've been around and around on this,but i've run a 275 in front on a 68 with inner fenders.and just last week i had my springs out to check bumpsteer/camber curve and bolted one of my 9.5/17/5.5 b.s. rims with 275/40 tire from the rear on front and fail to see any clearance problems,other than light contact with upper arm at full droop and lock.a slightly taller bump stop would fix it.i don't have inner fenders now.so keep an open mind,most people are only reciting what they have read regarding fitement,i suggest trying for yourself.but hey,i also say that a 12.9x1.4 rotor and six piston caliper will fit in a 15" wheel.before you argue,check out cvproducts.com,part#sc680,page 177 of catalog,heavy duty brake system-front.

    blown67
    Posts: 40
    (7/22/04 11:51 am)
    Reply cool
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a set of 9.5" rims but they have 6.5" bs so they don't fit
    Does the tire hit the outer fender at all per say when you are turned and go through a dip does the wheel stick out past the fender and rub? That is my biggest concern.
    How low is your car? Is the lip of the fender below the top of the tire, can you send me some pictures before I buy a set of rims for the front.

    Deacon
    [email protected]

    JustBringIt
    Registered User
    Posts: 421
    (7/22/04 3:35 pm)
    Reply Weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My 69 is all steel except fiberglass hood that is heavy as hell. A SBC filled to the freeze plugs with aluimum heads (same weight as steel heads and no fller), full interior, full cage, weighs 3150 without me in it.
    Also, about you 50 / 50, put yourself in the seat and weight it, should make a huge difference. I am 48.5 / 51.5 with me in it. The car does race with no one in it.

    Frank

    blown67
    Posts: 42
    (7/22/04 3:51 pm)
    Reply SCALES
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I had to give the scales back so I will run it like it is for a while. Seems to work pretty good. I run in the top third of the SD region solo2 and the competition is heavily invovlved.(Way more money than i've invested)

    chicane67
    Registered User
    Posts: 155
    (7/22/04 5:20 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: x
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'll second Jon's statement towards the 50/50 idea.

    50/50 front to rear means very little, in reality, and isnt the best thing going......except for a chassis and it's suspension dynamic's that are built specifically for it.

    If anyone want's to do something to aid in tuning and turning a chassis, you need to concentrait on a 50-50 right-left weight distribution......and work on moving weight front to rear (or vice versa) after you have established just that. It is stated NOWHERE that 50/50-F/R in a first gen F-body is where you want to be in the first place. GET it out of your mind......and save yourself some face, up front. You guys are killing me........ Just remember this:

    Everytime you move or remove weight, it requires alignment and tire pressure changes to get it back driving square. Unless you can take equal weight off of all four corners at the same time, you will need to adjust things to re-dial the suspension.

    I'm well under 3000 myself....but am in the midst of a few changes, so I wont know until I get it back on the scales again.

    blown67~ I would do the rate change before I would try a stay bar.

    Edited by: chicane67 at: 7/22/04 5:35 pm

    CarlC
    Registered User
    Posts: 208
    (7/22/04 5:36 pm)
    Reply Weight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For me, as Tom has so eloquently pointed out in an earlier post , the best location for weight reduction on my car is the driver!

    The next best thing to make the car go faster around a road coarse is driving lessons. A good driver in a crappy car can drive circles around a good car and crappy driver.





    jon
    Unregistered User
    (7/22/04 6:19 pm)
    Reply x
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    yep.the slowest part of my car is inside my helmet,and the best place to lose 50 pounds is located directly underneath.don't be ordering rims based on what some nutjob says on the internet.i have a fiberglass nose now so i can't say what might rub bodywork wise.but i have used that size with all sheetmetal still on the car.my car is at proper ride height,i.e. the pivot of the lower bj and lca form a line paralell with the floor.finding a test wheel and removing both springs so you can leave the sway bar connected will be the only way to know. another overlooked size is 265/45/16,8" rim with 4.5bs.that fits mine both ends with no issue.

    Mean 69
    Registered User
    Posts: 78
    (7/22/04 7:38 pm)
    Reply sheesh!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Man, I guess I shoulda, coulda, woulda looked at this thread earlier, nice stuff in here!

    First off, Steevo, can you CONFIRM that you saved 200 lbs with the 'Due clip? I mean, did you weigh it? That is alot of weight, I am not by any means suggesting that it is not possible, but that's a bunch. A big bunch.

    PAI (Sean): Dude, I am thinking I need to buy a shifter cart now. I can't drive, but the power to weight ratio, well, you got me by 90 lbs, maybe I would have a chance?! Probably not. BTW, that is a really good fighting weight for the AIX cars, I did not realize your car was this light. I think I'll have to take another look at the photos..... Is there a lower limit for AIX weight? I know there is for AI.

    Tom/Blown67: Yep. Tom's absolutely right. A perfect weight balance only compliments a car that was set up for it. Moving polar weight will really upset the poor car, reducing weight evenly and overall, and focusing it as closely to the center of the car (in all three axes) is nothing but good. Then comes the tuning aspect. When it is all said and done, the ultimate weak link in the front engine sedans is going to be the grip of the front tire. You are on the right track to transfer weight to the rear by stiffening up the rear, but the outer front tire is going to be THE limit to what the car overall can perform to. You can tune around to find the best balance, but the 315's on the back are not going to help overall unless you drive to maximize their effect (slow in, fast out). Tom, I've said it before, I'll say it again, you're wise beyond your young years.

    "Loose is fast....." My butt.

    Mark

    davidpozzi
    Moderator
    Posts: 1239
    (7/22/04 11:33 pm)
    Reply
    Re: sheesh!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have figured out a stock first gen Camaro sub with trans crossmember weighs 343 lbs with ps, 315 without ps, bare sub weight is 110. Not counting wheels/tires but with stock discs.

    stock A arms weigh around 10 lbs each upper with shaft and BJ.
    stock lower arms are 11 lbs each.
    PS complete with pump and hoses, pitman 44 lbs, Manual box and pitman, 16.5lbs
    A steering knuckle assy with single piston brakes etc complete, is 46 lbs.
    David
    67 RS Camaro, 69 Camaro vint racer, 65 Lola T-70 Can-Am vint racer.
    ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Lost Wages, Nevada
    Posts
    2,671
    Country Flag: United States

    Page three

    blown67
    Posts: 43
    (7/23/04 9:00 am)
    Reply thank you
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    thanks for the advice about the front/rear distribution. It only took 25 responses to get a answer. I am not going to worry about the weight of my car now since it has 50/50 corner weight and that seems to be most important.
    Deacon

    Edited by: blown67 at: 7/23/04 9:01 am

    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1209
    (7/23/04 10:13 am)
    Reply Re: thank you
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mark,
    I'm wrong. The clip/C4 suspension/rack conversion saves 125lbs. "200lbs plus" number came from Cam Evans who was including the savings of aluminum small block castings (heads/block). My bad.

    Either way, my point is still the same. It takes a lot of work to remove a significant amount of weight.

    www.lateral-g.net

    chicane67
    Registered User
    Posts: 184
    (7/26/04 8:53 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: thank you
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    spindle with steering arm 8
    spindle cal brkt & bolts 10
    drum hub 5
    2 pc 69 rotor 12
    2 pc 69 hub 6
    JL8 rotor bare 17
    single piston caliper with pads 10
    67 drum knuckle assy 35
    69 knuckle assy with caliper 46
    2nd gen knuckle assy 53
    lower A frame 11
    upper A frame with shaft 10
    center link and tie rods 17
    tie rod - 1 4
    ctr link large 10
    sway bar - .965? 15/16? 10
    hyperco coil - 650 lb rate 10
    ft shock koni 3
    manual box with pitman arm 16.5
    ps pump w hoses 14
    ps box with pitman 30
    SUBFRAME WEIGHT BARE 110
    Subframe complete with susp 343
    SUBFRAME WEIGHT additon listBare sub 110
    knuckle assys 92
    springs 22
    A arms - upper 22
    A arms - lower 22
    Shocks 6
    Ctr link and tie rods 17
    Trans Crossmember 10
    Sub total 299
    PS box, hoses, pump 44


    streetfytr68
    Registered User
    Posts: 1234
    (7/27/04 4:19 am)
    Reply Re: thank you
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm dying to know how much C4 spindles and A-arms weigh.

    www.lateral-g.net

    f18joe
    Registered User
    Posts: 20
    (7/27/04 4:08 pm)
    Reply SD solo 2
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Deacon,
    Anything going on this weekend in SD for racing or shows?
    Just got here from the East Coast and its my last weekend in country for 7 months.
    I want to get into the autocross at the Q when I get back.
    3200# 67 Camaro w/ BB T56 C4 front & rear susp
    Joe

    blown67
    Posts: 49
    (7/27/04 4:15 pm)
    Reply Joe
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    sounds like a nice car i haven't decided whether to go to the autox at the Q or the car show in National City on Sunday.