Weight and Distribution, Page one (from old site)

[chicane67]

blown67
Posts: 23
(7/19/04 8:45 am)
Reply weight
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I have a 67 camaro and this week I scaled the car. It was 1720 front and 1360 in the rear. The corner weight was 50-50. How could i get some weight off of the nose. In addition, from what I understand I think the corner weight is perfect at 50%. Tell me as much as possible about weight and distribution.

Thanks
Deacon

ps How much do your cars weight?

Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 8:46 am

XcYZ
Registered User
Posts: 1307
(7/19/04 11:03 am)
Reply
Re: weight
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One of the easiest things would be to move the battery to the trunk. A fiberglass hood is also a big plus in that respect.
Scott
My 69
Lateral-g.net



camaroboy69
Registered User
Posts: 1397
(7/19/04 11:34 am)
Reply
Re: weight
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If you get real serious you could even do fiberglass fenders, lexan windows....
Adam
My Website 06-25-04

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1192
(7/19/04 12:30 pm)
Reply Re: weight
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Well at 3080lbs, your car is already very light. What exactly have you done so far to get the car down to that weight? My car weighs 3150lbs and I have a lightweight front clip, hollow doors, no back seat, no AC, fuel cell. Also despite my best efforts to move weight around, I still have 51.3% front weight bias.

Are you sure that the scales are accurate? Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just that folks with 3080lb Camaros usually know all there is to know about weight reduction--and then some. It takes a lot of work to shed 400-800 lbs and maximize weight balance.


www.lateral-g.net

Ralph L
Moderator
Posts: 3685
(7/19/04 12:30 pm)
Reply
Re: weight
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Tubular upper and lower control arms, after market discs, a glass hood like Scott said, relocating the battery, forged wheels, aluminum radiator, possibly aluminum heads and intake if you dont have them, will all help to shave some weight.

You could do 'glass fenders and lexan windows like Adam said also. Just keep in mind that the 'glass probably won't line up great, and lexan scratches really easy.
Ralph
Project Fantom Expected Completion - May 2005
My Tahoe - "Black Mamba"
Rendering of Project Fantom

blown67
Posts: 25
(7/19/04 1:08 pm)
Reply MY CAR
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my car is fairly stock in weight. The things that have been done is I moved the battery to the back and I have sparco racing seats, no front bumper.

The scales are the ones used by my Solo2 group in SD, so I think they are accurate.



The mods to the car are as follows.
350 sbc w/b&m 144 blower 6psi boost
t-56 6 speed
79 pontiac ws6 rearend
g-mod
Baer 13 brakes and ws6 rears
hotchkis 600# fronts
landrum 200# rears
biltsteins
hotchkis front bar
minitub
TTII's w/hoosier a3so4 slicks
245/45/17front 315/35/17 rear
full interior

but what I want to know is how far back i should move the engine to get the distribution closer to 50-50

Deacon

Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 1:12 pm

PzeroTA
Registered User
Posts: 83
(7/19/04 1:16 pm)
Reply Re: MY CAR
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Check the scales. A '67 with those mods would weigh 3600-3800lbs.
- Casey
SuperCar X: Information for high-performance design



blown67
Posts: 26
(7/19/04 1:18 pm)
Reply how
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how do you check digital scales
i turned it on zeroed the scales and then rolled the car on

it came up 3080

Deacon

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1195
(7/19/04 2:17 pm)
Reply Re: how
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Yeah..
Sorry Deacon. Ain't no way it's only 3080. Depending on where you live, you can head down to the local oval track speed shop and rent some scales.

Anyway, here's what I did to get my car's weight down. My efforts wil help you understand why your ca must weigh more.

-Replaced stock front clip with ARDF (Wayne Due) front clip.
-Clip accepts forged alum LCA's/tubular steel UCA's, forged alum uprights.
-Clip accepts R&P steering in place of heavy OE steering.
-Engine set back approx 2" (against unmodified firewall)
-Fluidyne aluminum radiator
-Cut inner wheelhouses
-Forged aluminum wheels
-No side glass (hollow doors and lexan rear side glass-fixed)
-12 pt roll cage adds weight but adds it in the middle of the car
-Corbeau 1-piece FIA aluminum driver's seat Carrera pass seat
-No back seat (rear firewall instead)
-No heat or AC
-RCI (yuk) fabricated fuel cell mounted midway thru trunk pan
-Optima battery mounted in trunk.
Weight w/o driver 3150lbs. And mind you, this car still has a steel hood (steel everything), iron small block, RS headlights, bumpers. I just added in a stereo with removable rear speakers and will add functional power door windows so I will be adding 50-75lbs between the windows and the stereo.
There you go
/Steevo

www.lateral-g.net

blown67
Posts: 27
(7/19/04 2:53 pm)
Reply WHATS SO DIFFERENT
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So i don't have your front end but i also don't have a cage
my seats weight 15 lbs a piece my gas tank was probably empty my wheels are torq thrusts about 24lbs i have hoosiers which are about half the weight of street tires, no rs front end, no stereo at all, no ac
do you really think that you've taken off 800 lbs off your car did they weigh 3800 from the factory

The reason i posted this wasn't to brag how light my car was but to seek advice as to how make the car handle better, such as is the corner weight ideal, how can i move weight from front to rear and so on. Maybe the scales are wrong, but then every car tech'd in SD Solo2 is off by 800 lbs also.

Deacon

Edited by: blown67 at: 7/19/04 2:56 pm

harshman
Registered User
Posts: 114
(7/19/04 3:22 pm)
Reply Re: WHATS SO DIFFERENT
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I’m pretty sure that he just gave you some ideas on how to lighten up your car. I think he is also telling you to verify the weight before you do any modifications. If those #'s are true, don't touch a thing ‘cause you have an awesome setup. Mine is 3,500 lbs but that was on a crapy scale.

blown67
Posts: 28
(7/19/04 3:28 pm)
Reply weight
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i understand that 67 ss camaro w/350 weighed about 3480 stock from the factory, but what i want to know is this weight distribution good or is it more important to have 50-50 front to rear distribution

Deacon

gchandle
Registered User
Posts: 96
(7/19/04 4:25 pm)
Reply Weight
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Don't forget that you have a 4l80E which is quite a heavy transmission.


I put the 64 chevelle on the scales at LACR and I got 3125lbs with half a tank of gas. The car is all steel, with stock interior, no radio and no a/c or heater. Iron 350 with aluminum heads, waterpump, and manifold, brass/copper radiator with steel finger guard, TH 350 transmission, 12bolt rear and steel rally wheels.. I guess that the early chevelles can be lighter then the camaros. I want to change out the heavy factory seats, put in an ls1 and change to an aluminum radiator and get some light racing wheels, I hope to get the car down to right 3000lbs.

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1197
(7/19/04 6:23 pm)
Reply Re: Weight
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Quote:
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Tell me as much as possible about weight and distribution.
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I'm trying to tell you as much as possible about weight and distribution. Rule number one about weight and distribution is to establish a qualified baseline. Otherwise we're just chasing our tails. I offered my car up as that baseline so that we have a talking point.

The Wayne Due clip and the parts that work with it (rack, spindle, etc) shed in excess of 200lbs off the nose while improving handling. This is the primary weight reduction element of my car. Plus, my engine is set back almost 2" and I still do not have 50/50 front/rear distribution. So I'm guessing that in addition to that clip, you would have to set your engine well back into the firewall area. And you would have to ditch the heavy, high-mounted blower and/or go to an aluminum block.

If none of the above sounds feasable, just sprinkle more pixie dust on the front half of the car.
/Steevo

www.lateral-g.net

CarlC
Registered User
Posts: 204
(7/19/04 7:11 pm)
Reply
Re: Weight
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3524#

http://www.geocities.com/casanoc


Jim Nilsen
Unregistered User
(7/19/04 10:41 pm)
Reply Power windows.....
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Hey Steevo, I have been looking at power windows for a few years and have found that some installations will actually remove weight over the stock regulators.

If you go to a fiberglass hood and the right hinges you will loose an easy 30# up front and high which will help the weight bias a lot.

My car as it sits without the front clip and a lot of engine accessories and all wiring and 1/2 of the interior currently weighs 2580 with almost exact 50/50 but it has a wedge in the L/R in both the front and rear that is probably from still not being fully loaded and settled in.I expect to add another 250 to 300 max in the completion. It will be easier to keep it off if I know what I am adding vs trying to find a way to take it off. If I can add a/c and still be under 3000# I will probably add it.

My 1st 67 Camaro weighed in at 3010# at a legal scale that was accurrate to within 10#. It had no trunk to really speak of, the quarters were really rusty,the rockers had typical cancer, and the front fenders had some weight reduction from mother nature too. It was as stripped as a car could be . The cool thing was that I had over 100# of various stuff in the trunk at the time. I always figured that I would add at least 100# back on the car just fixing it back up. The car was originally a 6 cyl. car and so is the 67 I am currently building. I once read the weights of the different optioned cars and was really surprised how much the 6 cyl. differred in weight and always wondered if there were other things that contributed to it other than engine weight alone ?

Jim Nilsen

ddennis68
Registered User
Posts: 246
(7/19/04 10:48 pm)
Reply Re: Power windows.....
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How accurate are the "local" scales for state weight. I know they don't do front to rear bias but will they give an accurate total weight. I asked them and they say "of course".
Dennis-

check out progress of Bondobucket

baz67
Registered User
Posts: 177
(7/19/04 11:01 pm)
Reply Re: local scales
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If you are refering to the scales that the states use to weigh trucks, those are not for public use. Unless yo know someone. You could go to a truck stop and use their scales.
Use the ones that can weigh each axle set of a truck. You can just put each one of your axles on a seperate platform and get a seperate axle weight and total weight. You cannot get corner weights though. Those scales have a +- of 100lbs.
Brian

streetfytr68
Registered User
Posts: 1198
(7/20/04 5:35 am)
Reply Custom floor/firewall
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Hi Jim,
How much weight do you think you saved with the fabricated floor and firewall? I'd like to do the same in the next rebuild. It's a lot of work but I think it's worthwhile as long as I have a cage tying the frame together. I will go to a CF hood at that time.
Also, I can't tell from your pix if you grafted the C4 Vette suspension onto the stock subframe or did you build a custom frame? I see your engine is set back 6" Where does that put your #1 spark plug in relation to the front axle centerline?

I got the Electric-Life power regulators. They are pretty light. The door glass is the heaviest component. Fine by me since it is located in the middle of the car. I just hate adding weight. I will re-scale the car after the window install. I hate adding weight though. So I will yank the front bumper and horns at the same time.

www.lateral-g.net

blown67
Posts: 29
(7/20/04 10:00 am)
Reply lets get to real technical answers
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1) I'm not sure but this is what i think.
If the cars corner weight is 50% then the car is balanced perfectly and it shouldn't act any differently in left or right hand corners ... is this correct?
If the front is heavier it will cause the car to understeer a bit more than if it were 50/50 ... is this correct?
From what I understand there isn't a way to move weight from front to rear ... not by removing weight but by changing the rake of the car
I'm not stupid I know how to remove weight from the car what I want to know is how to move weight around and if its necessary with my corner weight at 50/50

2)Any ideas as to how much a 350 and a six speed weight, I would consider moving the motor back as far as necessary to get 50/50 front/rear balance. Has anyone done this? will my headers still fit or is custom exhasut inevitable?

Deacon


camaroboy69
Registered User
Posts: 1404
(7/20/04 10:22 am)
Reply moved
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As stated above, Steevo moved his back about 2"