Build a 600hp naturally aspirated small block!

[Johnny Blaze]

Okay guys,

here is the challange. Build a Natuarlly aspirated small block chevy, that will produce 600hp at the flywheel.

Rules.

350 cu block. overbore max .060"

Crank, Any brand, off the shelf.

Rods, and brand, any length as long as pistons avalible for size.

Pistons. Any brand. Must be off the shelf no custom built.

Compression ratio. Unlimited, but must run with no fear of detenation on 110 octane Sunoco

Cam. No limits.

Valve train, any lifter, pusrod. Rocker arms must be stud mounted ( no shaft stlye.

Heads. Retail price limit of $1300. Porting allowed.

Induction. Cast alumimun single carb intake. Porting allowed.

Carb. Single 4 barral. Any size

Any tube size headers, open exhaust.


So, lets see those recipes!

[68sixspeed]

Well, I just pulled out my 350, granted the heads are beyond that budget, but it makes 530hp on pump gas, just a couple under 550hp with the crankcase vacuum pump hooked; .035" over 350 with an older set of modified tour heads. 10.4:1 compression, decent size roller cam. -Dan

[nitrorocket]

That would be super easy with no cam or compression limits.

You should give a challange, like pumpgas or certain lift limits on the cam.

-Trick flow or dart head, biggest for $1300.(have to look in Summit or Jegs)
-14:1 compression
-.800" lift cam, 270/275 duration
- 650 hp @ 8500 rpm (guess)
- No torque, maybe 450 ftlb.

[68sixspeed]

True, and who's dyno? Let's face it, I think 1/2 or more of them out there are tweaked. Without naming names, there are a couple big name advertisers with 500-600hp street small blocks in all the magazines that are way, way optimistic. I had to laugh at AFR's site the other day, they show 600hp on the 227 heads on the 434 small block with a hydraulic roller around .532 lift. No way, I just put a 427 small block on the dyno with those heads, same compression, and close to 700 lift on a mechanical roller to still fall shy on those numbers with out of the box heads. We'll get there, but it will take rework.

[rocketman]

What about strokin it.
If so try this

350 block .040
eagle 3.875 4140 crank
eagle rods 5.85
srp pistons
makes a 393.
dart heads
12.1 comp
268/264 @ .50 with 6xx/6xx lift
super victor intake
good 850 holley
dynatech headers
will real close to 650.

this is almost my lt1 396 it makes almost 600 hp

[SStrokerAce]

Okay guys,

here is the challange. Build a Natuarlly aspirated small block chevy, that will produce 600hp at the flywheel.

Rules.

350 cu block. overbore max .060"

Crank, Any brand, off the shelf.

Rods, and brand, any length as long as pistons avalible for size.

Pistons. Any brand. Must be off the shelf no custom built.

Compression ratio. Unlimited, but must run with no fear of detenation on 110 octane Sunoco

Cam. No limits.

Valve train, any lifter, pusrod. Rocker arms must be stud mounted ( no shaft stlye.

Heads. Retail price limit of $1300. Porting allowed.

Induction. Cast alumimun single carb intake. Porting allowed.

Carb. Single 4 barral. Any size

Any tube size headers, open exhaust.


So, lets see those recipes!

Well this ain't to hard but you need to loosen up on the total head pricing.

If you have a 4 bolt block lets just say you start from there.

Do you want this run on pump gas or not?

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginem...208PHRSherman/

That is pretty dam close, but I would change a few things since you dont have rules to follow like he did in that contest.

3.75" stroke crank, you can go 4340 but I don't think you are going to need it when a good cast stroker crank will be strong enough. Especially teamed up with lightweight pistons and rods.

For the pistons and rods a set of Eagle Lightweight H beams and Mahle Pro Pack pistons would be my choice.

A Hyd Roller is going to want 230-240 duration and .560"+ lift, The cam he ended up with in that article was aq 234/234 .560 108LSA cam for a 365 cube motor, which is pretty close to what you would want. Run 7/16 studs, Comp Pro Mag Rockers and i'd probably run beehive springs on it as well.

As for the heads you have a ton of good choices. You could get this done with a few different sets of 23 deg SBC heads and have a good head porter go thru them and a Super Vic intake. Dart Pro1's, TFS 23 stuff, Brodix T1, RHS would all be good starting points. I've used most of those and have good experiences with them and I know they are all capable of some killer HP in the right hands. This is really the key to you getting 600hp. Carl Foltz has some bad ass 23 deg sportsman heads under his BMF line that I would look at if it was me.

My personal motor is pretty much what I said here. It's got some goodies in it like the Scat Lightweight Crank, Custom JE pistons, Bowtie Block and some double throw down heads. I just finished a 396 that was over 600hp and it uses a Callies crank, custom Diamond Pistons, TFS heads and Super Vic intake ported by Meaux Racing Heads and a relatively mild hyd roller cam. Thing is a perfectly streetable bad ass motor.

SPEND THE MONEY ON THE HEADS and put a tamer cam in it, you don't need a huge cam to make good power if it's done correctly.

Bret

[Neil B]

Assuming you're talking a Gen 1 23 degree motor:

3.75" crank
215-220cc heads flowing around 300cfm
13:1+ compression
Solid roller with 270 at .050 duration, .650 lift, 108 ls
Good lifters with pressure pin oiling
Ported Vic Jr. or Super Victor
950HP
Sportsman-level shaft rocker setup for the same money as studs/rockers/girdles
4340 rods and crank that'll take 8,000rpm abuse
1 7/8 headers


Here is the combo I have going together, but it breaks some of your ground rules:

4.125" bore Bow Tie Block
3.48" Callies Crank
6" Oliver 4340 rods
13cc dome JE pistons
JE rings
Clevite H rod and main bearings
Canfield 218cc CNC ported heads with additional short-side cleanup
Ferrea 1000 valves
Cam Motion custom solid roller 268/274 at .050, .680/.650 gross lift
220/550 valvesprings
Crower HIPPO lifters
Jesel SS 1.5 shaft rockers
Manton tapered pushrods
2975 Victor Jr. with Wilson intermediate porting
950HP
Cloyes Hex-Adjust double roller timing chain

Should make 600 on a good day.

[justanova]

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...der/index.html

check out the link, they were bound by 12:1 compression and out of the box bowtie/vortec cyl. heads.

Valve train, any lifter, pusrod. Rocker arms must be stud mounted ( no shaft stlye.

truthfully some jesel sportsman shaft rockers will be about the same money as a good set of stud rockers, guideplates, rockers studs, and stud girdles. and are a much better setup.

Sportsman-level shaft rocker setup for the same money as studs/rockers/girdles

[Lowend]

Come-on make it more difficult I've already done this one...
396cid smallblock in Carl Chicca's Camaro

World Sportsman aluminum block 4.030 bore
Crower Sportsman Crank 3.875" stroke
Crower Stroker Sportsman rods 6"
12.5-1 compression
Canfield 220cc heads with heavy porting (~300cfm intake)
Isky Solid roller RR570 (250@050 570 lift) Cam with small base circle and 114 LS.
Isky Gold valvesprings
Edelbrock Supervictor intake manifold
Speed Demon 850 carb with mech secondaries
Crower steel Shaft rockers with 1.52 ratio
Mallory 140gph electric fuelpump mated to a Supercar engineering anti-starvation kit.
Canton Roadrace oldpan.

514RWHP on a Dyna-Pack chassis dyno 2 years ago

[SStrokerAce]

I don't think you need that much cam or compression to get there.

Bret

[Johnny Blaze]

Good responses guys.

I posted this on a camaro site which I used to frequent on, and they based me like I was an idiot!

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...all-block.html

Needless to say, I'm done with that site.

[SStrokerAce]

Johnny,

Bare castings will probably be in the range you are talking about in heads but with the porting they will not be.

The TFS heads I had done for the last motor with intake manifold porting was $1500 in work.

Getting the parts running together is the key, hell i've made 570 hp at the flywheel with a 214/224 hyd roller cam so it can be done. Later on that same motor turned into the one in my sig.

Bret

[Neil B]

Johnny,

Getting the parts running together is the key, hell i've made 570 hp at the flywheel with a 214/224 hyd roller cam so it can be done. Later on that same motor turned into the one in my sig.

Bret

What CID? At what RPM did it make 570hp?

Thanks.

[Lowend]

What was scary about Carl's car is it made all that power @ 5800RPM

[Neil B]

What was scary about Carl's car is it made all that power @ 5800RPM

Makes sense with 396ci and those cam specs.

I'm still scratching my head on StrokerAce's combo with a 214/224 hydraulic cam and 570hp.

[Lowend]

yeah - I'm calling BS on that one unless this is a BIG turbo

[SStrokerAce]

Makes sense with 396ci and those cam specs.

I'm still scratching my head on StrokerAce's combo with a 214/224 hydraulic cam and 570hp.

Call BS on it, I have the dyno charts. I see more motors with TOO much cam and too little compression it makes me sick.

214/224 .560 lift cam, 365 cubes, 570hp @ 6100rpm HP peak, 535ft lbs @ 5000 rpm.

11.8:1 Compression, T1 heads, Super Vic

That's why I do THIS FOR A LIVING!

Bret

[Neil B]

Call BS on it, I have the dyno charts. I see more motors with TOO much cam and too little compression it makes me sick.

214/224 .560 lift cam, 365 cubes, 570hp @ 6100rpm HP peak, 535ft lbs @ 5000 rpm.

11.8:1 Compression, T1 heads, Super Vic

Bret

Brodix T1 M2's? 215 or 227? Killer heads. Sounds like a neat motor.

[SStrokerAce]

No M2 stuff here... Weld Tech. Ron's Porting has a even more killer head but it's too large for my little cube puppy. FWIW a Nextel Cup motor makes about 540 ft lbs or so on a 358 so I'm more proud of the TQ than anything else.

The motor has some changes (more cam) and is what's in the sig now, I'll probably drop the HP 950 and convert the Super Vic over to EFI since I do a lot of those.

Bret

[Lowend]

I did it for a living for 8 years... left for more money
If you have the charts and I would love to see them. Maybe I'm missing something, but that cam should be done before 6K