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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    45
    Qft

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    467
    I'm really enjoying the Holley 950 Pro package. I have about $2900 into it which includes:

    - Really nice V8 MPFI manifold (designed by Cutler Injection)
    - ECU that has a good selection of base maps and controls 8 hi-impedance injectors (which are available with the kit up to 50lb/hr, or aftermarket up to 83lb/hr) and most common igniton systems
    - Wideband O2 sensor and controller, interfaced to the software
    - Gorgeous 4bbl air door with TPS and Idle Air Controller that accepts Holley 4150-sized air cleaners
    - Wiring harness
    - Fuel pump, 2 fuel filters (pre-pump and post-pump) and fittings
    - Fuel rails and crossover fittings
    - Reasonably easy software interface
    - 8 Delphi injectors of your choice between 24 and 50lb/hr
    - Well written instruction book
    - A knowledgable installed base, with a Holley Engineer as the EFI moderator over on Chevytalk.com (Doug Flynn)
    - Knock sensor capabilities
    - Interface to all common ignition triggers
    - Temp based fan controls
    - 2 programmable inputs
    - 2 programmable outputs (although is consumed if you use it to control the fan), that can be triggered by MAP, RPM, TEMP, etc.
    - 2 Aux +5V inputs that can be datalogged
    - Internal Datalog

    It can handle boost, with a simple MAP sensor change, up to 30#.

    You can get the package pretty much any way you want it - without the manifold, just the ECM, ECM and wiring harness, etc. Summit has the best prices that I've found.

    Mine's performing very well on my blown 383. I'm running 8 72-pound injectors and getting around 740HP at the crank.

    Jim

    My Site: http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html
    Don't take a knife to a gunfight.

    Half-Assed = Half-Fast

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Alta Loma,SoCal
    Posts
    396
    I plan to use the Innovate Wideband setup for my Haltech e6x. Once I'm tuned I wont need it very often.
    1965 Buick Skylark

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Beacon Falls, Connecticut
    Posts
    239
    That's the basic gist I've gotten from looking around. A wideband doesn't make sense to use in closed loop. For tuning it's great, but it seems that they're just too expensive to have to replace. Let me know how your setup comes out when you're done.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wilton, CA. (Sacramento)
    Posts
    3,001
    Country Flag: United States
    see below
    Last edited by camcojb; 06-20-2006 at 06:57 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wilton, CA. (Sacramento)
    Posts
    3,001
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by dannyho
    That's the basic gist I've gotten from looking around. A wideband doesn't make sense to use in closed loop. For tuning it's great, but it seems that they're just too expensive to have to replace. Let me know how your setup comes out when you're done.
    First off, many of the aftermarket systems like FAST and BS3 can be closed loop all of the time, including wot. That's a huge advantage especially in forced induction as you can set the a/f to say 12:1 at wot and as long as the fuel mapping is within the range of the computer (up to 25% usually) it can add/subtract fuel to maintain your desired a/f. If you're a bit lean the computer will add it back in automatically.

    Even on a naturally aspirated car I only tune with a wideband as a normal O2 is not accurate away from 14.7:1. Of course you could use a handheld wideband just to tune it and then run standard O2's once it's tuned.

    As far as replacing the widebands, I have only had to replace one in the years I've used them, and that was because the harness melted on the exhaust after some tie straps failed. They are pretty reliable in my opinion.

    Jody

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    583
    Yeah, the bosch wideband sensors are the OE pieces on many VWs (and others I'm sure), so they've got to be good for quite a few miles or there'd be a lot of upset VW owners.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    202
    Country Flag: United States
    If you want to learn your own tuning another option is a GM TPI ECU. It is way cheap and the software to tweak them is readily available and good. It takes a bit more work to get a good understanding, but you can buy a used ECU for $50 and a new wiring harness for $320. They have a tremendous amount of support from forum groups. There are limitations as with everything.

    Good luck

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    1,006
    Country Flag: United States
    For the $3000 dollars that a fully running system costs you may be better off finding an LS1 and having it rebuilt...

    Edit...

    its early - I realized that you aren't running a SBC - please disregard my post.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    4,678
    Country Flag: United States
    As for disregarding megasquirt and "open source code" it really isnt super open unless your int oprogramming C+ programming language.
    Megatune is a completely written program just dont try to use it with Vista yet.
    I have seen 3 very large engines (540, 777 and a 803) all run on Megasquirt.
    The basics you need to look at are what your trying to produce power wise and match injectors and as for the differences between batch fire and sequential is moot at 8000 rpm under boost.
    After seeing the 777 run with a dual injector (ie 8 injectors and NOS fogger setup ran through propane injectors) with a Megasquirt I was VERY impressed and the fact it made 900+hp at theflywheel off the bottle and 1398hp on and it was very tractable around town as the guy had to cruise it at some local cruise joint before running at a track.
    The 3300 lb car ran tire smoking 5.40s and got 11 mpg cruising town(had to make 5 complete trips through that town and it had about a 9 or 10 mile circuit.
    You can order MSII built and ready to install from DIY and they carry the Innovative wideband and as for not needing it on the street for cruising and for regualr use ,that completely silly.
    If you want to look at it take a graph paper and run a 10 by 10 square and plot AF/R on it ,,,then take some graph paper and do it over a 50 by 50 (actually you should use 100 by 100 graph to be true).
    See if you lookat a 10 by 10 you only have 4 up and 4 down to correct, tons of easy over under fuel potential.
    Now if you look at an O2 sensor (regardless of the computer used to read/operate) your band range for high/low is above .8 volts and below .2 volts,,,not a very good plot point and very crude.
    Now with 2.5 volts on both sides the computer has a much greater chance of seeing a potential lean out AND being able to correct for it or give warning/shutdown. The computer is goingto read in .100 v over a larger scale and give you better runnig AF/R and be able to protect your engine.
    Your willing to spend up to $3k on a system but sweat the fact that a
    $150 dollar sensor can/will give you better control/protection from fuel problems?
    While you may spend ,what $350 over using narrow band but the WBO2 can keep you from frying an engine/component completely, I wouldthink this would be a pretty much nobrainer and as for spending $3k on a system because you dont understand the reason for open source code is kind of narrow minded.
    DIY has several setups and what you buy depends on what all you want to control and theneat thing about the MSII is that the ability to upgrade it is nearly endless and continuos. Heck they are gettingthe bugs worked out of COPS ignition and everyone is using those on LSx engines. I am just saving for my MS as I sat back and decided that I like the dare to be different motto.
    I also liek that if pretty much anything in my MS can be bought at local electrobnis store or from DIGI -KEY for chump change to repair but if your set up is well though out rather than well bought out you should have very few problems and the other reason I like it isI am working on a set up to allow flex fuel be incorporated into it.
    I had a guy tell me his BS3 could do it and it wouldnt even start,, man was he POed. And he spend about $5k on his BS3 and assorted hardware and went to one of the big shops to have it installed and tuned.
    So far the limit I have reached in tuning is with injector sizes and being compatable with both E85 and gasoline.
    And we found that being able to run a fuel sensor kept the AF/R much closer.
    Good luck in your search.
    Lee

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Beacon Falls, Connecticut
    Posts
    239
    yea, I've come a long way since i started this thread. But I've leaned towards something in the realm of MSII. check out VEMS, it came out of the megaquirt project but they took it to a whole different level. Not open source, anymore. and the forum support isn't there, but they have a wiki. www.vems.hu

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC, in a house.
    Posts
    32
    Bump. So what did you end up with?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Beacon Falls, Connecticut
    Posts
    239
    I didn't get to get anything done until this summer because I was finishing up an engineering degree and it left me with no time. At any rate I'm going to be getting VEMS. But I won't be able to give an eval of it for a long while. I'm going to paint it soon before it gets cold, then put the efi in it.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC, in a house.
    Posts
    32
    I'll be trying out the Megasquirt2Extra, driving two Ford EDIS coils directly for ignition. Launch control, flat shifting, and table switching (for E85 use) was the appeal to me.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Burbs of Detroit
    Posts
    1,662
    Country Flag: United States
    Running a Pro Flow on my ZZ4. They have 4 vacuum maps that let you adjust timing and injection pulse width (as a percentage of their baseline.) They also have outside services that can locally modify the prom that establishes the baseline.

    Think the intent of pro-flow is to get it running acceptably well and reasonably tunable with a minimum amount of work. Some don't like to, or have time to, or expertise to spend hours fiddling to get the best pulse width for a given engine rpm and manifold vacuum, some are happy with pretty close. Those that want more will ask for more maps and finer controls, and will probably spend time on the rollers to optimize the system





    Note- this message is in response to #19. Didn't rea;lize this thread was this old

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,333
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by Monzsta
    I'll be trying out the Megasquirt2Extra, driving two Ford EDIS coils directly for ignition. Launch control, flat shifting, and table switching (for E85 use) was the appeal to me.
    You may have already thought about this, but be careful switching fuel types. If you're not running the tank dry you won't have E85 after it mixes with the gas (you'll have something in-between depending on what residual was in the tank).
    Red Forman: "The Mustang's front end is problematic; get yourself a Firebird."

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