Hook a Brother Up!!

[alstainlessworks]

Hi Steve

Left you a Vmail, but also wanted to try to help as well.

We make a number of different small block chevy flange styles for various heads. We make a full round 1 5/8" od (1.495 id), full round 1 3/4" (1.62 id), 1 3/4" tall oval that measures about 1.300 wide-id versus 1.55 tall-id), and we also offer a square flange that is 1.55 X 1.55 od (1.42 id). We also offer a "1 7/8" tall oval" that is 1.425X1.675.

We typically use the 1 3/4" tall oval for 1 3/4" headers, 1 7/8" tall oval for 1 7/8" headers, etc. Using the larger flange with the smaller header tube size is possible, but they have to be hammer welded to the port-possible to do but much more time consuming than using the "right" sized flanges. Also, when we build a header, we insert the tube into the flange and weld the tube to the flange on the cylinder head port face-not on the outside of the flange-thus the ID/OD dimensions that I give account for the .065 wall thickness of the tubing being subtracted.

We can also cut flanges from a cylinder head or template to your exhaust ports-we have two trumpf cnc lasers in house and have cut flanges for everything from flatheads to brad anderson top fuel engines.

Our first gen Camaro headers were protoyped on my car-my 67 is lowered about 2 1/2 to 3" in the front and I have never drug the headers. They do hang below the bottom of the subframe rail which parallels the header, but we tucked them up as tight as possible.

Let me know if I can help. My email is [email protected] I am not on the board every day so sometimes emailing me is better.

Thanks
Al
Stainless Works

[Steve Chryssos]

Wow. That's some killer feedback. Thanks Al. I'll give you a call tomorrow.

Here are the pix of my busted as JR $69.95 headers. Car has an aftermarket clip. The frame rails hang 3.5" below the floorboards with full height bushings.
The 3 bolt collector flanges are about 3.25" off the ground (note: The back of the car was on low jackstands so we must eyeball the numbers.) For comparisons sake, the collectors sit 2" below the bottom of the framre rails at the flange. You may also notice that the number 3 spark plug interferes with the number one primary tube. These are ported angled plug World Products Sportsman II heads.

[Steve68]

What the hell are those BJ Alumacoat 5000, you right they are low, My car with the BB and front cut springs(BB) sat about that low, 14" Centerlines auto drags on it too, collector gaskets got eaten monthly!

[HILROD]

The headers on this car are the hedman 1 3/4 long tubes. If I remember right they hand down just barely past the subframe. If you wand I'll get pics or measurements tomorrow. The car har stock subframe stock size aluminum mounts. FRANK

[Damn True]

Hi Steve

Left you a Vmail, but also wanted to try to help as well.

We make a number of different small block chevy flange styles for various heads. We make a full round 1 5/8" od (1.495 id), full round 1 3/4" (1.62 id), 1 3/4" tall oval that measures about 1.300 wide-id versus 1.55 tall-id), and we also offer a square flange that is 1.55 X 1.55 od (1.42 id). We also offer a "1 7/8" tall oval" that is 1.425X1.675.

We typically use the 1 3/4" tall oval for 1 3/4" headers, 1 7/8" tall oval for 1 7/8" headers, etc. Using the larger flange with the smaller header tube size is possible, but they have to be hammer welded to the port-possible to do but much more time consuming than using the "right" sized flanges. Also, when we build a header, we insert the tube into the flange and weld the tube to the flange on the cylinder head port face-not on the outside of the flange-thus the ID/OD dimensions that I give account for the .065 wall thickness of the tubing being subtracted.

We can also cut flanges from a cylinder head or template to your exhaust ports-we have two trumpf cnc lasers in house and have cut flanges for everything from flatheads to brad anderson top fuel engines.

Our first gen Camaro headers were protoyped on my car-my 67 is lowered about 2 1/2 to 3" in the front and I have never drug the headers. They do hang below the bottom of the subframe rail which parallels the header, but we tucked them up as tight as possible.

Let me know if I can help. My email is [email protected] I am not on the board every day so sometimes emailing me is better.

Thanks
Al
Stainless Works

That's what I'm talkin about!

My headers will be bought from you.

[TitoJones]

Steevo-

One word for ya-

Stahl.

Tyler

[Steve68]

Those are pretty Tyler,

[MarkM66]

I'm sure Carl mentioned in his PM, but he has modified his 2131's. I'll post some pictures of my stock 2131's as soon as I can get the car back on the lift. The collector flange points straight down on the driver's side and if you have raised port heads, they're probably going to hit the pitman arm too. Also, even the 2131's are going to be a tight fit on your ports as they only measure approx. 1.5" OD width at the flange.

I'm running Hooker Super Comps on my '70 Nova. Yeah, on the drivers side the flange does point straight down. I though mine were screw ups or something, lol. I have no idea why they did that. I need to ditch them, they're to low.

Also, on Carls I see were a tube has been welded. Where they modified here?

[Steve Chryssos]

Those Stahls are very nice. But as True stated, all roads seem to lead towards Stainless Works. The Hookers and Hedmans both seem to have issues.

Al,
I will pull my headers this evening and accurately measure my exhaust ports. Thank you for the detailed response. I'm sure a lot of other hot rodders with lowered vehicles have the same concerns.

[Steve Chryssos]

The headers on this car are the hedman 1 3/4 long tubes. If I remember right they hand down just barely past the subframe. If you wand I'll get pics or measurements tomorrow. The car har stock subframe stock size aluminum mounts. FRANK

Let's see those pictures. The small exhaust port flange on the Hedmans eleiminate them as a possibility for my specific application, but I'm sure others will benefit from the photos.

[Steve68]

I too am leaning toward SW for my LS1 headers, AL and I did a little e-mail action awhile back,

[Steve Chryssos]

Yeah. If someone has a low output small block where a 1-5/8 header will work, then there are way more options. Shorty and mid headers might even be the right solution for ultimate ground clearance.

But when you step up power, rpm and even basic specs like exhaust port size, it's looking like the $69.95, $250 and $400 headers don't cut it.

Bummer.

[ItsA68]

Tyler,

Do you have any pictures of the Stahl Headers installed on a car? It is REALLY freaking amazing, but I am working right now to look into what headers to get for my 68 project. I have the Brodix Track 1 heads with the D shaped ports though, and I wanted to get something that would match them properly. Im hoping to make close to 600 HP na, and need some decent size tubes. I have searched this board extensively, and have seen you mention Stahl about a bizzillion times! but I haven't seen any of the actual headers on a car. I want max ground clearance, they need to fit the heads, and clear my Unisteer rack. I think I need 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 tubes, and have looked at Stahl, Stainless works, Lemmons, and Headers by Ed. (I think Ed really doesn't sell headers though, he just sells info, and parts to build your own headers.) Stahl seems like they have the most experience, and even made the first set of headers for the first gen cars, plus they can deal with any flange type. Looking at my heads I may be better with 6 bolt to 7 bolt adaptor flanges with the larger tubes.

Steve, I really like your car's look, and if I can even get mine looking almost as good one day, I'll consider myself lucky. I especially like your taste in wheels!

I have direct experience with the 2131 (1 3/4") hookers, and I was not happy with them at all. The tubes go through the flanges, and stick out about 1/8" inch instead of being ground flat with the flange. The so called "O-ring" seal is a load of poo, as it doesn't work. I changed gaskets every 3 months with those. Plus the grease fitting on the idler arm cut a hole in one of the tubes on the pass side, Plus they dragged on any speed bumps that I found. AND to top it off eventually the little oval Hooker badge fell off and left me with a little pin hold leak! Spark plug access was OK with straight plug heads, and they didn't hit any Other places. With a slight re-design, they could be decent I guess, but they'd need to tuck in closer to the floor, and also clear the idler, and have the flanges changed completely.

I'm hoping you guys come up with the answer! as I'm in the same boat as Steve. Won't make the power tour for a few more years, but I am looking for headers now.

~~fred

[Steve Chryssos]

Fred,
Looks like you have even greater issues than me thanks to your D-Ports. You might be able to get adapter plates from Stahl and then shop around for headers.

I wonder if a 1-3/4 Tri Y would provide ample performance? If so, it would be a hot seller. Ground clearance and performance without compromise.

We'll figure it all out.

[CarlC]

You're right Steve, inexpensive is not easier and in most cases does not work for us. Given the headaches with mine, next time I will spend a few bucks more and get it right.

Here's a list of what was done to mine and other considerations.

1) The distance from the bottom of the frame rail to the bottom of the collector flange = 1-7/8"
2) The distance from the floorboard to the bottom of the collector flange = 5-3/8"
3) The distance from the aft subframe vertical edge to the collector flange = 19"

Some things to consider:

A) The car has stock height GW aluminum subframe bushings.
B) The drivers side header flange was cut off and reclocked. As installed from Hooker one of the bolt holes is at 6 o'clock and catches on the pavement.
C) The #7 tube is cut and re-routed for pitman arm clearance.
D) The #2 tube is cut at the cylinder head flange and a new 90* welded on. The original has horrible bolt access on the inside of the 90*, i.e. the second aft bolt.
E) The cylinder head bolt holes are slotted approx 1/4" due to the raised exhaust port design, so normally the head would be 1/4" lower.
F) With the Tremec TKO transmission the engine has more downward angle than stock. Not by much, but you could pick up some additional clearance.


I saw a set of Doug's Tri-Y on a '69Z at Super Chevy Pomona last year. Outstanding fit and clearance. They appeared to be 1-3/4". This is another possible option, along with Lemons and Stahl.

I would not hesitate for a second to go Tri-Y.

[Modo Innovations]

As for ground clearence....I talked to Kyle at DSE some time back and asked the question "which header offers the best ground clearence. Now I know that ride height is a major factor, but take that factor out.
Kyle said, "The best ground clearence...BEST is Stahl, NEXT is Stainless Works, and THEN Hooker Super Comps". I had to choose the Hooker's because of budget, but I would love to have either of the other two in no particular order. My 2 cents.

[David Pozzi]

I've got a pair of 10 year old Stahl 1 3/4" headers but not installed. If you need a dimension off them relative to the head flange, I can extend off that and measure down to the collector for you.

[HILROD]

It has to stop raining here for me to get pics. The ports on the hedmans are big and square. I know these are much bigger than other hedmans I've seen. I had to special order them. I think JEGS carries them. FRANK

[Rick Dorion]

I wish 1 3/4 tri-y's were made. Another option might be Doug's 1 3/4" regular design headers. I think Mean69 has a set of Hedman 1 3/4's he's happy with. They're not the 65003's though but one of the 'race' sets.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yup. Whomever builds 1-5/8" and 1-3/4 Tri-Y's that make power will corner the pro-touring header market. All twelve of us.

Doug's was bought by Pertronix, who trimmed the line. I don't see any good 1-3/4's in their product line. Nothing confidence inspiring anyway.

And Thorley was bought by Jardine. Same issue. Thorley had some cool part numbers. Looks like they got the axe too.