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    1. #61
      Join Date
      May 2002
      Location
      Northern California
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      10,715
      Country Flag: Bosnia Herzegovina
      We usually build a ladder frame that sits between the frame that that cage sits in. It also gets bolted and welded to it. Then the roll cage down bars are also ties into the cell cage. Minimum of .032 thick firewall which is fully sealed from the passenger compartment is a must! I know your not done yet but it looks good so far.

      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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    2. #62
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      346
      What we did on all the cars that we installed cells in this manner was put a rear firewall into the car. This allows the car to retain some sort of impact crush zone, but the trunk is now isolated from the passenger compartment by a sheet of steel. I would recommend doing this. It also increases the rigidity of the car as a whole. Much like the rear seat bracing that was done on the 1987 GNx cars.

      Another good practice is to sandwitch the truck sheetmetal with two layers of tube, [tube - sheetmetal - tube] where the bottom is connected to the top so that the sheetmetal is literaly captured between the two pieces. Sorry I don't have a good picture of what I am talking about. Hope that makes sense.

      The tank is also mounted low enough that if the force of impact was enough to somehow completely seperate it from the trunk it would simple run into the panhard crossmember and rearend.

      Also it is important to note that the forward portion of the trunk on scogin918's camaro is no longer stock. It has been substantially reinforced, I can tell you from experiance you are going to love the way that your car handles when you get it on the road.













    3. #63
      Join Date
      May 2005
      Location
      Houston tx
      Posts
      183
      Country Flag: United States
      How much do one of those cells cost?

    4. #64
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
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      9,583
      Country Flag: United States
      They start around $700. But they are arguably the best in the business.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


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    5. #65
      Join Date
      Dec 2004
      Location
      charleston, SC
      Posts
      853
      Country Flag: United States
      You guys bring up some good points. The perimeter of sheet metal around the basket is pretty stout due to its close proximity to the frame rails. That being said, it wouldn't take much to run another level of tubing underneath the sheet metal that also runs to the frame rails. Welding that in, coupled with all of the bolts that will tie the lid, bladder, case, and basket together, should suffice. To be honest I hadn't thought about the firewall seperating the trunk area.
      The cell cost about $1000 with the surge tank installed to prevent any pick-up issues. The basket cost about $200-$225 materials and labor. I like the idea of seeing the cell and "FUEL SAFE" from behind as well. Plus, I still have something that closely resembles a useful trunk.
      No hard feelings and keep the suggestions coming.
      Robert's 1969 Camaro - 2002 LS1/T56, 10pt cage, Global West Stage III front suspension, HTH truck arm rear suspension, Sprint Cup 9" full-floating rear end, Fikse Mach V 17" up front 18" in the back and still working on it...

    6. #66
      Join Date
      Aug 2003
      Location
      Prescott Valley, AZ
      Posts
      820
      could some of you guys post some pics of your cells please.
      It's shake and bake!!! and i helped!
      Drewco Homes

    7. #67
      Join Date
      Oct 2003
      Location
      Arvada, Co
      Posts
      2,119
      Country Flag: United States
      Andy,

      Shoot Mean69 a PM. I know he has a fuel Safe cell in his 69.
      Brian


      I have an unlimited budget. That bad part is I have already used it up.

    8. #68
      Join Date
      Jul 2003
      Location
      Anaheim Hills, CA
      Posts
      11,967
      Country Flag: United States
      I wonder if this would pass..

      https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/vb...timage&id=1851

      The take sets in a metal "well" .. it's pretty secure.

      Oh, the plastic tank is being ditched and a stainless one is being welded up by Ricks..
      "A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."

      1968 Track Rat Camaro:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGHJ5c1yLIo&t=2s

      1971 Chevelle Wagon with a few mods:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVPR3sRgyU

    9. #69
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
      Posts
      9,583
      Country Flag: United States
      Provided that metal well and it's support sturcture are tied into the subframe, yes.

      22ga of gas weighs almost 150lbs. If that assembly (along with the rest of the car) comes to a sudden stop (as in hitting a wall or another car) will that 150lb mass stay put or rip itself away from the sheetmetal?
      True T.

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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
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    10. #70
      Join Date
      Jul 2003
      Location
      Anaheim Hills, CA
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      11,967
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      Quote Originally Posted by Damn True
      Provided that metal well and it's support sturcture are tied into the subframe, yes.

      22ga of gas weighs almost 150lbs. If that assembly (along with the rest of the car) comes to a sudden stop (as in hitting a wall or another car) will that 150lb mass stay put or rip itself away from the sheetmetal?
      Damn good question.. I will take a look at it. the "box" is welded to the floor but not supported in any other way. I may look at re-inforcing it a bit.. didn't really think of it before. My tank will be 18 gallons but at 6lbs per a gallon it adds up.
      Last edited by Steve1968LS2; 01-30-2006 at 04:52 PM.
      "A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."

      1968 Track Rat Camaro:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGHJ5c1yLIo&t=2s

      1971 Chevelle Wagon with a few mods:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVPR3sRgyU

    11. #71
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
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      6.8lbs

      That structure needs to be tied to the chassis.
      True T.

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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
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    12. #72
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
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      Some good stuff in this thread. Can we get it moved to General Tech/Safety?

      Andrew has a similar thread going there. Might be usefull to combine.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    13. #73
      Join Date
      Dec 2004
      Location
      charleston, SC
      Posts
      853
      Country Flag: United States
      Matt@lateraldynamics, Mr. Quick, gchandler and Dennis 68, could you come up with some better pictures? I looked for about an hour to try to find some way to tie this basket to the framerail. I was planning on welding the trunk pan to the Tube all the way around (from the bottom as well as the seam where the two metals meet) and then run bolts and washers through the tubing to the bottom side of the trunk pan. I can weld some tubing to the bottom of the frame rail and then bring it over to the lip that is welded to the basket.
      As far as the firewall goes, how serious of a firewall? Can I weld up the holes on the back seat frame? What about the package tray? What about speakers? Would that compromise the integrity of the wall? This car will see a road course 4 or 5 times a year, but I don't want to worry about what could happen the idiot behind me rear-ending me while I'm driving around town with my wife.
      Robert's 1969 Camaro - 2002 LS1/T56, 10pt cage, Global West Stage III front suspension, HTH truck arm rear suspension, Sprint Cup 9" full-floating rear end, Fikse Mach V 17" up front 18" in the back and still working on it...

    14. #74
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
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      Mountain View, CA
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      9,583
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      words words words
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    15. #75
      Join Date
      Dec 2003
      Location
      lost
      Posts
      2,607
      Here is the best one I could find of Mark fuel container (not a cell as it is not a certified bladder container)-

    16. #76
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      346
      I spoke with Steve on the phone after work today and it looks like you called him up. I hope he was able to answer all your questions.

      If it was for my personal car I would not worry about tieing it into the framerails. Besides the "framerails" on a camaro are simply sheetmetal anyhow.

      There is a lot of strength in the area where the trunk floor kicks up, and that coupled with the low mounting position of the tank and a good bond to the trunk floor should be more then adequate.

      As for the firewall, I would not put speaker holes in it, that would compromise part of the design. I believe that you would still have enough strength, but you lose the good seperation between the trunk and the passenger compartment.

      On that note I have never been impressed with the stereo in a musclecar and have removed them from both of mine. (I even had a whole setup with my iPod and everything) I think that they look great on paper, but by the time you get down to driving the car you want to hear the engine and the stereo disrupts that.

      I have driven as much as 4000 miles in my '64 chevelle in a single week, and not once did I miss having a stereo. I say give it a try without one, you can always add it later.

    17. #77
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
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      9,583
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      I gotta disagree with you dude. A 22ga cell, full of fuel, weighs well over 150lbs. IMO with that much weight you have got to take advantage of every opportunity to tie the cell support structure to the chassis.
      It wouldn't take much of an impact to tear away something that heavy from an atachment to just the trunk floor sheetmetal. The penalty points for that thing coming loose are too high to screw with. Not something IMO to cut corners on.

      It only costs money and time to make something safer, the cost of not making something safer is a lot more.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    18. #78
      Join Date
      Sep 2001
      Location
      Accord, NY
      Posts
      2,295
      Country Flag: United States
      And then there's the stock tanks which, to me, are a 'pinto problem'. I'd like to add a cell for safety reasons. Has anyone added protective bars around a stock tank to make it more crash resistant? Don't mean to take this thread in a different direction but am interested in gas tank safety.
      69 Camaro convertible, 410, M22, 8-pt cage therapy program. SOLD.
      68 camaro - SOLD
      67 Bel Air - New street project with perfect floors, frame and trunk!

    19. #79
      Join Date
      Aug 2003
      Location
      Prescott Valley, AZ
      Posts
      820
      k.... I'll jump in here.

      I'm trying to understand why there is a basket? It seems to me that the cell has a lip on the top and that should be your mounting point. Keep in mind that I have yet to buy one or see one up close. If my assumption is true then using two beams parallel with the bumper that bolt into the frame and sandwich the cell (bolting that as well) with side beams to match should do the trick (beams – structural steel be it tubing channel etc.).
      It's shake and bake!!! and i helped!
      Drewco Homes

    20. #80
      Join Date
      Dec 2004
      Posts
      63
      Not all cells have a mounting point on the very top, my atl 15 gal asa fuel cell has the lip on just one side of the cell. The basket does protect the cell from damage if you go over a really steep hill so it doesnt rub on the cell, plus if you properly tie it in to the frame it makes for an easy way to get the cell out if you have to quickly and efficently.


      Matt

      Stielow ran a fuel cell in the red witch and the tri tip maybe somebody can post those pictures.

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