1970 GTO Judge

[gtome]

I've been on here a while, and asking tons of questions, so I figured it is time to start a build thread. Might be a good way for me to document, and be my memory for future and past work.
I actually bought this car in 1984 if I remember right (yeah I'm old!), so I guess it's actually time for me to do something with it. I have never driven it, so I'm hopeful I can actually finish it before I die!
This is a real 1970 Orbit Orange 4 speed Judge. Because of its rarity and value, I want to be careful not to do anything that can't be undone. I can't imagine ever selling it, but you never know. I kind of would like to sell it so I can buy something I wouldn't mind cutting up, but this is what I have at the moment.
So far I have purchased a 2012 corvette with 70,000 miles that runs well to scaveng the engine from. I will probably pull the brakes off to use on the GTO, but they are very unattractive so I'm not sure if I will continue with that route. When I bought the car, the owner pulled the rear end out and kept it, and put in a 10 bolt non posi out of a 6 cyl car. I hope to build or have built a 9" Ford. It seems decent used 12 bolt drop in rears are expensive, but if I find a decent deal on one I may do that instead. As I mentioned, I don't want to cut on it much, so no mini tub or the like, so a stock width rear may work. I'm going to use a Holley Terminator to control it and their wiring harness. I also got a free TR 6060 6 speed out of a 2012 camaro that I can use, but that will require tunnel work on my perfect floors. That would be a terrible feeling, but might be better than 5-6k for a TKX.
The body is pretty solid now. Last year I replaced part of the quarter skin around the wheel openings, and the outer part of the outer wheelhouse. Not the ideal way to do it, but I wanted to keep as much original metal as possible. I stripped all the paint I could from it last week, and put it on a rotisserie last night. Next it will get blasted and a couple coats of epoxy primer before going back on the frame for bodywork. I'm going to blast and powdercoat the frame too, but might wait until after the bodywork is done, just in case I get some primer overspray on it. Ordered body bushings for it today, so I hope they come quickly because I hope to have it blasted before Wednesday. I worked with the paint shop to get a match done in the color before stripping the paint. We used the door jambs and trunk to get the color match right on. So that's how it sits at the moment.
I'm hoping for a coil over conversion, and tubular a arms, so I have a decent ride and the ability to adjust ride height. I plan to use Ridler wheels that are a copy of the factory Rally wheels. Most likely be 18" all the way around, but 20's in the rear are a possibility. I'd like to go with a 295 or 305 in the rear, and maybe a 255 in the front.
Most of this hinges on the restoration costs. I'm going to do all of the work, but it's still pricey!
I have the rear valance, and trunk lid ready for color, and I already sprayed the wing just to check out the color.
More to come as I have time. Here are a few random pics I have so far.

[gtome]

Making some progress!

[gtome]

Ready for some bodywork.

[Steve68]

Nice GTO,

I would return that car right back to stock, and find another Pontiac to build, but that's just me, depending how they were optioned those were really nice cars, but it yours, cant wait to see color all over the body,

[gtome]

I'm trying to sell it as we speak. I've had several people interested, but no one has dropped any cash (i am asking a pretty penny though). If I can't sell it, I have no plans to do anything to it that can't easily be undone. I'd love to have something mini tubbed, but I can't do that to this one.
Being a real Orbit Orange 4 speed makes it pretty valuable.

[gtome]

Ordered my wheels today. I don't normally like it, but I went with a 20x10 and an 18x8. These are only about $300 each, so if the size difference bothers me, I will order 18x9.5 for the rear. I picked up a used 305/35r20 rear tire for next to nothing on marketplace to try with the 255/40r18 on the front. We'll see how they work out.

[andrewb70]

I should be ashamed, but I have no idea how rare a 70 Orbit Orange 4 speed Judge is worth. Unless you have all of the original parts, I can't imagine it being worth that much.

Andrew

[gtome]

I have all the parts, but I don't have much interest in a stock car. It would probably do 115-125k done. I guess it's more of the rarity than the value. It is the sought after color which is what makes it so desirable. I would be lynched for doing this to one amongst the purists. That's why I'm not soing anything to it that can't be easily undone.
That said, the 305/35r20 is super tight in there as stock. I might roll the fender and see what that gains me.

[gtome]

It's crazy how wide this tire looks on the ground, and not so much up in the car

[gtome]

I hammered the outer wheel house out today. Also hammer rolled the fender lip. Gave me a bit more room, but that 305 is still pretty snug in there.

[andrewb70]

I hammered the outer wheel house out today. Also hammer rolled the fender lip. Gave me a bit more room, but that 305 is still pretty snug in there.

I use a 305/35-18 in the rear of my 70 and it fits great. Yours is a snug fit because of the tire height more than the width.

Andrew

[gtome]

Yeah I'm really wanting to go with a tucked look. Maybe a 30 series would fit better. If I remember right, a 305/30 is over an inch smaller in diameter. Or I may have to drop down to a 295.

[andrewb70]

Yeah I'm really wanting to go with a tucked look. Maybe a 30 series would fit better. If I remember right, a 305/30 is over an inch smaller in diameter. Or I may have to drop down to a 295.

It is easier to tuck a smaller diameter tire than a larger one. Also, be aware that lowering the rear of these cars significantly will cause driveline angle problems that are not easily addressed.

Andrew

[dhutton]

It is easier to tuck a smaller diameter tire than a larger one. Also, be aware that lowering the rear of these cars significantly will cause driveline angle problems that are not easily addressed.

Andrew

Words of wisdom. Raising the tunnel on these cars is a lot of work based on my experience. So is waiting for the Driveshaft Shop to ship your CV driveshaft if you go that way.

Don

[gtome]

That's interesting. After reading your posts, I went to a tire size comparison website. A 205/75/15 (stock-ish size) is almost exactly the same diameter as a 305/30/20. My goal is to have the rim be just under the wheel lip at ride height. Maybe I will grab a 305/30 and see if that fits better. I prefer the look, and I'm sure the ride, of a 35 series tire, but there will have to be a compromise somewhere.

[dhutton]

Lot of work…

[gtome]

Yeah I won't be doing that! I hope! I'm scared that TR6060 is going to be so big I would have to cut the tunnel. Or spend 6 grand and buy a TKX.

[gtome]

Ok I think I've done all I can do with it. I could hammer the front inner wheelhouse a bit more if I need to, but I think I could run this 305/35/20 if I want to. I would have to get my rear end measure perfectly though. Also this is really just guessing on if the tire is square in the hole. Just a slight movement makes it better or worse. I hope to have it back on the frame by the end of next weekend, so I will know more then.

[dhutton]

I think that will rub when one wheel goes low and the other goes high as entering a steep driveway at an angle.

I think that six speed transmission is going to hurt your driveline angles even more if you don’t cut the tunnel to let you raise the transmission.

[gtome]

It's very possible. I might just kick it down to a 295 so I have some room for error. Might go to a 30 series too. The wheels ship out Monday, so I will have some more info soon.
As for the trans, I'm not 100% sure on it yet. Pretty hard to pass up a free trans though. I will most likely mock it up and see how it looks.