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    Results 1 to 19 of 19
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
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      44

      Single or Dual electric cooling fan, PWM, Holley Terminator questions

      I am upgrading my cooling system before I install my LS2 in my 64 Chevy Nova. My current 380hp 5.3 runs a little warm (220ish) here in Phoenix with a replacement factory sized aluminum radiator and electric fan. The car will see street and road course duty and will have AC.

      I modified the core support to accept a 28x19 inch C&R single pass radiator. I plan to add AC some point down the road. Fan control will be pwm using the Holley Terminator X.

      Cool video here on doing that.

      My first question is should I plan to use a large single electric fan or two smaller dual fans? What brand of fans are reliable but not overpriced?

      Second question is what controller to use, some say the Corvette unit is expensive and not super reliable.

      Thanks in advance for your help.

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
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      You will need a brushless fan to do pwm control with Holley ECU. Spal makes some nice fans. The Monster fan sold by Vintage Air is a Spal fan. Wizard Cooling also sells Spal brushless fans. There are several OEM fans that are Spal and work well.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    3. #3
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      Jul 2008
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      451
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      I run dual fans and wire them like GM does their setup from the factory. Look up LS1 fan wiring diagram, uses 3 relays, puts the fans in series on low so they're both running off 6 volts each, pull a lot of air and you can't hear them, then when high kicks in both fans go parallel and get 12 volts each. Works like a charm, just the way they were engineered to do so.

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/13WU...usp=share_link

      *Jeff*
      Project Salty - 1964 4 door Malibu, beaten, neglected, red headed foster child
      Cammed LQ4 / T56 Swap Project Thread <-click to read! 😁


    4. #4
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
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      You can run brushed fans pwm with a fan controller like the C6 corvette used but it really is better using a brushless fan. One less thing to purchase, mount, and wire.

      Large single vs smaller duals. What gets you the most core coverage? 19" fan is about 280 square inches and dual 14" is about 305 square inches......about 10% more coverage on the core.

      I like dual fans on applications with an oil cooler as well as I can put it in front of a fan and build a fan strategy for that one independent of the other. So one fan would have coolers and coolant on the table and the other would have AC and coolant on the table.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
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      44
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      You will need a brushless fan to do pwm control with Holley ECU. Spal makes some nice fans. The Monster fan sold by Vintage Air is a Spal fan. Wizard Cooling also sells Spal brushless fans. There are several OEM fans that are Spal and work well.

      Don
      Thanks Don

      Quote Originally Posted by Hotwire View Post
      I run dual fans and wire them like GM does their setup from the factory. Look up LS1 fan wiring diagram, uses 3 relays, puts the fans in series on low so they're both running off 6 volts each, pull a lot of air and you can't hear them, then when high kicks in both fans go parallel and get 12 volts each. Works like a charm, just the way they were engineered to do so.

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/13WU...usp=share_link
      I could do that but the Holley enables me to setup tables for further options such as Temperature vs Fan Speed % and AC kick. If I wasn't using the Holley I would go your route. Thanks for the info.

      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      You can run brushed fans PWM with a fan controller like the C6 corvette used but it really is better using a brushless fan. One less thing to purchase, mount, and wire.

      Large single vs smaller duals. What gets you the most core coverage? 19" fan is about 280 square inches and dual 14" is about 305 square inches......about 10% more coverage on the core.

      I like dual fans on applications with an oil cooler as well as I can put it in front of a fan and build a fan strategy for that one independent of the other. So one fan would have coolers and coolant on the table and the other would have AC and coolant on the table.
      So ideally I should run a controller with a brushed fan PWM and its not required on a brushless with PWM, is that correct?

      I have the ability to run up to a single 16" fan or I can run dual 10" fans based on my fan shroud size which is 24" x 17". Depending on the fan(s) layout I may do some cutouts covered with rubber flaps for higher speed air removal from the shroud, not sure yet.

      I am running a manual trans and a remote bar type PS cooler. So the only things the fans will be required to cool will be the engine and the AC condenser (once mounted).

      Thanks again for the info.

    6. #6
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      Sep 2010
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      All fans need a controller to run pwm. The Spal brushless and many GM fans have the controller built in so you do not need a separate controller for PWM operation.

      Does that fan shroud cover all of your core? If not get rid of it. Andrew has been using Chevy Volt fans, he posted the dimensions somewhere as that may be an option. Otherwise Wizard Cooling has universal shrouds with brushless fans.

      Post the actual size of your radiator core, not the whole radiator. There may be other options.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    7. #7
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      Apr 2009
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      44
      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      All fans need a controller to run pwm. The Spal brushless and many GM fans have the controller built in so you do not need a separate controller for PWM operation.

      Does that fan shroud cover all of your core? If not get rid of it. Andrew has been using Chevy Volt fans, he posted the dimensions somewhere as that may be an option. Otherwise Wizard Cooling has universal shrouds with brushless fans.

      Post the actual size of your radiator core, not the whole radiator. There may be other options.
      I just built the shroud last week and yes it covers 100% of the core which measures 24x17. The radiator measures 28x19.

    8. #8
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      Okay, that may have been cart before the horse. The Spal brushless fans need quite a bit of depth in the shroud to work. I would run two 12" fans.

      For future reference, pick your fans first, then build your shroud to fit the fans.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
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      44
      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      Okay, that may have been cart before the horse. The Spal brushless fans need quite a bit of depth in the shroud to work. I would run two 12" fans.

      For future reference, pick your fans first, then build your shroud to fit the fans.
      Not sure I am following, I modified my radiator core to fit a much larger racing C&R radiator, I built the aluminum fan shroud to fit the radiator. Now its time to select a cooling fan or fans. I have not cut the new fan shroud yet, so it will accommodate any fan that I choose.....

      It sucks that Summit or Jegs don't have a "brushless" fan filter selection. Most don't even list in the description. Takes a bit of research to determine what is and what isn't brushless.

    10. #10
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      Nov 2006
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      Mountain Springs, Texas
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      Andrew has had good luck with Chevy Volt fans if I remember right.
      https://www.ebay.com/itm/15347066189...Condition=3000
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    11. #11
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      Apr 2006
      Location
      Des Moines, IA
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      The radiator "core" is the part of the radiator with fins on it. The part that does the actual cooling.

      What Donny is saying is that some of the SPAL brushless fans don't have a "typical shroud".
      Many of them mount toward the top of the fan shroud, like this:
      Name:  6853.png
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      As you can see, this will require a lot of depth built into the shroud.

      If you end up running brushed fans and would like a pwm controller, consider this option:
      https://creativewerksinc.com/product...wm-controller/
      https://creativewerksinc.com/product/pwm-controller/
      Name:  pwm-controller-white-01-600x400.jpg
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Size:  32.7 KB

      The main advantages are that you have multiple different sensor options (1/8"NPT, 3/8" NPT, metric), or you can have an OE or Aftermarket ECU send the fan controller a PWM signal. This allows all fan cooling strategy to be programmed on the ECU side.
      CAN functionality is coming in the near future (then you don't need a sensor, just pick up the coolant temp off the CAN bus. . .or MAP sensor, or TPS, or any data on the bus that could be used to control a brushed motor)
      There's a LED so you get feedback as to what the fan is (or should) be doing.
      You can program everything with a PC if you choose, or it'll come pre-programmed ready to plug in.
      100% made in the USA.

    12. #12
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      Apr 2001
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      The City of Fountains
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      Quote Originally Posted by sqrlnts View Post
      I am upgrading my cooling system before I install my LS2 in my 64 Chevy Nova. My current 380hp 5.3 runs a little warm (220ish) here in Phoenix with a replacement factory sized aluminum radiator and electric fan. The car will see street and road course duty and will have AC.

      I modified the core support to accept a 28x19 inch C&R single pass radiator. I plan to add AC some point down the road. Fan control will be pwm using the Holley Terminator X.

      Cool video here on doing that.

      My first question is should I plan to use a large single electric fan or two smaller dual fans? What brand of fans are reliable but not overpriced?

      Second question is what controller to use, some say the Corvette unit is expensive and not super reliable.

      Thanks in advance for your help.
      Thanks for referencing my video. You might also check out this one:



      The decision as to whether you run a single or dual fans largely depends on what will fit the radiator core the best. For more square radiators, I would choose the C7 Corvette fan (600 watts) or the 6th Gen Camaro fan (850 watts). If your radiator core is more rectangular, then the Chevrolet Volt fans (300 watts each) are a good options.

      If you need help with the Holley EFI tuning, or wiring suggestions, shoot me an email: projectgattago at gmail dot com

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Posts
      44
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      Andrew has had good luck with Chevy Volt fans if I remember right.
      https://www.ebay.com/itm/15347066189...Condition=3000
      Thanks for the link. Totally helps to picture the packaging challenges.

      Quote Originally Posted by marolf101x View Post
      The radiator "core" is the part of the radiator with fins on it. The part that does the actual cooling.

      What Donny is saying is that some of the SPAL brushless fans don't have a "typical shroud".
      Many of them mount toward the top of the fan shroud, like this:
      As you can see, this will require a lot of depth built into the shroud.

      If you end up running brushed fans and would like a pwm controller, consider this option:
      https://creativewerksinc.com/product...wm-controller/
      https://creativewerksinc.com/product/pwm-controller/


      The main advantages are that you have multiple different sensor options (1/8"NPT, 3/8" NPT, metric), or you can have an OE or Aftermarket ECU send the fan controller a PWM signal. This allows all fan cooling strategy to be programmed on the ECU side.
      CAN functionality is coming in the near future (then you don't need a sensor, just pick up the coolant temp off the CAN bus. . .or MAP sensor, or TPS, or any data on the bus that could be used to control a brushed motor)
      There's a LED so you get feedback as to what the fan is (or should) be doing.
      You can program everything with a PC if you choose, or it'll come pre-programmed ready to plug in.
      100% made in the USA.
      Roger, this all totally makes sense now what Donny was saying. I didn't realize those fans would require a totally different mounting strategy. Thanks for the additional controller info, I will read up on it. Seems like the 16" SPAL I want to run is widely not available. May end up going this route.

      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      Thanks for referencing my video. You might also check out this one:

      The decision as to whether you run a single or dual fans largely depends on what will fit the radiator core the best. For more square radiators, I would choose the C7 Corvette fan (600 watts) or the 6th Gen Camaro fan (850 watts). If your radiator core is more rectangular, then the Chevrolet Volt fans (300 watts each) are a good options.

      If you need help with the Holley EFI tuning, or wiring suggestions, shoot me an email: projectgattago at gmail dot com

      Andrew
      Thanks for making and sharing those videos they are great. I have stored your email for future reference, I appreciate that.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      15,970
      Country Flag: United States
      If you want a single fan, look at the C7 Corvette fan
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Posts
      44
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      If you want a single fan, look at the C7 Corvette fan
      The dimensions of the C7 radiator is very similar to mine, and the price looks attractive. Are the fan and shroud molded as one piece or do they separate? I am afraid with my time constraints before Scottsdale Goodguys AutoX next month I might not have enough time to physically make that work. Any thoughts on using the Creative Werks pwm controller above with a traditional brushed fan?
      Thanks.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Des Moines, IA
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      586
      Country Flag: United States
      I agree with Andrew. . .the SPAL brushless fans are very nice.

      If you need a brushed 16" fan you can look here:
      https://gccooling.com/product-catego...gfans/16-fans/

      Long story short, long ago I worked for SPAL; General Cab (GC) made the motors; SPAL did the injection molding of plastic parts.
      Two old Italian guys got in a "huff", told each other to pound sand, SPAL started winding motors, GC purchased injection molding machines.

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Posts
      44
      Quote Originally Posted by marolf101x View Post
      I agree with Andrew. . .the SPAL brushless fans are very nice.

      If you need a brushed 16" fan you can look here:
      https://gccooling.com/product-catego...gfans/16-fans/

      Long story short, long ago I worked for SPAL; General Cab (GC) made the motors; SPAL did the injection molding of plastic parts.
      Two old Italian guys got in a "huff", told each other to pound sand, SPAL started winding motors, GC purchased injection molding machines.
      Do you know if they are loud? Louder than a curved blade design? I've read straight blades move more air but are louder. Thanks for the link!

    18. #18
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      Apr 2006
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      Des Moines, IA
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      586
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      Straight blade do move more air, but are louder, you are correct.
      Thick paddle blades are my personal favorite, but they require a lot of space.

      Noise is mitigated by using the pwm controller. It starts the fan at 50% speed, and ramps up to whatever is required.

    19. #19
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      Apr 2001
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      The City of Fountains
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      For what it's worth, the C6 Corvette fan that I use in my Cougar barely makes any noise under normal operation.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her





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