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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jul 2017
      Location
      Island Lake, IL
      Posts
      131
      Country Flag: United States

      Anyone have regrets after doing a modern engine swap?

      Curious to see if anyone besides myself has any negative/regret opinions on doing an engine swap. I don't care if you're doing a Coyote, Godzilla, modern HEMI, Hellcat, LT, LS or whatever other swap.

      I'm not sure why but I've been having this come up in my head the further I go into my engine swap. I enjoy the hot rodding aspect of modifying and upgrading my car but, I'm not going to lie, I sometimes wish I could go back to having the car be a somewhat traditional/original V8 again. I guess at this point I'm somewhat annoyed with everything I touch needing something from a different car or some form of "swap" part from some specialized supplier, warehouse or whatever else. I appreciate the modern engines and what they provide (why I started my swap in the first place) but sometimes I wish I could be able to go to the store when needed for the basic things such as radiator hoses, accessory belts, gaskets, motor mounts, water pump, fuel system components, ignition parts, exhaust, etc.

      Pictured below is my LS1 for my '79 Firebird, for instance. Nice engine, aluminum block, completely rebuilt, blah, blah, blah. I love the engine but everything needs to be addressed to fit in the car. Custom hoses, custom fuel system, custom oiling system, custom exhaust, custom engine accessories, custom cooling system, aftermarket efi, etc. Modifying everything.....then making it appear original again like many of us do because "I wanted to make it look stock".

      Why didn't I just install a roller cam, good exhaust and aluminum heads on my original engine?
      Anyone have regrets or similar thoughts after chasing down the newer style engines?



      Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Posts
      641
      I wouldn't build anything unless it had a late model motor. I'm a LS guy. I'm building a 80 Camaro. L92 dressed to look like a LS3. I don't try to hide the fact that its a LS. My 80 was a V6 three speed car. I did see a really nicely done 80 C10 this summer at a local car show with a LS swap and if you didn't know what you were looking at it really looked like a SBC.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Oct 2010
      Location
      SLC
      Posts
      590
      I've done one LS swap and one 5.0 HO efi (just the fuel injection stuff) on a 289. I love that both cars start immediately no matter how long they sit. I didn't make any attempt to make them look like the engines that belonged to the car originally and honestly that's not something that I'm all that interested in. However I do like what you have done with the ls in the picture. I don't have any regrets, but maybe some things I would have done differently ( or maybe will correct some day)

      for the LS swap, I still haven't fabricated a proper airbox, and I wish I would have installed a different intake manifold with the throttle body on top, so I could mount the air filter on top of the engine and more easily make use of my hood scoop. I went with the GMPP ECU, which isn't the easiest to tune. if I had to do it again, I would use the Holley Terminator. I still need to add an accusump, or dry sump oil system. It sounds like LS engines aren't Priority main oiling systems and its easy to have oiling issues at high lateral forces, but i'm not sure the old ford engines are totally exempt from this either. Lastly I really do like the sound of the Ford firing order, and now that I have an LS in my mustang, I am tempted to fabricate some headers that make it sound more like a ford, but honestly that was just one of the tradeoffs. If I really went to that effort, i would end up doing 180* headers, or an 8 to 1 header instead.

      Sure I could have built a stroked 351 with better performance...at 3x the price. There is a place for nostalgic engines and LS swaps are not at all unique, but My goals for my mustang were purely performance and drivability, and for the price the LS at the time was the clear winner. (I bought my LS the year before the Coyote was released, and at that time there weren't many good modern options from ford that could fit within my budget....or my engine bay)

      for the 5.0 HO EFI swap, I spent as little money as possible and the result was a massive increase in reliability and drivability with a noticeable decrease in power. With a bigger budget I would have used a better intake manifold to match the edelbrock heads and the cam that my 289 was running. then I would probably swap the ECU for a megasquirt so that I could tune it. But despite the loss of performance, the low end torque is much better, the driveability is fantastic, the car doesn't smell like gasoline all the time. and all the old ford EFI stuff is super easy to troubleshoot and maintain. With all the mismatched pieces, I regret not just swapping an entire 5.0 ho engine.


      Final thought. I have had good experiences with Holleys EFI systems, and this makes some of the older engines a much more viable option. I am wanting to swap out out my 289 for a 408 with the holley terminator X fuel injection. either that or the PRO-M system. I already have the 408 short block, but if I pull the trigger on this I think the LS swap might still be cheaper than finishing the 408.

      to anyone that knows what an LS looks like, no amount of disguising will fool them.
      Zach

      1970 Mach 1 build - Half-Breed (pro-touring.com)

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      No regrets on multiple builds with modern drivetrains. The builds I do regret were old school carbureted builds….

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Atlanta, GA
      Posts
      128
      NOPE-

      I've owned my Corvette since 1981- originally a LS5 Big block with a 4-speed- even have the build sheet.

      However when I bought it 40 years ago - the original motor was long gone- somebody had put rear flares and a rollbar on it.

      Now it makes NCRS guys wanna throw up- as it has a BMW V12 and 5 speed- and lots of other modern goodies-
      custom built intake with 6 pair of 40mm ITBs - coil on plug- electric power steering-
      with a rack and pinion-electric headlights- electric wiper door - coil overs- etc....

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    6. #6
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Walla Walla, WA
      Posts
      1,505
      Country Flag: United States
      I can't imagine how much I'd hate my '68 Camaro with a SBC/BBC - Muncie drive train. I like to drive my car, and the reliability, power and fuel economy of the LS3/T56 package is simply wonderful.

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      Mike Kelcy - '68 Camaro with some stuff done to it.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
      Posts
      1,364
      Country Flag: Canada
      Yea no, Id never consider going backwards lol.
      Matt
      72 Chevelle 370ci, 76mm single turbo, TKX, Speedtech Track Time, Millerbuilt Strange full floater 9", Brembo brakes, BC Forged 18x11s with 315s square
      Instagram: Cst_koon

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      239
      Keeps the brain engaged and functioning, and keeps the economy and the hot rod industry in business. Keep spending money, new technology is out there. And, some folks still run flatheads......

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Your perspective is not uncommon.

      The issue is that these types of swaps look very easy when viewed on a computer. To make a swap like yours functional, reliable, easy to work on, and have a great appearance, that is much more difficult.

      There is certainly a very steep learning curve. The 2nd and 3rd swap will be much easier, plus you'll know what parts worked and what don't.

      As Mike mentions above, really driving the car on long distance trips is so much nicer with a modern engine. I took the Camaro on a 4500 mile circle of the Western United States earlier this month. I wouldn't even think of driving it to the top of Pike's Peak with a carburetor. As it was, it was totally seamless.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Feb 2011
      Posts
      284
      I miss the sound and look of the Pontiac. But not the leaks, hard starting, overheating, smoking, and worrying about what will go wrong next. And in my case it has probably reduced the value of the car, even though it has twice the power and better driveability; No Pontiac guy would even look at it now.
      70 GTO - Alum 5.3/4L80e, 7875
      17 GT350

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Michigan
      Posts
      322
      Country Flag: United States
      I think it all depends on your goals for the car. If you're not after any more than roughly 1 hp per cubic inch, carbureted old school motors can still be reliable, cost effective, and reasonably efficient, especially with modern heads. It does take some planning and restraint - you can't build a huge cam/big carb/stock heads 80's style drag race motor and expect great drivability. Retrofit EFI systems are getting better and more affordable all the time too.

      Newer motors will almost always be lighter and more efficient at a given power level. Like most other things in this hobby, it just boils down to personal preference.
      - Ryan

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Jacksonville, FL
      Posts
      1,651
      Country Flag: United States
      I did the LT1 (gen2) swap in 2001 and the current LS3 in 2010. No regrets at all.
      Chris
      1968 Chevy Camaro SS
      LS3/T56 DSE suspension


    13. #13
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      424
      but sometimes I wish I could be able to go to the store when needed for the basic things such as radiator hoses, accessory belts, gaskets, motor mounts, water pump, fuel system components, ignition parts, exhaust, etc.
      Don't get a Mopar. The parts-store experience is like that when you keep the original motor.



      You might assume that makes it a no-brainer for us to run a modern junkyard Hemi for a PT build.

      But no, that would be too easy. So the factory played another joke on us: the modern Hemi engine blocks are all still cast iron. They weigh about 190 lbs.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      Posts
      1,414
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor5588 View Post
      I miss the sound and look of the Pontiac. But not the leaks, hard starting, overheating, smoking, and worrying about what will go wrong next. And in my case it has probably reduced the value of the car, even though it has twice the power and better driveability; No Pontiac guy would even look at it now.
      100% agree with this. I don't regret doing my swap at all. It's a much better driver, more efficient, and less of a pain all around.


      Ridetech Suspsension
      Tech Specialist
      Phone: 812.481.4734

      Project Fox
      1979 Trans Am

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      DFW, TX
      Posts
      119
      Country Flag: United States
      Love the LS3/t56, fuel injection and modern gages & wiring! Would never go back!!!!
      1978 Pontiac Trans Am Y88-R,
      UMI Performace, LS3/T56 Holley EFI

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Posts
      2,544
      Country Flag: United States
      I wanted fuel injection, hydraulic roller valvetrain, aluminum heads, and overdrive. By the time I added all that up to retrofit, it was less expensive to swap a used LS/trans that had all that.

      There was a guy on the Pontiac forum that did swap and later swap-back. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=712051&page=2
      Red Forman: "The Mustang's front end is problematic; get yourself a Firebird."

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Martinez, CA
      Posts
      184
      Country Flag: United States
      I love the late model stuff. Yeah they’re a little more difficult/expensive up front but they just run and run. I did my latest swap, an LFX V6-6 speed auto in my 66 Chevelle purely for mpg. It’s now the most fuel efficient car I own and as reliable as anything I own.
      As far as all the “custom parts” like hoses, belts, fuel pumps, etc, once you’ve sourced them from some other application you have the numbers if you ever need them again.
      Worlds Fastest LFX powered 1966 Chevelle, with a 3.6L/217 CI, 4 cam direct injected V6, 6 speed auto, full Hotchkis suspension, 4 wheel Wilwood discs, white w/red interior, cowl hood. 3260 lbs w/full tank. Built for 35 mpg. So far 32.

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      424
      I'm always curious about how these new motors would sound if they were cammed more like the old ones. It seems like modern roller cams are the main cause of the "modern V8 sound".

      Yeah, it would be a step backwards for driveability/MPG. So what? I think a lot of guys in the classic car hobby would be willing to make that trade. (Or maybe a compromise between the new & old.) You would still have the new engine's EFI, lighter weight, reduced fluid leaks, better cooling, etc.

      -----------------

      I love the late model stuff. Yeah they’re a little more difficult/expensive up front but they just run and run. I did my latest swap, an LFX V6-6 speed auto in my 66 Chevelle purely for mpg. It’s now the most fuel efficient car I own and as reliable as anything I own.
      As far as all the “custom parts” like hoses, belts, fuel pumps, etc, once you’ve sourced them from some other application you have the numbers if you ever need them again.
      Your V6 Chevelle seems really interesting. I'm amazed you got the car so lightweight even with the engine being what it is.

      Does the 6spd auto feel a lot different from a 3 or 4 spd auto? That trans must be heavy. And I feel like an automatic doesn't benefit from more gears as much as a manual does. At least not in the street-cruiser sense.

      The OEMs keep piling on the extra gears but I think some of that is for looking good on paper. Gaming the federal MPG testing, and putting up impressive numbers in car magazine tests. (I mean, 8-speed automatics? Really?)

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Martinez, CA
      Posts
      184
      Country Flag: United States
      Does the 6spd auto feel a lot different from a 3 or 4 spd auto? That trans must be heavy. And I feel like an automatic doesn't benefit from more gears as much as a manual does. At least not in the street-cruiser sense.

      The OEMs keep piling on the extra gears but I think some of that is for looking good on paper. Gaming the federal MPG testing, and putting up impressive numbers in car magazine tests. (I mean, 8-speed automatics? Really?)

      [/QUOTE]

      The 6 speed does feel a lot different than a 3 or 4 speed. The engine does not need to pull as high in each gear so it stays in the more efficient operating zone. It’s actually quite nice.
      But I get what you mean about piling on gears. At some point what is to many.
      Worlds Fastest LFX powered 1966 Chevelle, with a 3.6L/217 CI, 4 cam direct injected V6, 6 speed auto, full Hotchkis suspension, 4 wheel Wilwood discs, white w/red interior, cowl hood. 3260 lbs w/full tank. Built for 35 mpg. So far 32.

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Posts
      362
      Country Flag: United States
      I love my 6.0 in my 67 Chevelle. Just put 500 miles on it this weekend including 50 miles of expressway at 75-80mph and averaged 22.8 mpg. What's not to like?
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      My half a$$ed build thread.https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...elle-6-0-4L60E

      Tighten it till it strips & back it off a quarter turn.

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