Brake light turn signal issue

[BadBird68]

Hey guys. So I purchased a 1968 Firebird. It appears to have had an 18 circuit painless system installed. When I picked it up the rear of the car had everything in it but non of the lights worked. I ordered new sockets and replace them and ensured I had good grounding to the housing. So I got my brake lights to work and my turn signals to work... Kind of.... I hit my brakes and they all come in like they are supposed to... I hit my brakes and turn the left turn signal on and everything seems to work as it should... I hit the brakes turn the right turn signal in and my left brake light extinguishes and the right turn signal works as it should. What would he making my left brake light extinguish when I turn my right turn signal on?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don’t seem to have any power going to my running lights in the back either. Could that have something to do with it?

[Jim Streib]

Do you have a test light and/or a voltmeter and know how to use them ?.

I would then start with taking out all of the rear bulbs and testing each socket to see what terminals have power with the parking lights on then which terminals would then have power with the parking lights off but the brake lights on, and then with the parking lights off and the brakes off with the left turn signal activated and then the right. I would then verify you have a good ground, not so much visually, but electrically using the test light and/or volt meter.

Keep in mind that some sockets may require an 1157 bulb that has the double filament and these sockets if not grounded well can backfeed electricity in an unwanted way. If for example the combination left turn signal/brake light bulb and parking light bulb did not have a good ground, then when the brakes are applied you could be sending power back to the brake light bulb but now also backfeeds power into the parking light circuit to where then the parking lights would also come on and not at full brightness as the connections are in a series setup and instead of bulbs receiving full 12v or so, each bulb then might only be getting 3 volts and during the daylight it might be hard to see this barely lit up bulb or you may be thinking a bulb is going off but instead has just a small amount of power going to it and you cannot see this light being lit up just a tad.

If you can take some pictures off all of the new sockets you added and what wires got connected from each.

If things do not test out properly in the back, you might have to then go to the turn signal connector on the column for some testing and "may" find out you have a turn signal switch issue.

Jim

[blitzer454]

The problem could be related to the non-functional tail-lights and I would start by fixing that problem first. The tail-lights get their power directly from the light switch so I would start by checking to see if power is getting to the light switch then check to see if power is coming out of the light switch's brown tail light wire when the switch is on.

The brake light problem could also be a bad switch in the steering column. Although you might try swapping the bulb from left to right and see if the problem follows the bulb.

[BadBird68]

I was thinking it may be related to the taillight issue also. I accidentally grounded the brown wire when i turned the lights on. The brown wire instantly lost power. I checked all the fuses and all were good. And the headlights still worked. Now I get zero power to my brown wires in the back. What could have happened if it did not blow a fuse?

[BadBird68]

Do you have a test light and/or a voltmeter and know how to use them ?.

I would then start with taking out all of the rear bulbs and testing each socket to see what terminals have power with the parking lights on then which terminals would then have power with the parking lights off but the brake lights on, and then with the parking lights off and the brakes off with the left turn signal activated and then the right. I would then verify you have a good ground, not so much visually, but electrically using the test light and/or volt meter.

Keep in mind that some sockets may require an 1157 bulb that has the double filament and these sockets if not grounded well can backfeed electricity in an unwanted way. If for example the combination left turn signal/brake light bulb and parking light bulb did not have a good ground, then when the brakes are applied you could be sending power back to the brake light bulb but now also backfeeds power into the parking light circuit to where then the parking lights would also come on and not at full brightness as the connections are in a series setup and instead of bulbs receiving full 12v or so, each bulb then might only be getting 3 volts and during the daylight it might be hard to see this barely lit up bulb or you may be thinking a bulb is going off but instead has just a small amount of power going to it and you cannot see this light being lit up just a tad.

If you can take some pictures off all of the new sockets you added and what wires got connected from each.

If things do not test out properly in the back, you might have to then go to the turn signal connector on the column for some testing and "may" find out you have a turn signal switch issue.

Jim

Jim I do have a test light and meter and know how to use them. All my grounding seems to be good the lights are bright. I’ll do some checking on the back feeding you were talking about.

[blitzer454]

I was thinking it may be related to the taillight issue also. I accidentally grounded the brown wire when i turned the lights on. The brown wire instantly lost power. I checked all the fuses and all were good. And the headlights still worked. Now I get zero power to my brown wires in the back. What could have happened if it did not blow a fuse?

I think you must have blown the fuse for the tail-light power. Check the voltage on the orange wire at the light switch as this is the fused power feed for the tail-lights. Also check the red wire as long as you're in there, which should have 12v all the time.

[BadBird68]

I think you must have blown the fuse for the tail-light power. Check the voltage on the orange wire at the light switch as this is the fused power feed for the tail-lights. Also check the red wire as long as you're in there, which should have 12v all the time.

So the switch acts as a fused link? I have a red wire that is just hanging from the dash unattached but I have done any research on what that wire is. It doesn’t have any power on it. Sounds like my next step is pull the switch out and check it.

[blitzer454]

So the switch acts as a fused link? I have a red wire that is just hanging from the dash unattached but I have done any research on what that wire is. It doesn’t have any power on it. Sounds like my next step is pull the switch out and check it.

No the orange wire goes to a fuse in the fuse block.

[BadBird68]

No the orange wire goes to a fuse in the fuse block.

Awesome! Thanks for the advice guys! I have some places to check.

[Jim Streib]

Jim I do have a test light and meter and know how to use them. All my grounding seems to be good the lights are bright. I’ll do some checking on the back feeding you were talking about.

I wasn't trying to be an azz when I asked this but you never know sometimes .

You might have to pull up a diagram to see what fuse and/or wire in the aftermarket wiring is for the parking lights. Sometimes original headlight switches have circuit breakers in them protecting the output wiring going to the floor dimmer switch and then out to the headlights with it's own feed into the switch for the headlights while the parking light portion of the headlight switch has a fused wire from the fuse block and then past the switch has the connections to the parking lights. Basically two independent sources of power going into the headlight switch BUT now with aftermarket wiring, who knows how things were actually done.

Yep, go through some kind of logical progression in your troubleshooting and you should be able to find the issue(s).

Jim

[BadBird68]

I wasn't trying to be an azz when I asked this but you never know sometimes .

You might have to pull up a diagram to see what fuse and/or wire in the aftermarket wiring is for the parking lights. Sometimes original headlight switches have circuit breakers in them protecting the output wiring going to the floor dimmer switch and then out to the headlights with it's own feed into the switch for the headlights while the parking light portion of the headlight switch has a fused wire from the fuse block and then past the switch has the connections to the parking lights. Basically two independent sources of power going into the headlight switch BUT now with aftermarket wiring, who knows how things were actually done.

Yep, go through some kind of logical progression in your troubleshooting and you should be able to find the issue(s).

Jim

Yes sir I didn’t take it as rude at all. Thanks for the info, I haven’t had a chance to get back out there and work on it yet with my kids sporting events going on. But I’m confident when I do I will be able to trace it down.

[BadBird68]

Hey guys I’m still chasing this issue. I took the headlight switch out and I’m supposed to have two hot wires at all times on it. The fused link red wire (it does have power) and the orange wire that I think runs straight to the fuse block. I don’t have power on that orange wire. But I checked/ replaced all of my fuses and they are good. Does anyone know which specific fuse that orange wire is supposed to run to? Also I traced my wired all the way until it enters the top of the fuse box and I don’t have any brakes in the wire. I’m stumped on this freakin thing. I ran a wire from a know hot spot on the fuse to the orange wire where the switch is and the tail lights work perfectly as they should.

[blitzer454]

I assume it would be the fuse marked "TAIL".

This fuse gets it power from the same source as the red wire that goes to the light switch. The wiring diagram shows that there is a 4 red wire junction and one wire from that junction goes to the light switch, one to the tail fuse, one to the ignition switch and one to the the bulk head connector. If you're not getting power at one of the tail fuse contacts then my guess is that there is a broken wire at this junction. I do not know where that junction is located, most likely it is wrapped inside the wiring harness.

[Jim Streib]

Got some questions as I do not have any pictures of your model fuse block so if you can, post some decent sized ones of it.

Until then, does this maybe look like your fuse block:



I found this on a First Generation Firebird site but you never know with internet searches if this is what you have.

If it is, it may be put together like my fuse block on my 74 which below is a shot of the backside of the fuse block:



On it since you are looking on the backside, on the far right you can see a large red wire being attached to a group of 3 fuse clips. Now a little to the left on the bottom you see an orange wire that then goes up and joins another on the backside of where the emergency flasher plugs in and then this orange wire goes to the brake light switch circuit. The next wire up is also an orange but a tad thinner in the picture and this is off of the fuse marked TAIL and I have to think this is the one that goes to the headlight switch to then go out to the parking light wires and illumination circuits. There is then a third orange above that then is labeled CLK LTR and I have to think this orange wire then goes to the lighter (and maybe the courtesy lights/dome lights ?).

When you are testing things with the test light or meter, is the parking light switch on ?. The reason I'm asking is if it is off, you might be measuring things at the fuse block and all shows well but without a load (lights being on and drawing power) if there is a poor connection then once things do get powered on a connection goes south and power get's lost.

Another thing too, is check for power on the fuse as well as the fuse clip itself. You could be getting power into the fuse and then out of the fuse but then it's not getting transferred to the other clip and then out to the headlight switch.

Jim

[BadBird68]

Blitzer and Jim thanks so much with your help I got the problem figured out and fixed! When they installed the Painless kit they failed to connect the orange wire to the res wire go get its power!