Enter your username:
Do you want to login or register?
  • Forgot your password?

    Login / Register



    Results 1 to 20 of 20
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      628

      56 Chevy vs. Mazda and impact of choices on interior safety

      Some blood in the interior pictures so don’t look if you don’t need/want to see that.

      “While not all reports have come through, the spokesperson shared the man was taken to hospital to be treated for what officers at the scene described are “relatively serious injuries”.

      A head rest and shoulder belt would likely gone a long way. Driver likely has head and neck injuries as a result. Quite possible the front glass was broken by the drivers head even though he had a lap belt securing his pelvis.

      https://www.620ckrm.com/2020/09/22/m...theast-regina/

      Close up photos of the Chevy here on auction site.
      https://bid.barga.ca/Bidding.taf?_fu...n_uid1=5945777
      Last edited by JohnUlaszek; 03-04-2021 at 06:51 AM.

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Tinley Park, IL
      Posts
      1,086
      Country Flag: United States
      I'll never understand removing the head rests on a car that is actually driven. Any given interior doesn't actually look better with them removed, in my opinion.

      Nick ~
      1969 Cutlass

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Location
      Kankakee IL
      Posts
      262
      New car vs old the old car will lose every time.
      Tracey

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      628
      Quote Originally Posted by Tsaints1115 View Post
      New car vs old the old car will lose every time.
      No doubt a modern car is safer, but there are choices that influence safety during a car build.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,520
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nick View Post
      I'll never understand removing the head rests on a car that is actually driven. Any given interior doesn't actually look better with them removed, in my opinion.
      FWIW, that car never had head rests......or seat belts for that matter.

      I was mostly curious about the column as the car still has a frame mounted steering box. It was interesting that it doesn't seem that the column moved rearward much but it definitely pushed up into the dash when the drive hit the steering wheel.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Location
      Kankakee IL
      Posts
      262
      Quote Originally Posted by JohnUlaszek View Post
      No doubt a modern car is safer, but there are choices that influence safety during a car build.
      Make all the choices in the world but it won't stop an old car from folding like an accordion.
      Tracey

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Harriman, Tennessee
      Posts
      1,229
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Tsaints1115 View Post
      Make all the choices in the world but it won't stop an old car from folding like an accordion.
      Are you being purposefully obtuse?

      The biggest issue in this accident was the driver moving forward into the steering column, dashboard, and windshield. Had the builder installed 3-point seatbelts, the driver likely would have walked away with minor injuries.
      Bill Kistner
      Check out my blog and the latest installment of my current project "In the Company of Devils" at: www.WilliamKElliott.com.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Location
      Kankakee IL
      Posts
      262
      Quote Originally Posted by ProTouring442 View Post
      Are you being purposefully obtuse?

      The biggest issue in this accident was the driver moving forward into the steering column, dashboard, and windshield. Had the builder installed 3-point seatbelts, the driver likely would have walked away with minor injuries.
      Obtuse? No, realistic. It's been proven that older cars do not have the structural integrity of a new one.

      3 point belts may have kept him off the windshield but it would not have kept the engine compartment from folding into the cab. Be honest with yourself.

      https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U

      Tracey


    9. #9
      Join Date
      May 2010
      Location
      kitchener,Ontario,Canada
      Posts
      2,151
      Country Flag: Canada
      are we bickering over this ? .... obviously new cars are going to be stronger , better metals, use of plastics, air bags, basic design ... I can go on and on but why we all know this already. End of the day I believe the point is to bring the "results" to everyone's eyes . Hey guys were all in this together , make the car you build as safe as possible.
      Spinnin'my tires in life's fast lane

      Ryan Austin
      On twitter @raustinss
      On Instagram austinss70

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Harriman, Tennessee
      Posts
      1,229
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Tsaints1115 View Post
      Obtuse? No, realistic. It's been proven that older cars do not have the structural integrity of a new one.

      3 point belts may have kept him off the windshield but it would not have kept the engine compartment from folding into the cab. Be honest with yourself.

      https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U
      But in this accident, the engine compartment didn't come into the cab. You see, this discussion is about what would have made this particular accident less injurious. I agree that a newer car will nearly always be safer than an older car, but such is not germane to the discussion here.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by raustinss View Post
      are we bickering over this ? .... obviously new cars are going to be stronger , better metals, use of plastics, air bags, basic design ... I can go on and on but why we all know this already. End of the day I believe the point is to bring the "results" to everyone's eyes . Hey guys were all in this together , make the car you build as safe as possible.
      Not bickering at all.
      Bill Kistner
      Check out my blog and the latest installment of my current project "In the Company of Devils" at: www.WilliamKElliott.com.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Location
      Kankakee IL
      Posts
      262
      Quote Originally Posted by ProTouring442 View Post
      But in this accident, the engine compartment didn't come into the cab. You see, this discussion is about what would have made this particular accident less injurious. I agree that a newer car will nearly always be safer than an older car, but such is not germane to the discussion here.
      What would have made "this particular accident less injurious" may have been the inclusion of a 3 point belt, a collapsible steering column, a OEM wheel that bends upon impact instead of a fancy aluminum one. There's many little things that could have been done. But the FACT of the matter still is those things would be putting a bow on a pig as far as actual safety.

      My original point, that I stand behind, is no matter what (short of a full NASCAR cage) old cars are going to be on the losing side of a battle with even the most basic s**tbox of the modern era. That's all. I'm not making light of the man's injuries. We should be thankful he's not dead because it wouldn't have taken much to get there. But if ANY of us, myself included, have some idea that even if we put better belts ,etc, in our old cars that we are gonna be SAFE then we are all seriously delusional. We can do our best but our safest bet is to not get into a crash in the first place.
      Tracey

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Harriman, Tennessee
      Posts
      1,229
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Tsaints1115 View Post
      What would have made "this particular accident less injurious" may have been the inclusion of a 3 point belt, a collapsible steering column, a OEM wheel that bends upon impact instead of a fancy aluminum one. There's many little things that could have been done. But the FACT of the matter still is those things would be putting a bow on a pig as far as actual safety.

      My original point, that I stand behind, is no matter what (short of a full NASCAR cage) old cars are going to be on the losing side of a battle with even the most basic s**tbox of the modern era. That's all. I'm not making light of the man's injuries. We should be thankful he's not dead because it wouldn't have taken much to get there. But if ANY of us, myself included, have some idea that even if we put better belts ,etc, in our old cars that we are gonna be SAFE then we are all seriously delusional. We can do our best but our safest bet is to not get into a crash in the first place.
      Agreed.

      I will say, however, that had the man had a 3-point seatbelt on, he would not have mangled the steering wheel. Unusually for a tri-5, it doesn't appear the steering column came up toward the driver. I wonder if he didn't have a collapsable steering shaft as part of the tilt installation.
      Bill Kistner
      Check out my blog and the latest installment of my current project "In the Company of Devils" at: www.WilliamKElliott.com.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      413
      The point is that this car didn't even have have the low-hanging fruit, as far as safety goes. Retractable shoulder belts & headrests are pretty basic. It's not an OEM stock resto; the owner spent plenty of money updating lots of other stuff on the car.


      It looks like the driver's head hit the windshield and that makes me wonder if he even had the lap belt on. Or maybe it wasn't very tight.

      The lap belt looks like a basic non-retractable one. Those tend to be worn on the loose side for comfort. And the guy must not have been very concerned about safety in general because of how it was built.


      As for the 1959 vs 2009 crash test, that deck was stacked. They did an offset-frontal crash on an X-frame '59. They knew what they were doing. An older car was never gonna win (or even tie) against a 2009 model, but they set up that test to produce an epic-fail result.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Sep 2019
      Posts
      10
      Personally I would never run just a lap belt. My favourite choice is a full harness, properly mounted, but a three point retractable is the minimum I would run with. Either way it's still gonna hurt when you crash in an old car

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      Sulphur, La
      Posts
      451
      Quote Originally Posted by 7T400Formula View Post
      Personally I would never run just a lap belt. My favourite choice is a full harness, properly mounted, but a three point retractable is the minimum I would run with. Either way it's still gonna hurt when you crash in an old car
      I have seen nasty results from a harness without a proper cage.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Location
      Kankakee IL
      Posts
      262
      Quote Originally Posted by mikedc View Post

      As for the 1959 vs 2009 crash test, that deck was stacked. They did an offset-frontal crash on an X-frame '59. They knew what they were doing. An older car was never gonna win (or even tie) against a 2009 model, but they set up that test to produce an epic-fail result.
      They chose the offset test because that's the toughest benchmark in crash test safety. And on the street you won't have the luxury of choosing the crash you'd like to have.
      Tracey

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Sep 2019
      Posts
      10
      Quote Originally Posted by CSG View Post
      I have seen nasty results from a harness without a proper cage.
      Sorry, yes I meant with a cage. No cage planned in my current car so I'm going with 3 points

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      413
      They chose the offset test because that's the toughest benchmark in crash test safety. And on the street you won't have the luxury of choosing the crash you'd like to have.
      Wouldn't it have been more legit to do two crashes, each one into another car from its own era? Or they could have at least used a sled car or a fixed barrier. Hitting body/frames that were 50 years apart is not a very realistic/fair test, is it? Those cars were made to work in their own respective eras.

      Doing a head-on crash paints a dramatic picture of mortal combat between them. And a single big collision shot makes a better news clip than two separate crashes.

      They could have used a '59 model with a conventional ladder frame. It would have been more representative of most cars in that era. But the '59 they picked had an X-frame (and very swept back A-pillars). So they chose a design that was less common even in its own time, and they also just happened to choose the worst way to hit it?

      They knew what they were doing. The test was designed to produce a viral publicity clip.

      Again, I'm not doubting that the 2009 is safer, period. It is.

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Harriman, Tennessee
      Posts
      1,229
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by mikedc View Post
      Wouldn't it have been more legit to do two crashes, each one into another car from its own era? Or they could have at least used a sled car or a fixed barrier. Hitting body/frames that were 50 years apart is not a very realistic/fair test, is it? Those cars were made to work in their own respective eras.

      Doing a head-on crash paints a dramatic picture of mortal combat between them. And a single big collision shot makes a better news clip than two separate crashes.

      They could have used a '59 model with a conventional ladder frame. It would have been more representative of most cars in that era. But the '59 they picked had an X-frame (and very swept back A-pillars). So they chose a design that was less common even in its own time, and they also just happened to choose the worst way to hit it?

      They knew what they were doing. The test was designed to produce a viral publicity clip.

      Again, I'm not doubting that the 2009 is safer, period. It is.
      Given the added strength in the rocker panels, etc, the '59 Chevy was no less capable of surviving the crash than a '59 Ford or '59 Dodge. Even a '59 Thunderbird (unibody) would fold up like an aluminum can in an offset impact.
      Bill Kistner
      Check out my blog and the latest installment of my current project "In the Company of Devils" at: www.WilliamKElliott.com.

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Posts
      35

      True

      I agree with you. Head rests were designed for a reason. Why remove it?