Getting the engine/trans in

[roguegeek]

Hey all. I could use some help figuring out how and where to cut the trans tunnel for my project. You can read where I am in the build here, but the TLDR is... I'm doing a second-gen Camaro. I have the a completed body with paint done. It's mated to a fully assembled and complete Speedtech ExtReme subframe and torque arm. The rear is complete. Mini tubs are installed. The transmission tunnel is installed. It's sitting on wheels that won't be used on the completed car. I have the following parts in hand, but not installed: LS427 engine, T56 transmission, clutch, bell housing, brakes, AC, steering column, and some other smaller things.

It appears the next bit of business is to mate the engine and trans and get them into the car. I don't have a lift, so they'll be going in through the engine bay. I've been told it's going to take several runs of placing it in and pulling it out to make sure everything is set. No problem there. What are all of the dependencies I need to address before the pair can sit inside the body "permanently"? I'm talking about this like, I know I'll need to make a cut in the tunnel for the shifter. Would love to know how I go about determining where the cut is made and what kind of template I should use for it. What other things must happen before the engine/trans can "finally" be placed?

Any and all feedback is welcomed. Thanks.

[Hotwire]

I'll get this started, sorry if I go too elementary..

Getting a couple of dependable, careful, gearheaded friends to help you run the assembly in to the car is key. Cheap harbor freight moving blankets are an added plus to the job.

Also need to have one of these on hand: https://www.amazon.com/AFF-582-Engin.../dp/B000GKJHKI

Mount the chains so that the brackets won't hit the firewall once the engine is in.

Pull the shifter from the trans and tape up the opening in the trans. Pull the hood and store it somewhere safe (I usually use moving blankets and leave it on the roof of the car) Drop assembly in, you'll need a hard angle at first to get the tailshaft down and in, then use a floor jack in the trans mount area to cradle the trans back and in. Get the motor mount bolts installed then see where your shifter housing will be in the tunnel. Mark it, pull engine trans, make your cut. Reinstall, rinse, repeat. Check your pinion angle while everything is bolted down. I like to leave my shifter opening large enough that I can pull the shifter while the trans is installed, but that's not for everybody. If you aren't running a center console you need a larger shift boot to cover it up.

[roguegeek]

I'll get this started, sorry if I go too elementary..

I prefer it explained like this. As I stated on my project page, I went into this project with very little experience and am relying on my resourcefulness, ability to quickly learn, and with no fear of failing. I just need to be pointed in the right direction most of the time, so I appreciate your feedback.

Getting a couple of dependable, careful, gearheaded friends to help you run the assembly in to the car is key. Cheap harbor freight moving blankets are an added plus to the job. Also need to have one of these on hand: https://www.amazon.com/AFF-582-Engin.../dp/B000GKJHKI

Mount the chains so that the brackets won't hit the firewall once the engine is in.

Sweet. Have one. I did disassemble this car from when it was entirely complete and that included pulling the previous engine/trans in and out.

Pull the shifter from the trans and tape up the opening in the trans. Pull the hood and store it somewhere safe (I usually use moving blankets and leave it on the roof of the car) Drop assembly in, you'll need a hard angle at first to get the tailshaft down and in, then use a floor jack in the trans mount area to cradle the trans back and in. Get the motor mount bolts installed then see where your shifter housing will be in the tunnel. Mark it, pull engine trans, make your cut. Reinstall, rinse, repeat. Check your pinion angle while everything is bolted down. I like to leave my shifter opening large enough that I can pull the shifter while the trans is installed, but that's not for everybody. If you aren't running a center console you need a larger shift boot to cover it up.

Ok, so besides getting the assembly together and getting it actually into the body, it sounds like I really just need to worry about the tunnel cut for this next step. So a couple of questions here.

• Should I installed the clutch, bell housing, and trans on the engine with it on an engine stand (don't have one yet)? On an engine hoist (do have one)? Is the crate that the engine comes sitting on good enough to support that installation?
• Would it be easier if I just removed the front end with radiator support entirely? Or is that not worth it? I don't mind putting in this time if it makes it easier, but I'm not sure of the value of this.
• I'm guessing when I'm putting the assembly in, I'm doing so without the trans support crossmember? After I get the motor bolted in, do I put the support back on to determine where the cut should be made?
• Can you give me a little more details on the logistics of "seeing" where to make the cut? I'm guessing it will probably make sense after I have the trans in, but I'm just having a hard time understanding if there's enough room to see where it should be made.
• In terms of the actual cut, I'd rather leave it large enough for maintenance in the future. Is there some sort of template I should be following or do people just make it?
• After the cut is made, the assembly is in, and the shifter is reattached, what's used here to "seal" the cabin from the outside?

Thanks so much for your time on this.

[joeko23]

I’m very much a novice as well, but I just went through this and it was my first time so here’s how I would answer your questions:

1. I would install everything on your crate, bell housing, clutch, trans etc. get everything secured, torqued, loctite etc so you don’t have to worry about it later. Also you won’t be scrambling to find pieces because you installed 3 out of 5 bolts just to secure it temporarily. Do it once and that’s it.

2. I would remove hood, and radiator support minimally. The fenders can stay on ( I know they will be loose because they are secured at the rad support. I think it’s ok. Or if your worried that much then remove them.

3. You are correct the crossmember will be removed when installing engine and trans. You will support the trans with a jack for now.

4. I would not remove the shifter from the trans. I would keep it on. When you install the whole engine and trans as a single unit, get the motor mount bolts in. Once you get the motor mount bolts in, you know your engine or trans isn’t going more back or forward, your locked in. I then jacked up the trans until the shifter hit the tunnel. I marked where it hit the tunnel (first thing that should hit is the actual shifter). Now take out the engine/trans and you will have the center of where to drill a hole for the shifter. From center you might want to drill the hole 1/4”-1/2” forward from that point because the higher your trans goes, the more forward the shifter goes. Drill a hole just large enough for the shifter to poke through the hole. When I say shifter I’m talking about just the actual shifter (not shifter and boot) your drilling just 3/4” hole or so (kinda hard to explain, hopefully you know what I mean). Once you have the first hole for the shifter (3/4” hole) reinstall the engine and trans, jack up the trans, now the shifter should poke through, you will need to cut a bigger hole so the boot can fit through the tunnel, but now you have a starting point and to make the future cuts you don’t need to take out the engine and trans. Just lower the jack, this will drop the trans down giving you enough room to make your whole larger from inside the car. Go slow using either tin snips or a dremel tool to slowly englarge the hole. Your making the hole large enough to where you can position the engine high enough to allow your crossmember to slide in. Your speedtech frame or crossmember might have a suggested pinion angle and or a block that mounts between the trans crossmember and tranny to push your trans up and have proper pinion angle. I would call speed tech and see what they recommend.

5. In my build I’m not using any stock components, but if your going with stock console/look there is a rubber boot that slides over the shifter, screws to the trans tunnel and gets sealed with seam sealer.

Good luck! Once you get everything into position it will become pretty self explanatory. The only suggestion is making the hole for the shifter 1/4”-1/2” forward of your mark because as the trans goes up, shifter position changes slightly. Make a small hole to start, poke shifter through, adjust trans, make hole bigger then repeat until everything is in the right place.

[Z06vet]

I help a friend build a 70 w full speedtech setup. To get the driveline angle correct, we ended up having to cut the entire tunnel from the firewall to the rear seat area. It was a ton. I wasn't expecting that having built 15+ first gens. I'll see if he can shoot me some pics and post them.

[79 Camaro]

Besides what is said above I would pull the fenders also. So much easier working around the engine and subframe with the fenders out of the way. Hate to damage what looks like nice paint.

[roguegeek]

I’m very much a novice as well, but I just went through this and it was my first time so here’s how I would answer your questions:

1. I would install everything on your crate, bell housing, clutch, trans etc. get everything secured, torqued, loctite etc so you don’t have to worry about it later. Also you won’t be scrambling to find pieces because you installed 3 out of 5 bolts just to secure it temporarily. Do it once and that’s it.

2. I would remove hood, and radiator support minimally. The fenders can stay on ( I know they will be loose because they are secured at the rad support. I think it’s ok. Or if your worried that much then remove them.

3. You are correct the crossmember will be removed when installing engine and trans. You will support the trans with a jack for now.

4. I would not remove the shifter from the trans. I would keep it on. When you install the whole engine and trans as a single unit, get the motor mount bolts in. Once you get the motor mount bolts in, you know your engine or trans isn’t going more back or forward, your locked in. I then jacked up the trans until the shifter hit the tunnel. I marked where it hit the tunnel (first thing that should hit is the actual shifter). Now take out the engine/trans and you will have the center of where to drill a hole for the shifter. From center you might want to drill the hole 1/4”-1/2” forward from that point because the higher your trans goes, the more forward the shifter goes. Drill a hole just large enough for the shifter to poke through the hole. When I say shifter I’m talking about just the actual shifter (not shifter and boot) your drilling just 3/4” hole or so (kinda hard to explain, hopefully you know what I mean). Once you have the first hole for the shifter (3/4” hole) reinstall the engine and trans, jack up the trans, now the shifter should poke through, you will need to cut a bigger hole so the boot can fit through the tunnel, but now you have a starting point and to make the future cuts you don’t need to take out the engine and trans. Just lower the jack, this will drop the trans down giving you enough room to make your whole larger from inside the car. Go slow using either tin snips or a dremel tool to slowly englarge the hole. Your making the hole large enough to where you can position the engine high enough to allow your crossmember to slide in. Your speedtech frame or crossmember might have a suggested pinion angle and or a block that mounts between the trans crossmember and tranny to push your trans up and have proper pinion angle. I would call speed tech and see what they recommend.

5. In my build I’m not using any stock components, but if your going with stock console/look there is a rubber boot that slides over the shifter, screws to the trans tunnel and gets sealed with seam sealer.

Good luck! Once you get everything into position it will become pretty self explanatory. The only suggestion is making the hole for the shifter 1/4”-1/2” forward of your mark because as the trans goes up, shifter position changes slightly. Make a small hole to start, poke shifter through, adjust trans, make hole bigger then repeat until everything is in the right place.

Thank you so much. So much good information here that I'll be applying! I'm sure I'll have some questions as I parse and apply it all.

[roguegeek]

I help a friend build a 70 w full speedtech setup. To get the driveline angle correct, we ended up having to cut the entire tunnel from the firewall to the rear seat area. It was a ton. I wasn't expecting that having built 15+ first gens. I'll see if he can shoot me some pics and post them.

Yup, it is quite a lot. Speedtech builds their own tunnel for their setup. It's already installed on my body. I should only have to cut the hole for the shifter at this point. Fingers crossed.

- - - Updated - - -

Besides what is said above I would pull the fenders also. So much easier working around the engine and subframe with the fenders out of the way. Hate to damage what looks like nice paint.

I was thinking the same thing. Easy enough to do, so I might as well. Thanks!

[Kenova]

My experience comes from installing a T56 Magnum in a '71 Nova.

- I jacked the car up nice and high and used cribbing for the front tires. This gave me lots of room with no jack stands getting in the way.
- I left the engine on it's mounts and used some scrap wood to support the oil pan. I wanted the engine to tip down at the rear but not enough to bust up the distributor (gen I sbc).
- I removed the clutch and disk so I wouldn't have to align the trans input shaft with every test fit. I had to change the bell housing so it wasn't a big deal.
- To make the test fits easier I cut the heads off of some extra long bolts to use as guide pins.
- Most importantly I bought a proper transmission jack. They are a lot cheaper than a trip to the emergency room or weekly visits to the chiropractor. I used a cargo strap to hold the trans on the jack and it stayed there untill I was done.
- I would bolt the trans to the bell housing and jack it up untill it hit the tunnel, mark where it hit, remove the trans, then cut out the offending portion of the tunnel. I removed the shifter and made a cover for the hole. This allowed me to jack the trans up higher before hitting the floor. Repeat as needed untill you have achieved the desired angle of the engine and trans. I was shooting for 2 degrees and settled at 2 1/2 degrees. Once that is established build/modify the trans cross member.
- Plug up that big gaping hole.

I eventually cut the tunnel from an inch from the firewall to a point between the bucket seats (which were removed) because the trans yoke was hitting the floor. I suspect your trans tunnel is bigger so you may get away with less cutting.
It can be tedious work but it's worth every bit of effort when you get it on the road.



Ken