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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      1,293
      Country Flag: United States

      Roll cage/bar, Any regrets?

      I'm tossing around the idea of installing a roll bar in my 67. I'm leaning more towards the "no" side of it, but wanted to hear others opinions.

      Do you have one and are happy with it?
      If you do have one, anything you would change or improve?
      Did you not install one, but wish you did? Why?

      I have time to decide, my car will be 99% street driven which is why I'm leaning towards no.

      Let me know your thoughts!



    2. #2
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      DFW, Texas
      Posts
      422
      Country Flag: United States
      Cages are safer if you strap in tight and wear a helmet all of the time, they can be more dangerous in some situations otherwise. I don't believe padding will help without a helmet, it'll keep you from smacking your head while getting in/out, but it will be insignificant in an accident.

      That said, you may want to understand if there are any insurance hiccups with a cage, I know Hagerty seems to get antsy with caged cars.

      My car is 99% street with some autocross intent. I went into building the car wanting a cage for some chassis rigidity and harnessing improvements. After looking through the cons, I decided against it. No regrets for me.
      1972 Plymouth 'Cuda - Not LS-swapped, 5.7L Hemi [MS3 Gold Box], T56 Magnum 6-speed - 'Cuda Build Page
      1976 Dodge D100 - Warlock
      2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune

    3. #3
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Colton Ca.
      Posts
      623
      Country Flag: United States
      I regret buying a pre fabricated cage for my 68 camaro. It was from a big name company and didn't fit tight as advertised.

      I built my own and it hugs tight everywhere.

      if you get a cage get a professional to build one for you and tell them what your trying to do and looking for.
      Ahmad B.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Location
      Sun City West, AZ
      Posts
      672
      Country Flag: United States
      I had Mike Maier, Inc. build my cage in my C4 Autocross Car. The cage is a 6 Point since, I don't do wheel-to-wheel road arcing. Just occasional time trials/open track stuff like optima Hot Laps but, mainly autocrossing. I'm glad I did. My 6 Point was designed where you can get in & out without much difficulty.

      A friend of mine who also has a C4 drove my car once and he noticed a significant difference in chassis rigidness as compared to his. Yes, it adds weight but, I'm glad I did add it.

      Any cage that you decide to go with (custom of pre-fab) make sure that it will be a legal install in accordance with the various competition bodies rules. You can't go wrong if it is built/installed per the SCCA Road Race Competition rules. The SCCA Solo rules are in accordance with those rules. Also, just in case that in the future that your cage must be an approved installation in order to pass a Tech Inspection, you should have the cage inspected by a certified Tech Inspector (like SCCA uses) and get a Log Book documenting the inspection of that cage. It'll save you headaches in the long run.
      --
      Kenny Mitchell
      [email protected]

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      1,293
      Country Flag: United States
      Good point on checking with the insurance company first.

      If I did do a bar or cage, I'd definitely have it done professionally custom fit to me and the car. I would look in to the rulebooks of various associations to make sure it would fall in to spec.

      I'm just trying to be realistic. This car will be driven on the street 99% of the time and in my mind I just don't want to deal with bars and climbing in and out. I also have small kids and want to keep the back seat functional.

      Is one necessary for autocross events?

    6. #6
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Colton Ca.
      Posts
      623
      Country Flag: United States
      In all honesty these cars aren't safe to drive on the street with or without a roll cage. I have kids and wouldn't think to put one of them in an old muscle car. The safety crash protection doesn't exist with an old muscle car.

      The picture below is of a 67 camaro that was said to be hit by an older Toyota at about 35 miles an hour. The toyota had damage but look at the camaro......



      https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      DFW, Texas
      Posts
      422
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post
      I also have small kids and want to keep the back seat functional.
      I hear that, and it's certainly a concern. My kids will be in their car seats as long as they can, I know the car isn't the safest but I feel okay with the limited exposure and attentive/defensive driving.

      Name:  64558475_2518076811569695_3323029236435910656_o.jpg
Views: 1457
Size:  154.8 KB
      1972 Plymouth 'Cuda - Not LS-swapped, 5.7L Hemi [MS3 Gold Box], T56 Magnum 6-speed - 'Cuda Build Page
      1976 Dodge D100 - Warlock
      2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Sep 2001
      Location
      Accord, NY
      Posts
      2,295
      Country Flag: United States
      I had a 6-point in my 69 camaro vert. Haggerty was OK with that. It definitely helped rigidity.

      But, even with 4-point belts my head would have hit in an accident. I wouldn't do it again. Agree that the cars are basically unsafe.
      69 Camaro convertible, 410, M22, 8-pt cage therapy program. SOLD.
      68 camaro - SOLD
      67 Bel Air - New street project with perfect floors, frame and trunk!

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Apr 2010
      Location
      Jersey Shore
      Posts
      695
      Country Flag: United States
      I do agree that in general these cars are terribly unsafe, but what is the difference in smacking your skull against a round bar vs the sheetmetal structure of the roof? Unless the bar is right next to your head where you might hit it in a less severe accident, I think I would rather have the added structure in case the car does end up on its roof (or T-boned like in the pic of the camaro). I witnessed a (newer) car roll over at an autocross years ago. If it was a car like most of ours, a flimsy roof structure may not have held up. Damned if ya do, damned if ya dont I guess...
      -Chris
      '69 Corvette
      '55 Chevy Hardtop
      AutoWorks Middletown, NJ
      @autoworksnj for corvette and shop car pics
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...e-Build-Thread

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jan 2014
      Location
      Portsmouth NH
      Posts
      247
      Country Flag: United States
      I fully agree that the safety level of the old cars we modify for our fun is questionable. Some of the builds on here do bring their cars cages up to racing spec which does increase the safety of these cars. I am always impressed with the attention to detail done by so many builds here and the inclusion of good safety practices. Whether it is electrical, structural or fire related if you can improve the safety then you should.

      That said there will always be an element of risk. Everyone has their own limits and levels they can work with. For me personally, I used to road race motorcycles and currently instruct track days. It is a very different set of limitations compared to the cars on here. I use the best safety equipment I can but even then compared to a caged car, well there is no comparison.

      We all have to make the choices that we can live with in our own lives. Risk is always present.
      1969 Camaro (Small Tyre Restomod/mild Protour) 245/40/18 F, 275/35/18 R, stock frame, full Ridetech suspension, LS engine, T56 Mag, Wilwood Brakes. A driver car.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Dec 2015
      Posts
      47
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by vette427-sbc View Post
      I do agree that in general these cars are terribly unsafe, but what is the difference in smacking your skull against a round bar vs the sheetmetal structure of the roof? Unless the bar is right next to your head where you might hit it in a less severe accident, I think I would rather have the added structure in case the car does end up on its roof (or T-boned like in the pic of the camaro). I witnessed a (newer) car roll over at an autocross years ago. If it was a car like most of ours, a flimsy roof structure may not have held up. Damned if ya do, damned if ya dont I guess...
      I agree. In a newer car the upside of the rollbar is debatable, but on these older cars the good far outweighs the bad. In a T-bone or a rollover situation the rollbar is going to save your life.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      1,293
      Country Flag: United States
      Wow, I can't believe what that 68 looks like. Yeah I know that newer cars are far safer with all their engineered safety, but that Camaro looks like a Mack truck hit it. I hope the driver survived. Looking at that pic, I don't see how a 4 point or 6 point would have made it any better? You'd probably need a full Nascar style cage to protect yourself!
      With the kids in the car, yes, drive like a little old lady going to church, but still can't control those around you.

      I'm going to have to think long and hard about this...

    13. #13
      Join Date
      May 2010
      Location
      kitchener,Ontario,Canada
      Posts
      2,336
      Country Flag: Canada
      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post
      Wow, I can't believe what that 68 looks like. Yeah I know that newer cars are far safer with all their engineered safety, but that Camaro looks like a Mack truck hit it. I hope the driver survived. Looking at that pic, I don't see how a 4 point or 6 point would have made it any better? You'd probably need a full Nascar style cage to protect yourself!
      With the kids in the car, yes, drive like a little old lady going to church, but still can't control those around you.

      I'm going to have to think long and hard about this...
      Roll cage probably wouldn't have done much ... but on the flip side I doubt it would t have done any harm either
      Spinnin'my tires in life's fast lane

      Ryan Austin
      On twitter @raustinss
      On Instagram austinss70

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I put my 4 point roll bar in because I wanted to run a HANS device on road courses, which meant harnesses, which meant a good harness bar and race seats. I went back and forth and finally decided to do it once I found a great deal on nice seats. I took my back seat out in order to install a proper custom fabbed bar.

      I would NOT put anybody in the rear seat of one of these cars with a roll bar installed. I also would not put any sort of a full cage in a street car that will be driven without a helmet.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,155
      Country Flag: United States
      I run a 6 point roll bar that I originally installed in the car back in the 70's. It was a 4 point mount for many many years until I installed weld in DSE subframe connectors at which point I added two extra triangulating bars to tie the roll bar into the subframe connectors. My head has never come close to contacting the roll bar even when wearing a helmet once strapped into the seat. The bar adds considerable stiffness to the chassis but it also eliminates access to the back seat. Grundy has never mentioned the roll bar and they have this same picture of the car in their files.

      Name:  Camaro 114.jpg
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      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Kids in the back = no cage/ bar if any sort.
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Out of the Burbs of Detroit to SoCal, then onto my ancestral homeland, the woods of Cascadia
      Posts
      1,753
      Country Flag: United States
      Camaro looks distorted (beyond the accident damage) to me, like a weird lens like a fisheye was used. The back of the car looks like it's too far away from the front
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

      1970 Camaro RS Clone
      1984 el Camino
      1973 MGB vintage E/Prod race car
      (Soon to be an SCCA H/Prod limited prep)

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      1,293
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm going to go with no cage, can always add one if my plans change...

      I had a 6 point in my Chevelle and I really only did it for the "cool factor." That was almost 15 years ago, and I remembered hating climbing over the door bar to get in!

    19. #19
      Join Date
      May 2010
      Location
      kitchener,Ontario,Canada
      Posts
      2,336
      Country Flag: Canada
      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post
      I'm going to go with no cage, can always add one if my plans change...

      I had a 6 point in my Chevelle and I really only did it for the "cool factor." That was almost 15 years ago, and I remembered hating climbing over the door bar to get in!
      Did your door bars have a "dog leg" so it would be easier to get in or just straight bars at an angle
      Spinnin'my tires in life's fast lane

      Ryan Austin
      On twitter @raustinss
      On Instagram austinss70

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      1,293
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by raustinss View Post
      Did your door bars have a "dog leg" so it would be easier to get in or just straight bars at an angle

      No, they were straight.

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