Ok engine masters. I need a little advise.

[JoshStratton]

What do you all think of this package. It will run about 4500 shipped with my upgrades - They will upgrade this package to a forged crank, H-Beam rods and forged pistons for 600 bucks (I requested this for a turbo later on and the pistons will eventually need to be switched out).



I am thinking of going with these guys for my engine build. It is a used case, but they hand select each one. They dyno each engine, not just one and claim all the same.

The cam looks like this:
approx 224-232 at 050 and with a 1.6 rocker is right at 500 520 lift.

They build engines for NASCAR teams. I asked in another thread if anyone had heard of them and got one response:

T and L Engines

This is from their advertisement for a 383:

Included with your motor will be the dyno results of your engine.
The dyno chart in this listing is from our last 383 Stroker II, which dynoed at over 400HP and 460Ft-lbs of torque!

This engine is a new, powerful blue-printed engine, with all of its specifications
documented and filed at T&L Engine Development under its serial number.
It has been designed for pump gas use with 10.33:1 compression. It has been
professionally assembled by the same crew that builds the NASCAR race
engines seen on national television.

Yes, we are new to e-bay, but we are not new to the business. We have over
25 years of NASCAR race experience. Now, we are bringing this experience
and technology to the street. Add your name to our list of satisfied customers:
- Jarrett
- Labonte
- Nemechek
- Spencer
- Craven
- LePage
- Schrader
- Skinner
- Cope
- Fisher
and more...

In addition to a seasoned GM 4-bolt main block, we include the following:
New Rotating Assembly:
- 3.750" scat cast steel crankshaft
- 4340 6" scat I-beam forged steel rods
- Clevite 77 rod and main bearings
- Plasma moly Hastings piston rings
- Keith Black hyperuetectic pistons

New Parts:
- Dura-bond cam bearings
- Roller dual timing set
- Melling high pressure oil pump
- Steel sleeve oil pump drive rod
- Aluminum Dart Pro1 angle plug cyl. heads (2.08/1.60 valves, 215cc runners)
- Chrome dress kit
- Chrome oil pan
- Street series harmonic damper
- Cam bolt lock kit
- Gasket set
- ARP oil pump stud
- Oil filter adapter
- Silicone beaded intake gaskets
- Aluminum roller rockers (w/ 7/16 studs and 1.6 ratio)
- .080" wall chrome moly pushrods
- ARP cyl. head bolt kit
- Aluminum air gap design intake manifold
- T&L custom grind camshaft & hydraulic lifter set
- Melling oil pump pickup tube
- Spark plugs
- Oil and filter
- Brass expansion plug kit
- Valve cover hold down kit

Labor:
- All parts hand cleaned
- Block sonic checked for thickness
- Block pressure tested @40 psi
- Block stroker clearanced
- Block square decked w/BHJ fixturing
- Aligned hone mains
- Bored and honed w/torque plates
- All clearances checked to the nearest .0001"
- Rotating assembly internally balanced
- Engine blueprinted w/spec sheet on file
- Engine fully assembled and dressed to customer specifications
- Dyno tested

This engine is sold without the distributor, carburetor, wires, pulleys,and water pump,
although they are available at an additional cost.

If this engine does not suit your needs, or for written quotes on options
or custom engines, please call our facility located outside of
Charlotte, NC, the heartland of racing. Warranty options are available.

What cha think?

[Travis B]

looks like a big time shop...never heard of them but what do I know???

looks like good parts are being used? Have you priced there warranty options?

[JoshStratton]

No I have not done that yet, but I think I will. I believe I remember seeing somewhere on their site that they warranty through a 2nd company.
http://www.tandlengines.com/

LOL I had not heard of them either, but they sell themselves like they are big. If YOU havent heard of them, then maybe I should be worried. I generally dont trust eBay engine companies, but they 'seem' reputable. I hate being a guinea pig.

[JoshStratton]

Also, the used case kind of worries me, although their representative assured me they are hand picked for the best ones...from what pile, i am not sure.

[Travis B]

I wonder what they would say if asked them for some contacts???? like there past customers? might be worth a shot. If that is there facility it is very nice, which is always a good thing

[JoshStratton]

I wonder what they would say if asked them for some contacts???? like there past customers? might be worth a shot. If that is there facility it is very nice, which is always a good thing

LOL can I speak to Derrick Cope please?

[dhardison]

I wonder what they would say if asked them for some contacts???? like there past customers? might be worth a shot. If that is there facility it is very nice, which is always a good thing

Yeah Josh, tell them you want to talk with one of these guys for a reference: Jarrett, Labonte, Nemechek, Spencer, Craven, LePage, Schrader, Skinner, Cope, Fisher........ LOL! Seriously that's a very good idea to ask and see what they say.

Charlotte is only 8-9 hours from here, so for me it would be worth a trip to see their facilities and maybe even pick up the engine to save on shipping costs. The list of internals seems pretty impressive.

Oh and it's a 'seasoned' block, not a 'used' block.... LOL

Dan

[Travis B]

LOL can I speak to Derrick Cope please?

some of those nascar guys are actually pretty cool...that is if you can get them on the phone. I was actually think maybe they had some cust other than nascar guys.......but maybe not

[JoshStratton]

some of those nascar guys are actually pretty cool...that is if you can get them on the phone. I was actually think maybe they had some cust other than nascar guys.......but maybe not

LOL I was just playing. That is a really good idea. I think I will do this....although if they are anything like me, they will only submit satisfied customers

Oh and it's a 'seasoned' block, not a 'used' block.... LOL

Hahahahah yeah I thought that was kinda funny. Like fighting words.

[ProdigyCustoms]

You want a honest answer, it is a horrible mis match. The heads are big and the cam is small. The 215s would be fine for a blower, nitrous or high RPM motor, but this thing will run out of wind with that cam long before you get to the sweet spot in those heads. I would much rather see 200 cc head, and a mid 230 / low 240s cam. This cam would still make plenty of vacum, and a small 3000RPM converter would make it a man. You want a beast, use those heads, cut them a tennie to get compression up to 10.8 or so, and bump the cam into the low 240s / high 240s. But now you are starting to thump a bit, but 500HP should be no problem. But honestly, I would still refer 200cc even then.

Also, I would not use Hyperexplosive pistons on anything except possibly a total stocker. The crank you could actually live with if you are not going to force it, the rods are actually pretty good, and those components do make for a nice light assembly. were as the forged h Beam stuff gets heavy

[JoshStratton]

Thanks Frank! This is what I was looking for. Would the cam be ok for a Turbo? He gave me those numbers when I emailed him asking about the forged crank for the future turbo.

NEVERMIND: I read that backwards

[Damn True]

Wouldnt Labonte's engines come from the Gibbs Racing engine shop and wouldn't Jarretts come from Robert Yates?

[JoshStratton]

I am guessing these guys purchased them long ago...or the first names were different and they just used them. These guys have been in business 25 years.

[Damn True]

Perhaps, but in saying that they do, or have supplied engines to those guys they are being somewhat disengenious. Is it Dale Jarrett the NASCAR driver, or Larry Jarrett the plumber from Fayetteville?
Was it for a race car some time in the past, or for a personal hot-rod.

[JoshStratton]

Exactly! I dont care too much for name droppers.

Here is the latest when I asked about the warranty:

Right---We give a 12kmile 12 mo warranty with each engine--We use premium parts in all of our kits--The latest imports are now matching and in most all acses BEATING the quality we had to pick from less than a year ago--We use forged pistons by JE and Mahle--we use forged cranks that we have custom made for our company by the best outfits in the business--If you prefer we can use a US "brand" like CALLIES--they look great but cost 3 times the amount of a nice import ( and we feel like there is no advantage for our applications ) so......rest assured with our great warranty and craftsmanship. Thanks

[ProStreet R/T]

I'm gonna have to agree with Prodigy here, thats quite a clusterfalk of a setup if you ask me.

Only $600 to upgrade to forged pistons and crank? That scares me, just upgrading to JE or CP pistons will cost you that much.

With the cam, is it a FT or Roller? Did they mention what the LSA and CL was? That will make a huge difference in how well it works with the turbo.

And why with those heads would they only run .500/.520 lift?

Personally I would step down to a good bit smaller head. The 215s on a low comp turbo motor, it's going to feel dead when your out of boost. Try to avoid buying into the bigger is better theory, especially on a turbo street motor. Build it on the conservative side and let the turbo do the work. Guarantee you'll still have enough power to wet your pants, and it will come in at a more street friendly rpm band.

Oh and don't worry about the used block. If it's been magnafluxed, sonic tested for wall thickness and comes out clean there shouldn't be a problem. I would say 75% of the motors out in classic cars are on used blocks.

[JoshStratton]

Only $600 to upgrade to forged pistons and crank? That scares me, just upgrading to JE or CP pistons will cost you that much.

Yeah it looks like the crank is an 'import'. Not sure from where. I think that killed it for me right there.

With the cam, is it a FT or Roller? Did they mention what the LSA and CL was? That will make a huge difference in how well it works with the turbo.

And why with those heads would they only run .500/.520 lift?

Personally I would step down to a good bit smaller head. The 215s on a low comp turbo motor, it's going to feel dead when your out of boost. Try to avoid buying into the bigger is better theory, especially on a turbo street motor. Build it on the conservative side and let the turbo do the work. Guarantee you'll still have enough power to wet your pants, and it will come in at a more street friendly rpm band.

Oh and don't worry about the used block. If it's been magnafluxed, sonic tested for wall thickness and comes out clean there shouldn't be a problem. I would say 75% of the motors out in classic cars are on used blocks.

I am not sure about the cam. I know they make it in-house. I will admit this, I am not too literate on engines. I am actually learning as I go as we speak. My goal is to acheive 500 hp at the rear wheels. This was the hope with the 383 and turbo. Maybe I should just stick with my original engine choice and get a 502. I just wanted to keep the weight down a bit.

[Travis B]

we have an aluminum headed 502 in a 57 chevy with a richmond six speed and 4.10 gears...........it will tear the tires off the car through three gears and is a lot of fun to drive....but 500hp is 500hp BBC or SBC. not trying to confuse you but we were very happy with the way the car ran

[Rick Dorion]

I wouldn't let an import crank bother you. My 40X is going to use a Scat. Many like Eagle too.

[JoshStratton]

we have an aluminum headed 502 in a 57 chevy with a richmond six speed and 4.10 gears...........it will tear the tires off the car through three gears and is a lot of fun to drive....but 500hp is 500hp BBC or SBC. not trying to confuse you but we were very happy with the way the car ran

If you dont mind me asking, do you know what the build sheet looked like?