Planning an Optima USCA BUild

[Spoolin6er]

Hi guys, I'm new to the pro touring world, but love the attitude of building cars meant to be driven!

I'm considering building a pro touring car for the optima GT Vintage class, and looking for some rule clarifications surrounding the "TCV" (Tube Chassis Vehicle) rules. I did some searching around but didn't find much, I think this is a relatively new add? Any ideas where I should start reading? The rules are very vague. I get this feeling that they are meant to be able to disqualify cars that they don't feel fit the spirit of their rules, which I get, but the last thing I want is to spend a few years building a car to find out it'd have to run in the Outlaw class.

This was mainly just to say hey and get pointed in the right direction, but here are the rules I'm referring to if you're not familiar:

10. Tube chassis vehicles (TCV’s) - TCV’s are not typically within the spirit of the OSUSCseries, however, we acknowledge that they can be built into acceptable performancestreet cars. Tube chassis cars are defined as vehicles with one or more of the following:
• Firewall, has been moved from original factory position, or removed/replaced toaccommodate chassis installation (this may also include factory floor and trunkpans)
• Chassis does not use original factory mounting points
• Roll cage is integral to chassis
• Body panels are attached directly to chassisAftermarket or factory replacement chassis that use factory mounting points, frontsubframe assemblies and other certain aftermarket components may not be consideredtube chassis.

All TCV’s must meet all of the following requirements to participate in the OSUSC series:• must have a factory OE VIN# attached to the vehicle and must be licensed andregistered for street driving.
• must weigh a minimum of 2600 pounds
• must not exceed 300 pounds of ballast
• must run in the Outlaw class regardless of overall weight or aero configuration

[icemanrd19]

FYI the outlaw class is the toughest in my opinion. What exactly do you plan on building? Why not just start with gtv and go from there? Have you road raced or autocrossed before?

[andrewb70]

Welcome!

Andrew

[Spoolin6er]

Thanks!

Right, that's my plan GTV. I'm trying to avoid the outlaw class for that reason haha. I'm trying to find clarification/ discussion around what the rules mean and how they are actually enforced so I don't end up in the out law class accidentally.

Example: "Roll cage is integral to chassis". What defines "integral"? Surely it can be attached to the chassis? I don't see any restrictions on stiffening the factory mounting points with something other than the roll cage, is that the intention of this rule?

I'd like to build something as small as possible small for the advantage in autox. That and I like small cars haha. Was thinking of a fox body or a vega. I'd really like to build an IRS for whatever I go with, but not sure how that will play with the "chassis must use original factory mounting points" rule.

I'm a licenced SCCA road racer and I've autox'ed for about 10yrs. Not good enough to win at solo nationals, so going the builder's route haha. Hoping to build something I can run in CAM-T and somewhere else - optima came to mind.

[Mark@lateral-dynamics]

Welcome indeed! You have some very pertinent questions, we'd also like to have clarification. But first off, be wary of the rules - often when a car becomes dominant in a series the other competitors typically raise voices and rules can and usually do, change. Pretty sure the tube frame issues in USCA arose from the completely dominant Camaro that Mike Dusold and team created. No one could touch them.

10. Tube chassis vehicles (TCV’s) - TCV’s are not typically within the spirit of the OSUSCseries, however, we acknowledge that they can be built into acceptable performancestreet cars. Tube chassis cars are defined as vehicles with one or more of the following:
• Firewall, has been moved from original factory position, or removed/replaced toaccommodate chassis installation (this may also include factory floor and trunkpans)
• Chassis does not use original factory mounting points
• Roll cage is integral to chassis
• Body panels are attached directly to chassisAftermarket or factory replacement chassis that use factory mounting points, frontsubframe assemblies and other certain aftermarket components may not be consideredtube chassis.

This is all pretty vague, which leaves room for the builder, but can also be used against a particular build. Some examples, and hopefully some of the USCA "officials" could reply here with intent/mandate?

Firewall: Uh, not sure exactly what this means but this is central to our next build, which is an early Mustang. Most everyone modify's them by smoothing, but how far can one go to this end before it's considered "moving?"

Chassis does not use factory mounting points: Mounting points for what? Major suspension pickup points? Body to frame mounts? Head scratcher.

Roll cage is integral to chassis: Uh, what? If it's NOT integral to the chassis, it is almost certainly unsafe/not a roll cage, and any other race oriented series (SCCA, NASA, etc) requires it to be integral, i.e. welded to the actual frame/subframe/subframe connectors - in order to be acceptable (general statement, of course there are small exceptions but in the spirit of this conversation....)

Body panels attached directly to the chassis: I have no clue what this really means, but for sure aftermarket subframes and even full chassis are often used. But does this mean we can't tie the roll cage into the A/B pillar areas? Have seen this done so it's a strange one and could be better defined.

In the end I'd suggest building a car that YOU want rather than to adhere to "all" of the rules. 'cause rules can and do change. If you build something so awesome that no one else can compete with it, you'll win to the point where they don't want you to anymore.

[Rod]

welcome, let me know if I can help... I have raced GTV for a few years

early years in optima finals Las vegas (first year of the mav TV show)



optima NCM

[Spoolin6er]

Thanks Mark,
I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the rules as inadequate and confusing. I had the feeling they were subject to change and likely purposely vague and flexible to outlaw cars they don't like. I'm hoping to build a car that they DO like so they won't outlaw it haha. I was thinking if I stay "in the spirit of the class" I'd have better luck. But I can't even tell what they are after with that rule set. Any ideas on where to go for clarification?

I've always wanted to build something like this, but the most important parts for me are the engineering aspect and being able to compete in it after I'm done. I'm very flexible on what I build or how I build it, but I need purpose for the build (some where to race it) or it feels like an even bigger waste of money than I already know it is haha.


Rod,
Great looking Camaro! How was your experience with GTV? Do you plan to go back?

Thanks for the replies!
-Matt

[Mark@lateral-dynamics]

I would think that unless you are going to do something really outside the "box," you'll be okay. Your approach with a small light car is spot on, I'd put weight as the first aspect of the build - exactly our plan with the next project. I'd suggest also taking a look at the other classes that you will probably want to run, such as SCCA CAM, NASA Time Trial (TT) classes, etc. With all of that you can define what you want to do with the cage, etc. There are a few aftermarket IRS setups out there that require significant alteration to the frames that no one is questioning so I wouldn't worry about that aspect. One other suggestion - don't make it "too" much race car - I'd run two sets of seat belts for instance, one for race and the standard retractable type for the street. I had a car that only had the race harnesses and it was miserable on the street for any long-ish drives.

All that said, if you can keep the weight REALLY low, then running in Outlaw shouldn't be something that will scare you off. I think a Dekon style Monza would be an excellent small light car, for instance, tons of room for tire and they look super cool.

Have fun!

[Elbert]

Howdy! That sounds like a fun project. Lots of helpful folks around here.