Enter your username:
Do you want to login or register?
  • Forgot your password?

    Login / Register



    Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: My 8HP70 swap.

    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11

      My 8HP70 swap.

      Hi, Hkan from Sweden here. Now that i have finished im doing a thread of my swap.

      This is the car i made the swap in, 1965 Dodge Coronet 440 with a mild 512cui engine and Holley sniper.

      Name:  IMG_20200627_111738.jpg
Views: 746
Size:  641.0 KB

      I have a very slow going pro touring project in the garage, same car as above:
      Name:  IMG_20200119_171338.jpg
Views: 681
Size:  220.5 KB

      I have been wanting to replace the old leaky 727 for an overdrive transmission a long time and in january or so i first heard of successful swaps in Poland of the 8HP70 using the https://htg-tuning.com/ GCU.
      This seemed like a good solution since it replaces the stock ECU in the transmission and fully controls it.

      So, i started researching and at the time i only knew the 8HP70 could be found in Dodges and BMWs and since the Dodge ones is very expensive in Europe i went with a BMW (i didnt find any measurments of the bellhousing so i had to estimate from pictures if it was likely to fit).
      I got one from a BMW F10 2014 but as soon as i got it home it was clear that the bolt pattern was way to small.

      So, after that i did more research and found out the 8HP70 was in a lot of different cars and found a Jaguar XF 2.2D wich looked right in size.
      Name:  s-l1600.jpg
Views: 684
Size:  147.1 KB
      This one was spot on in size, so now i had to fabricate an adapterplate. I found a blueprint of the 727 bigblock bellhousing so i could get the measurments of the engine side from that minus the holes for the starter.
      Name:  BB_Mopar_bell4.jpg
Views: 708
Size:  123.1 KB
      As for the transmission i first tried a method i saw online using a lexan plate secured o the transmission and then using guides in the holes drill thru the lexan to get the hole positions, i then had the guys in the measuring department at work run it in a Zeiss measuring machine. I then double checked the distances between the guide pin holes on the transmission vs the measured and it turned out this method wasnt exact enough.

      So i brought the transmission to a company and had them measure it properly, both the bellhousing and the output shaft flange.

      (To be continued, got to go to work).

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      I got very precise measurments so i then used Solidworks to make a model of the adapter, since the Jaguar 8HP70 has the torque converter sticking out a bit from the bellhousing i needed to make a quite thick plate.

      In conjunction with this i had to get a flexplate with ring gear for the starter since the torque converter doesnt have one. I decided to use one from ATI: ATI915650X used to put GM transmissions on Mopar bigblocks.

      Ill write all measurments in millimeters since thats what i use and i dont want to accidently miscalculate to inches and cause confusion.

      When i calculated the thickness of the flexplate and how much the torque converter was sticking out plus the needed play in-out of the transmission i ended up with a 35 mm plate.

      The flexplate is used with a crank adapter so the center hole is bigger then the crank pilot so i had to make an adapter for this. It adds 2 mm behind the flexplate and centers it.

      Name:  IMG_20200330_131848.jpg
Views: 641
Size:  240.7 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200403_145221.jpg
Views: 646
Size:  210.0 KB

      Also the pilot on the torque converter needs an adapter since its much smaller than the original one, seen in the picture above.

      Check to see it mounts straight. I used ARP 200-2902 bolts for the flexplate.

      Name:  IMG_20200403_150811.jpg
Views: 640
Size:  197.1 KB

      All good

      Next was making new holes in the flexplate for the torque converter bolts, made on the Deckel mill.

      Name:  received_3479386815459003.jpg
Views: 629
Size:  69.1 KB

      Fits like a glove (you can see the flexplate adapter here also)

      Name:  IMG_20200404_134229.jpg
Views: 646
Size:  249.5 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200404_134847.jpg
Views: 642
Size:  166.4 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200404_134904.jpg
Views: 630
Size:  244.3 KB

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      All this took a long time since i had to finish one step before i could do the next.

      Got the adapter plate from gas cutting, this is steel since the weight isnt important on this car, its cheaper and i can weld the dowel pins on.

      Name:  IMG_20200409_142439.jpg
Views: 637
Size:  204.1 KB

      Time to make the holes on the bigger mill at my brothers work. Its made in one setup and the holes for the dowel pins are drilled and reamed straight through to avoid having to flip it over.

      Name:  IMG_20200416_092914.jpg
Views: 627
Size:  299.9 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200416_111638.jpg
Views: 626
Size:  279.5 KB

      I finished drilling and making threads at home.

      Name:  IMG_20200416_132713.jpg
Views: 627
Size:  331.0 KB

      Testfitting with dowelpins, fits very snug (i later read that 3 pins isnt necessary and you an skip the top one).

      Name:  IMG_20200416_163242.jpg
Views: 630
Size:  241.7 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200416_163249.jpg
Views: 622
Size:  261.1 KB

      Engine and transmission mounted

      Name:  IMG_20200419_140601.jpg
Views: 621
Size:  285.3 KB

      Did a test with an indicator gauge on the flexplate and measuring to the input shaft on the transmission, about 0,23 mm total runout.

      https://youtu.be/O_AQvlQgR6E

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      I had to make connectors for the oil inlet and outlet, i used AN6 because the biggest oilcooler i could find at the speedshop had those connectors.

      Name:  IMG_20200421_144217.jpg
Views: 607
Size:  228.4 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200421_144125.jpg
Views: 607
Size:  123.3 KB

      Next was fitting the starter. Since i didnt have any measurments for this i made a plate with welded bolts that fit to the starter and then i aligned it to the starter ring with a nice gap. I then welded the plate to the adapter and made shims to align it in the length axis.

      Name:  IMG_20200425_153333.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  225.8 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200425_153805.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  130.1 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200425_153818.jpg
Views: 609
Size:  173.0 KB

      The Jaguar 8HP70 i use have a similar output axle flange as the Dodges but it is a bit smaller so i had to make an adapter for it also.
      I used the Spicer 3-2-119 Flange Yoke for 1350 universal joints and had a company CNC cut the adapter, i made the threads myself.

      Name:  IMG_20200506_152909.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  245.7 KB

      I used 12.9 grade M10 allen head bolts to fasten it to the flange.

      Name:  IMG_20200506_155147.jpg
Views: 614
Size:  147.5 KB

      And ARP 200-2807 for the yoke.

      Name:  IMG_20200506_163040.jpg
Views: 632
Size:  185.0 KB

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      Now it was time to modify the transmission so the GCU can control it, HTG-tuning have made an instruction wich can be found here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vMy...FeSe-BnD6/view

      Unfortunately when i did my soldering the instruction said to use thinner wire and they found out later that 17awg, 1mm2 was needed to drive the solenoids so i had to redo some of the cables as seen in the picture.

      Name:  IMG_20200610_165445.jpg
Views: 634
Size:  130.4 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200610_165717.jpg
Views: 614
Size:  180.6 KB

      I used Permatex grey to secure the cables.

      On these transmissions the oil filter is integrated in the oilpan, one for the Jaguar was about 110$ or so but since i had heard that all 8HP70s should be the same in this area i bought a cheap one for a BMW instead at 35$. It fit but one bolt in a corner was a bit tricky to get in, i think it was because of cheap product and not a difference in bolt pattern. And with this in the car for the first time in like 20 years it is not leaking transmission fluid!

      Here is a pic with the oilpan off and the torque converter attached to the flexplate, Bolts are 12.9 grade M10 allen head. The procedure to remove the mechatronic unit is kinda easy. The tricky part was to split the plastic cover to expose the ECU, you have to grind off 2 "knobs" on the plastic to separete the 2 halves. Unfortunately i dont have any pics of this.

      Name:  IMG_20200520_135235.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  281.8 KB

      When you are done with the soldering and have assembled the mechatronic unit again but before you put the oilpan on you should do a valvetest to see that the soldering is correct. See the testing part on htg-tuning.com FAQ section. Here is my result (poor pic):

      Name:  IMG_20200713_130115.jpg
Views: 604
Size:  259.4 KB

      Time to see how it fits in the car, since i have my project car in a rotisserie i put the engineblock and transmission on a lifting table and rolled it under to see how much i need to cut out of the tunnel.

      Name:  IMG_20200528_160841.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  246.5 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200528_160822.jpg
Views: 608
Size:  245.8 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200528_135054.jpg
Views: 601
Size:  167.6 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200528_135034.jpg
Views: 613
Size:  244.1 KB

      The clearance was decent but it was hitting the transmission crossmember, the 8HP70 is much bigger in this area than the 727. I cut out part of the crossmember.

      Name:  IMG_20200528_160755.jpg
Views: 611
Size:  252.1 KB

      Now i could get it to where it should be but it was very close to the tunnel so i decided to cut it all out and make a new one plus a new inverted crossmember.

      Name:  IMG_20200613_161810.jpg
Views: 611
Size:  210.1 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200613_131609.jpg
Views: 613
Size:  326.7 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200612_190856.jpg
Views: 609
Size:  242.4 KB

      Later it turned out i should have made the crossmember a bit higher to allow the transmission to be raised a bit more for better driveline angles, it works for now though.

      New transmission mount needed, i could use the outer holes in the transmission crossmember and drilled 2 new ones in new location. I used a Energy Suspension Transmission Mounts 3.1108G and welded up the frame (not the best pictures).

      Name:  IMG_20200620_113745.jpg
Views: 625
Size:  222.9 KB
      Name:  IMG_20200618_142440.jpg
Views: 617
Size:  517.1 KB

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      425
      Country Flag: United States
      Nice work. You're going to like that transmission, but you'll probably want around 3.08 rear gears depending on tire diameter. That first gear's a lot steeper than you had.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by Vimes View Post
      Nice work. You're going to like that transmission, but you'll probably want around 3.08 rear gears depending on tire diameter. That first gear's a lot steeper than you had.
      Thanks. Yes its a great transmission, i have 3.55 now and i might change it in winter. Currently im using gears 2-8 so first gear is actually second.
      I have 2100 rpm in 100 km/h.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      Here is a video of a short testdrive in manual mode:

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jul 2021
      Posts
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
      This one was spot on in size, so now i had to fabricate an adapterplate. I found a blueprint of the 727 bigblock bellhousing so i could get the measurments of the engine side from that minus the holes for the starter.
      Name:  BB_Mopar_bell4.jpg
Views: 708
Size:  123.1 KB
      As for the transmission i first tried a method i saw online using a lexan plate secured o the transmission and then using guides in the holes drill thru the lexan to get the hole positions, i then had the guys in the measuring department at work run it in a Zeiss measuring machine. I then double checked the distances between the guide pin holes on the transmission vs the measured and it turned out this method wasnt exact enough.

      So i brought the transmission to a company and had them measure it properly, both the bellhousing and the output shaft flange.
      Hi Hakan,
      Do you have the CAD available?
      We have Solidworks and I'd like to mate an 8HP to my 413 Dodge.

      Ray

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by rjsdotorg View Post
      Hi Hakan,
      Do you have the CAD available?
      We have Solidworks and I'd like to mate an 8HP to my 413 Dodge.

      Ray
      I dont have access to solidworks now but i think the files in the linked google drive map is the right ones. Print them out in scale 1:1 and compare them to engine and transmission before you start building anything.

      Also use the correct jaguar transmission, there are a few different ones.

      https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...2C?usp=sharing

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jul 2021
      Posts
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
      I dont have access to solidworks now but i think the files in the linked google drive map is the right ones. Print them out in scale 1:1 and compare them to engine and transmission before you start building anything.

      Also use the correct jaguar transmission, there are a few different ones.
      Do you have a part number or Jag year/application for yours?
      I'm hoping to use the 8HP70 from behind a Dodge RAM / Hemi, and I will check vs. the Jag patterns of course.
      I would not have confidence in the Jag trans mounted in a 12,000lb RV for long...

      All of the RAM pickup versions have sufficient GCWR for an RV without trailer, but the model used with the 3.7L V6 is smaller pattern, apparently.

      I also spoke with JVX Racing. They may have a big block adapter already to go in a couple of months. He said maybe some adjustments and tests are needed. I think his is for a different model 8HP as it will not need 33mm spacing.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      I see, if you are in the USA its probably easier and cheaper to get a transmission from a dodge and have it measured and make an adapter or buy one when it gets available.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jan 2020
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      11
      I used one from a 2013 Jaguar XF 2.2 Turbo diesel with article number: CX23-7000-DE.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jul 2021
      Posts
      3

      8HP70 in hand

      I did pick up a ZF from a 2015 RAM1500 Hemi pickup

      Name:  IMG_0869.JPG
Views: 143
Size:  1.38 MBName:  IMG_0870.JPG
Views: 142
Size:  542.9 KB

      which of course is a different pattern than the Jag.
      But, the 440 and 413 have the same 6 bolt crank and block, so all I need (that I don't have) is the dimensions of that.
      I'll see if I can get them from the drawings - ie how much the crank flange sticks out from the block and the flange bolt pattern.

      Here is the 413-1 RV block:
      Name:  Jun 72 413.jpg
Views: 143
Size:  570.3 KB





    Tags for this Thread