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    Results 1 to 19 of 19
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      825
      Country Flag: United States

      c&R radiator with or without EOC and PSC

      Ok time I purchased a radiator fory 67 Camaro. Should I do C&R with EOC and PSC or without.
      Naturally aspirated LS7 650hp.
      Will see occasionally an autox or roaad course for fun not competition.
      Thanks
      Jason
      TANKMASTERJ
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...touring-Camaro
      Jasons Toys
      67 Camaro White Lightning LMR LS7 powered, Speed tech Front and Rear.
      2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 the Blue Devil
      2000 HD Softail
      1989 CBR Hurricane anniversary edition

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      I would do the coolers. At least I did with mine. Used an engine oil thermostat to make sure the oil gets up to temperature.

      http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...nes-p-209.html

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      NJ
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      1,293
      Country Flag: United States
      The guy at C&R encouraged me to run an external oil cooler in case of an engine failure sending stuff through the oil lines and integrated cooler, therefore ruining an expensive radiator.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
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      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post
      The guy at C&R encouraged me to run an external oil cooler in case of an engine failure sending stuff through the oil lines and integrated cooler, therefore ruining an expensive radiator.
      That sounds a little crazy to me. Mark Stielow runs integrated coolers in his C&R radiators and that’s good enough for me.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Austin, Tx
      Posts
      495
      Country Flag: United States
      I also ran the integrated coolers after discussion with C&R. They never attempted to talk me out of that (years ago, but still). We actually discussed the potential advantage of heating the oil up when I was street driving by having the water-to-oil cooler instead of just an air cool. On my original setup with an external cooler (air), I had to cover the cooler on the street to have the oil heat up enough. No thermostat though...
      Bryan (a.k.a. Carbuff)

      70 Camaro RS Hunk'o'Metal - Previous Project
      71 Firebird Project T.O.W. - New Project

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      825
      Country Flag: United States
      This is what I love about the forum. guys come at you with information from every angle
      TANKMASTERJ
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...touring-Camaro
      Jasons Toys
      67 Camaro White Lightning LMR LS7 powered, Speed tech Front and Rear.
      2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 the Blue Devil
      2000 HD Softail
      1989 CBR Hurricane anniversary edition

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Posts
      233
      Country Flag: United States
      With coolers; south Texas heat and 500 rwhp with no problems

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Austin, Tx
      Posts
      495
      Country Flag: United States
      Good point. I should point out that I've run 30 minute session full out at COTA in the summer heat at COTA with no cooling issues between the PS and OIL coolers in the C&R radiator. I did add a dry sump to the car to address other oiling issues, but with the C&R, cooling was not one of them! Very nice unit they make, and by packaging it to fit in the original location and space, it's easy to install and plumb...
      Bryan (a.k.a. Carbuff)

      70 Camaro RS Hunk'o'Metal - Previous Project
      71 Firebird Project T.O.W. - New Project

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      I too use a C&R with integral oil cooler. It was put in around 16 years ago before PS heat exchangers were popular. The next time the radiator comes out I'll add it.

      To reduce the chances of contaminating the oil cooler core a remote filter is used prior to the heat exchanger, hence protecting it from damage and clogging if something from the engine pukes out.

      I too tried running a Mocal thermostat but found that it had little affect. The thermostst bypasses enough through the cooler that the oil remains quite cold, enough so that the needle on the gauge does not move on cold days when street driving.
      Last edited by CarlC; 09-17-2020 at 07:19 PM.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Sep 2016
      Location
      Bakersfield, CA
      Posts
      603
      Country Flag: United States
      I went the more complex route, for the sake of best possible cooling. Where I drive can be 120F for months during the summer, add that with open track days at a track in that environment (WSIR & BRP) and I wanted extreme cooling. I also plan on doing Power Tour, Drag Week, and several other bucket list items and I wanted cooling to be the last thing I have to worry about. I also don't compete and just plan on doing it for fun. All of my lines are routed inside my fenders so it keeps the engine bay still as clean as possible.

      I did just a C&R radiator with their best fans/shroud (have the flaps) and their recommended their 30lb cap. Of course, I have an overflow in case. I then added a stacked plate cooler for both the oil and power steering. They each have fans w/relays, filters just before the cooler, and are kicked on by thermal switches w/relays. The oil cooler of course has a thermostat as well. My C&R Spal fans and my Meziere EWP are run by a pwm controller. An EWP is a MUST!!!

      Doing this also means I'm not overtaxing the capabilities of the radiator by having to cool the engine oil and PS. This was a bit overkill for my existing 461ci Pontiac stroker, but I have a 535ci stroker coming from Butler next year I'm planning for. I do not have a cooler on my T56 magnum yet but will, same for the next Ford 9" center section I buy from GearFX. Lessons learned, but those will not have fans/wiring, just small stacked plate coolers.

      All of that said, if you are not in such a harsh environment and want to lessen complexity, by all means, do the integrated coolers.
      http://www.TheFOAT.com/92GTA
      1969 Pontiac Firebird
      w/535ci IAII aluminum block, Dailey dry sump, Holley EFI (full road race build). Primer black w/black interior.
      1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      825
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm in Arkansas summer. Lots of days 100-105. But again I'll be cruising. And couple times a year hit auto x and I'm planning a road Atlanta and a power tour trip as Bucket list. But being naturally aspirated LS7 and above uses, based on everyone's experience here on the forum it sounds like the integrated EOC and PSC on a C&R should do just fine
      TANKMASTERJ
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...touring-Camaro
      Jasons Toys
      67 Camaro White Lightning LMR LS7 powered, Speed tech Front and Rear.
      2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 the Blue Devil
      2000 HD Softail
      1989 CBR Hurricane anniversary edition

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Austin Texas
      Posts
      641
      I have an older version of the C&R with both coolers integrated. Its a really nice setup and works great.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      825
      Country Flag: United States
      You guys with C and R LS Swap radiator, what you do for hoses. One got a Wegner automotive front drive in a Speedtech subframe
      TANKMASTERJ
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...touring-Camaro
      Jasons Toys
      67 Camaro White Lightning LMR LS7 powered, Speed tech Front and Rear.
      2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 the Blue Devil
      2000 HD Softail
      1989 CBR Hurricane anniversary edition

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Posts
      433
      Quote Originally Posted by TANKMASTERJ View Post
      You guys with C and R LS Swap radiator, what you do for hoses. One got a Wegner automotive front drive in a Speedtech subframe
      I'm not one of those guys you mentioned but... How about make your own? https://autoplumb.com/collections/20...nversion-parts

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      825
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Just 1 More View Post
      I'm not one of those guys you mentioned but... How about make your own? https://autoplumb.com/collections/20...nversion-parts
      Well I used autoplumb adapters for the heater core feeds. I don't have enough room where my C and R radiator lower hose barb points at my Speedtech pro touring subframe. I printed out all the PDFs on autoplumb website and you tape together the cut outs and test fit.i could run them everywhere else but not the lower.
      So I'm looking for an alternative
      TANKMASTERJ
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...touring-Camaro
      Jasons Toys
      67 Camaro White Lightning LMR LS7 powered, Speed tech Front and Rear.
      2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 the Blue Devil
      2000 HD Softail
      1989 CBR Hurricane anniversary edition

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jul 2019
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      313
      Country Flag: United States
      Rodger at Speedtech might have some suggestions. I find them very helpful whenever I call with a question.

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      147
      We need a group buy on the C&R product.

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Out of the Burbs of Detroit to SoCal, then onto my ancestral homeland, the woods of Cascadia
      Posts
      1,753
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post
      The guy at C&R encouraged me to run an external oil cooler in case of an engine failure sending stuff through the oil lines and integrated cooler, therefore ruining an expensive radiator.
      Seriously fuzzy logic. Assume for the moment it was impossible to assure all crap from an engine failure is removed from the integral oil cooler- THEN I'd suggest an external oil cooler rather than replacing a radiator. But to not install becausde something MIGHT happen? Maybe you shouldn't drive because you might get in an accident, etc
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

      1970 Camaro RS Clone
      1984 el Camino
      1973 MGB vintage E/Prod race car
      (Soon to be an SCCA H/Prod limited prep)

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Feb 2022
      Posts
      8
      Everything is a compromise and combining heat exchangers is a compromise as well. The upside of putting oil coolers into the engine radiator tanks is that the integrated coolers makes mounting and plumbing cleaner and helps warm up the PS and engine oil. Nice things to eliminate the expense and restrictions of thermostatic controls for warm up.
      The limitations of heat rejection is that there is limited surface area in placing oil coolers in your radiator tanks. I spoke with Ron Davis radiators years ago about this when I was dead-set on getting the oil cooler into the radiator tank.
      Go ahead and compare the typical size of an integral cooler to that of a 'divorced' cooler that is separate of the engine radiator. Another good point also raised was if you blow the engine, how are you going to service that oil cooler that is welded into the radiator?
      Blow an engine? Throw away the cooler. Can never clean a cooler to 100% surety that your rebuilt mill isn't going to ingest the previous grenade's filth. If my engine costs thousands to rebuild I'm not going to risk a reusing the same cooler.







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