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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Apr 2003
      Location
      chbg, pa
      Posts
      1,157

      Lets talk fire suppression systems !

      I am looking into possibly putting a fire system into FUEL . Anyone that knows anything about the specifics would be nice . It is to my understanding they are only desingned to protect you and not the car . I however would like it to do both . Is it wise to put nozzles inside the car and in the engine compartment also . I beleive that about 90% of all fire seem to start in the engine comparment ?



      Any specific brand anyone would prefer? Thanks Jason


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Nov 2004
      Location
      NW Arkansas
      Posts
      1,742
      I know Bob johnson cuda is getting a fire system....try pm'ing htrdbldr(alan johnson) he should know the in and outs of what he is putting in the cuda!
      KENNY DAVIS HOTRODS

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Cape Cod Mass.
      Posts
      245
      first you want it to get you , second the engine compartment usually on the fuel pump side or at the back of the engine compatment near the middle so it will cover the whole engine . We always have a third one in the fuel compartment or somewhere so it will cover the fuel cell or gas tank. Most systems will help put out a fire or atleast give you some more time to get out , its a good idea to carry a small extiguisher in the trunk or somewhere so you don't have to use your system if its a small fire
      Good luck .FIRE BOTTLE is the brand we use and have had good luck so far
      NOW WHAT??? lol

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      It's a good idea.
      My race car system has two outlets, one on me, the other on the fuel pumps.
      It has a spring loaded manual pull cable. This type is more easily serviced by local vendors. There are electric type with explosive charges but they have to be sent back to the mfr to be refilled.
      Halon is great if you can still find it. Funny thing is, the NASCAR guys almost never trigger their systems, they spend all their energy getting OUT of the car.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Apr 2003
      Location
      chbg, pa
      Posts
      1,157
      Summit Racing sells a holan kit . did you see it ? Seems reasonable?

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jul 2002
      Location
      Mesquite, TX
      Posts
      4,901
      Country Flag: United States
      Halon is great, with a couple of caveats:

      1. If you spray halon in a running motor, the halon will remove ALL of the oxygen leaving you with a motor running impossibly lean, and probably junking it in the process.

      2. If you spray halon in the cab, the halon will remove ALL of the oxygen from the cab leaving you with nothing to breathe, leaving you running rather lean and possibly junking you in the process.

      3. My understanding is that production of Halon has ceased, so you may end up with a system you cannot refill.

      Number 1 can be worked around by linking the ignition to the halon so that the ignition shuts off when you trigger the system; number 2 can be worked around by taking a deep breath before triggering, but number three doesn't really have a good workaround.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Without oxygen, how does the engine run? Too much oxidider and not enough fuel is lean. Without an oxidizer to promote commbustion the engine should stop running.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      There are two main types of Halon, 1211 and 1301. the 1301 is supposed to be "breatheable", and is recommended for airplane use. The Lola I race is an open car, so I figure it isn't going to be too much of a concentration for too long especially at head level, the outlet is at knee level, under the dash.

      Halon is being recycled from older systems. It was installed for use in Kitchen fire suppression systems, and factory or warehouse use, and supplied by tanks of the stuff into pipes with sprinkler nozzles triggered by heat. Eventually supplies will run out and other options will have to be explored. BUT my Halon system is over 10 years old and hasn't been triggered yet, probably never will if I'm lucky. The point is, the system isn't going to be triggered very often. A dry chem type extinuisher needs to be serviced every year to to powder caking. The halon systems just need to weigh the cylinder to see that it's full.

      You can buy small bottles with one nozzle to put over your car in the garage or trailer for automatic triggering.

      The Halon can be triggered and it won't impair vision like powder types. There are now Halon substitutes that are wet foam type mixes.

      Here is the brand I have. http://www.firebottleracing.com/
      Last edited by David Pozzi; 12-28-2005 at 08:44 PM.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jan 2003
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      5,388
      Country Flag: United States
      I have a Safety Systems Firebottle in my car. One nozzle directed at both driver and passenger. Pull pin located in the stock cigarette lighter location. Screw the car! If things get ugly I want as much time as possible to get out. So the entire bottle's volume is directed for human protection. If you want to save the car as well, realize that you will need to plan for a lot of bottle volume.

      NOTE also that there are TWO pins. The main pull pin (remote operated by cable) and the safety pin (located at the bottle). So presumably, the firebottle is of little use to you on the street since you will drive around with the safety pin in place. Then, at the track, you would remove the safety pin and rely on the pull pin in the event of a fire. Don't think so much about saving the car. Concentrate on saving your ass.

      Safety Systems is the way to go. Donnie Skaggs knows his business. Summit is in the business of shipping boxes--not saving lives.


      Another Tip: If you are thinking about fire suppression, you should also pay attention to the use of an electric fuel pump. When your car is on its roof and you are on fire, an electric fuel pump is your worst enemy.
      If it's carbureted, use a traditional pushrod style pump such as the new Racepump from Stewart Development.
      If it's fuel injected, call Sid. http://www.watermanracing.com/remote...able_drive.htm
      ________________
      Steve Chryssos

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Cape Cod Mass.
      Posts
      245
      we run an oil pressure switch that shuts off an electric fuel pump when there is no oil pressure its a good idea for anyone with an electric pump I've seen some little fires become very scary because no one shut the pump off
      NOW WHAT??? lol

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      Steve,
      Mine has the pin on the bottle which I allways leave out. It is just for use when the cable is removed, with cable removed the pin keeps the bottle from firing.

      My cable pull knob has a pin that I install when off the track. But I have been leaving the pin out of the knob this year since I tend to forget to remove it when going on track. I have a new HANS head restraint, and the extra distraction hooking it up has made me forget to pull the Fire Extinguisher pin.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Jan 2003
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      5,388
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by David Pozzi
      Steve,
      Mine has the pin on the bottle which I allways leave out. It is just for use when the cable is removed, with cable removed the pin keeps the bottle from firing.

      My cable pull knob has a pin that I install when off the track. But I have been leaving the pin out of the knob this year since I tend to forget to remove it when going on track. I have a new HANS head restraint, and the extra distraction hooking it up has made me forget to pull the Fire Extinguisher pin.
      On your race car. Agreed. No safety pins at the track. I'm saying that on the street, I keep both safety pins in place otherwise someone-- probably-my-sister in law (who we affectionately refer to as "Magoo" and "Calamity Annie") would certainly pull on the damn T handle.
      ________________
      Steve Chryssos

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
      Posts
      9,583
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by streetfytr68
      On your race car. Agreed. No safety pins at the track. I'm saying that on the street, I keep both safety pins in place otherwise someone-- probably-my-sister in law (who we affectionately refer to as "Magoo" and "Calamity Annie") would certainly pull on the damn T handle.


      Oh gawd...I can picture this. Steve and the aforementioned "Calamity Annie" pull into a bank so Steve-o can grab some cash from the ATM. Steve gets out, Annie gets bored...."Hmmm, what's this do?"

      BOOOOMWOOOOSH!
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

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      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      I was asked to drive my friend's Lola T-70 up to the tech line from his pit. He plugged in the battery cart while I started it up. For some reason, he armed the on-board fire sytem. When he got things ready, he said "OK, FIRE it up! For some reason I poked the FIRE button instead of the START button next to it. It was the electric triggered type and I had to just sit there while it completely discharged, no ill effects at all, nice sunny day with no wind. I wish he'd said "OK, START it up", instead of "FIRE it up".

      Steve, good thought about preventing unwanted triggering of the bottle.

      Maybe you should handcuff your passengers?
      Last edited by David Pozzi; 01-04-2006 at 09:03 PM.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Central California
      Posts
      2,050
      Country Flag: United States
      It was pretty funny . . .
      mpozzi . . . '73 Camaro RS, '69 Camaro SCCA/Trans-Am vintage racer, and a 1989 R7U 1LE Players Challenge car.

      "STICK, you B*TCH!!!!!!"

      "It's not a horse. You can't train it!! "


    16. #16
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Cologne, Germany
      Posts
      45
      I was heavily involved in setting up the fire system in the Viper Comp Coupe. We used the SPA Technique Firefighter system with 4 liters of AFFF (aqueous film forming foam). The system was fully certified by a rep of SPA that flew over from Europe just to witness the test. It has 2 in the engine compartment shooting down the fuel rails, 2 behind the bulkhead shooting over the fuel cell, and 1 on each side of the dash shooting at the occupants waist. The nozzles have about a 90 degree pattern, so it will wet the person completely up to the neck allowing full vision to get out. Even with 6 nozzles, it is good for about 25 seconds of protection.

      The AFFF is MUCH better than halon. It fully wets the surface to keep the fire from reigniting after putting it out and still allows you to breathe. You don't need to be starving for air while trying to crawl out the window. Also, it acts as a really good cleaner/degreaser when whiping it up.

      No matter what system you go with, be very careful when you cut the lines. It is best to gradually use a rotary pipe cutter like you'd use to cut copper plumbing or brake lines as it leaves no burr on the outside as it pushes toward the center, then open the ID back up with an ice pick. No matter what type of blade you use (razor, scissors, etc) it will leave a burr on the trailing edge that can very easily give false positive when pushing it into the quick connect fitting most of the systems come with. The burr snags the o-ring and you think you have it all the way in but you are only just touching the o-ring, then it leaks from the backside instead of spraying through the front when you need it. Something very important we learned and I spent a lot of time going to World Challenge and Viper Racnig League races checking every car produced to make sure there where no leaks.
      1969 Z/28 Dropped 2" GW uppers, lowers, leafs w/delrin, QA1 coilovers w/450 lb/in, Unisteer R&P, 1" solid anti-roll bar, subframe connectors, Billet specialties SLX-45 18X8 and 18X9 with Toyo RA-1 245/40/18 and F1-GS-D3 275/40/18. C5 Z06 brakes, 408 ci LS2, Viper T56 trans.

      2007 Wildkart shifter kart with Honda CR125 engine.
      2004 Dodge SRT4 daily driver and track day car, stage 2, rear ARB, dropped 2 inches
      1997 K1500 Z71 tow vehicle

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Jan 2003
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      5,388
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Jewce
      I was heavily involved in setting up the fire system in the Viper Comp Coupe. We used the SPA Technique Firefighter system with 4 liters of AFFF (aqueous film forming foam). ....
      Sounds very well thought out. It's important to note that this system was specifically designed to save both the vehicle and its occupants--including 4 liters of agent. The average system uses much less volume and therefore prioritizes the occupants. They are designed to buy time for the occupants--not necessarily extinquish fires and or save the vehicle.
      ________________
      Steve Chryssos

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
      Posts
      9,583
      Country Flag: United States
      Here are a couple of AFFF systems. 3 zone, passenger compartment, engine compartment, fuel cell (trunk). Looks pretty complete:

      http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...-liter-kit.htm
      http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...-liter-kit.htm

      Two zone system:
      http://www.truechoice.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TRURC4LE
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

      My blog

      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Location
      Northern Indiana
      Posts
      737

      Fire Extinguisher

      Who has a fire extinguisher mounted in their car?
      I am thinking of adding one possibly mounted on the trans tunnel
      (no console)
      I really don't want to go with red or chrome. The interior has a lot of brushed aluminum (steering column,steering wheel,gauge cluster pod and glove box door) and I cannot find anything to match.
      I guess that I could paint one to match the body color Urban Grey.
      Thoughts?
      Scott
      G Force Designs Concepts #004
      "Quicksilver"
      1965 Mustang Fastback
      347/450hp FRPP crate engine,G Force T5
      SSBC 4wdb,Budnik M5's etc...
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      2011 GT500
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      Stripe delete
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      Stock for now
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      70 Pro Touring Nova
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      SOLD

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Jul 2002
      Location
      Muskegon, MI
      Posts
      4,494
      I will be watching this thread closely because a fire extinguisher is on my list of things to do before April. It will either be mounted between my 2 rear bucket seats with a quick release pin. Or it will be mounted in front of the passenger front seat. I would just paint it to match your interior. Thats what I will do.
      Mounted on the trans tunnel would work well in your situation. You could even use it as an arm rest. If nothing else in your interior matches the body color then paint it to match the interior.
      Adam_______Offical Car Name "ILLUSION"
      383 Stroker, Stock cast heads, T-56 tranny, 4.11 gears, 2002 T/A dash, 4th gen interior including seatbelts, power lumbar seats, 18" Budnik Wheels, Hydraboost, QA1 shocks, DC Controller, Power steering conversion, fuel cell, unique exhaust set up........
      ILLUSION Website-----------Old Website--------------My Car on Lateral-g.net----------- Need something designed?-AdFabDesign

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