A-body front suspension advice

[rohrt]

Now that I have a filed a dispute with my CC company over never getting my parts from SC&C I need to figure out how to get what I need to get my car back on the road. I still feel Marcus gave me solid advice.

Car is a 64 Pontiac Tempest Convertible that is just a fun cruiser. I had planned on just replacing the Arm bushing with the ridetech Delrin bushing and the ProForged tall BJ.
I then discovered 3 of my arms were junk so had to decide what direction to go. I'm still using drum brake up front for now.

The plane that Marcus help me decide on was get a stock replacement lower control arm and use the deline bushing I have. That way I can keep with the drum brakes. (I did this and its ready)
Then get the adjustable SPC arms with delrin bushings and the HOWE tall BJ for the top. We all know how much he loves the Howe BJ
Plus I was going to get the Varishocks for just the front since I was using my old KYB firebird shocks. He said they don't have the full travel.

• So looking around on Summit they have the SPC arm (94320) but they come with rubber bushing not delrin and I don't see an option for it. SC&C arms say they have 4130 cross shafts. They also come with I assume a stock BJ. Was Marcus was selling his own variant of this arm? Hovering over the stock photo had the number spc94364pro. I realize its just a stock photo and probably doesn't' mean anything.
• Should I just use the proforge .5 taller BJ I got with my ridetech stuff and skip using the Howe BJ? Does the proforge have the same 64* range of motion?
• I purchased the Moog Lower BJ but I have not put them in yet. Does Howe or PF make a better stock press in lower BJ I could use?

Lost and confused

[raustinss]

Whats the goal for rhe car

[rohrt]

Whats the goal for the car

Just a fun cruiser. It will not be raced or autocrossed. I will eventually go disc brakes and fatter tires.

[rohrt]

Was there an old and new design of the SPC arms?

I see this Summit they have the SPC arm (94320) and also (97110)

[stab6902]

For a street only car I'd stick with mostly factory style components. Any name brand factory style lower ball joint will be fine. The tall uppers are the way to go.

Why not find a decent set of factory control arms and rebuild those with the components you have? If you're not autocrossing, the 4 degrees or so of castor you can get with the stock uppers is acceptable. If you go with too much more than that your front wheels won't look centered in the wheel well anyway (unless you also get lowers with more castor built in).

What size/make/model (or at least performance category/tread wear) tires will you be running? Once you decide how you will use the car, you pick the tires, and then that determines how far you need to go on the suspension to end up with a well matched setup.

[raustinss]

If its just a cruiser id check out speedtech snd or abc performance.net ... they both have some nice a arms ... abc has an adjustable version like spc

[the450r]

Howe makes a tall lower ball joint that would work great in a factory lower control arm. It helps correct geometry and will lower the car slightly 3/4" i believe. You could still keep your factory brakes. The tall ball joints don't come installed in the arms. The tall upper is a must to fix the camber gain. With spc or abc uppers you will easily be able to set the alignment. They have two different uppers one is greaseble and one is derlin. That would be a great street package and affordable.

[pitts64]

I disagree with those saying you don't need this on the street, you need this just as much as any racer in todays fast paced traffic. I have the SC&C Stage III with a Lee 14:1 30 pound valve box.. My 69 el Camino zipps around like a go cart. Nimble as any sports car with 8/8.5 degrees of positive caster and .25 degree of negative camber.. Before changing the front end, my car turned very slow, I used to have to spin that wheel like crazy, I was going to get one of those speed knobs like they had in the fifties... lol

[jetmech442]

Pitts64 and the450r have good points. When I started my LS swap 10 years ago(geeze really?), I got the SPC uppers, tall upper BJ and the CPP 4 wheel disc brake kit with 2'' drop spindles and hotchkis 1'' drop springs. The uppers allowed me to get the alignment the same on both sides and to a more modern spec(not all the way, but much better). The tall uppers helped a lot, but were kind of negated by the drop spindles. My upper arms pointed down towards the tire and needed about an inch of wheel travel before they would cross horizontal and begin pulling in that good camber.

I will say these changes alone made me want to drive the car so much more. The weird stuff with the drop spindles never surfaced on the street, ever. Only about 8 years later when I started to hit road courses did I start to notice that it was an issue. Aside that, the rear "GM Metric" calipers could never be properly adjusted with the parking brake and left me with a spongy pedal for nearly a decade. I swapped them out with wilwood D152's and had a hard pedal instantly.

about 4 years after that conversion, I added the Varishock SS, and couldn't have been happier with the smooth controlled ride whether spirited street or cruising around. Again, I only wanted/needed an adjustable when I started getting more aggressive in a few of the corners at blackhawk farms.

I then added the tall lower BJ which is a net 1.5'' drop(3/4'' * Motion ratio of 2). I used SPC spring spacers to counter act the drop because there wasn't much travel left and it looked ridiculous lol. But the new BJ made a noticeable improvement on bump steer, so street driving AND track driving became more predictable.

Recently, I ditched the drop spindles in favor of a stock spindle. My arms are now horizontal and any wheel travel gets after that camber with the quickness .

If I could do everything over again with the intention of street driving cruising only, I would say adjustable uppers with a tall BJ, Varishock SS, tall lower BJ(stock lower arm), stock disc brake spindle, D52 calipers in front(wilwoods are easier to bleed, lighter, and more sexy lol), D152 calipers in rear (no rear parking brake) and finally a spring to achieve the last bit of drop I need.

Hope this helps.

[chevelletiger]

If its just a cruiser id check out speedtech snd or abc performance.net ... they both have some nice a arms ... abc has an adjustable version like spc

Those are spc arms he just has them powder coated black

[raustinss]

abc im assuming youre refering to ?correct ... the difference is youre dealing with Tony... not Mark lol . As for the others theyre not adjustable which for a street cruiser would he more than enough , the geometry has been corrected and lets be honest unless youre racing ... who really adjusts the A arms once the car has had an alignment

[chevelletiger]

You banging on mark now too?!��

[raustinss]

Have you not read some of the most recent reports if his dealings . For those reasons yes ... previous to he would be the very first person id recommend a A body person to deal with . Why am i wrong with these thoughts ? Or opinion ?

[Hotwire]

Mark is robbing Peter to pay Paul at this point. He's a great salesman, but is not following up on orders. I've seen several people fall into his excuse storm and never receive their parts. Just recently a co-worker had to cancel his CC order after 8 months of excuses to get his money back. If you've ordered through SC&C and are getting excuses about manfacturer, call the manufacturer direct, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's unfortunate that he's gotten to this point. (end soapbox)

I have a 64, stock frame, still stock c-channel, but it's 4 door so body is a bit stiffer due to the B pillar.

I'm running the following:
FRONT:
94320 SPC fully adjustable uppers (rubber bushing)
0.9" taller proforged upper ball joint (corrected negative camber curve, went from +3 measured to -3 after install
0.5" taller proforged lower ball joint, completely eliminated bumpsteer, it is awesome to drive over bridge abutments/bumps and not have the steering wheel try to jerk out of your hand
ebay lower tubular a-arms with delrin/nylon bushings (replaced ball joints, 0 problems) with caster dialed in front wheels are a little bit towards the rear of the wheelwell, unsure if name brand lowers would fix this
CPP 2" drop spindles
CPP disc brake hubs
stock 2000 Z28 rotors/calipers/pads
stock moog replacement springs
stock style KYB Gas-A-Just shocks
proforged centerlink/tierods/idler
2002 S10 ZQ8 steering box (quick ratio, bolts right in)
hydroboost off a 2005 tahoe
hellwig solid 1 5/16" sway bar (it's 28lbs on the nose, go with tubular!)
REAR:
BMR solid lowers with heim joint type bushings
speedway motors adjustable uppers (for pinion angle with LS swap)
energy suspension poly bushings in diff housing
stock 2000 Z28 rotors/calipers/pads
stock moog replacement springs
stock style KYB Gas-A-Just shocks
stock style sway bar

This is a budget build and it's working great so far. You can walk up and kick the front bumper and the car doesn't move. Before it would shimmy like a whale in heat.

At some point I want to get stiffer springs/better shocks/rear sway bar that doesn't tie the lower arms together, but for now it's working pretty well. The ride is great, it's an awesome cruiser, afraid the stiffer springs will turn it into a racecar that I don't want to drive all the time. The achilles heel at this point is Cooper Zeon RS3A 500 treadwear tires. Nitto NT555 are in my future.

https://youtu.be/ered7AeIQUI

lanyard on keys / crap on mirror show you how it handles
https://youtu.be/9TIiIjNOkxM



This was stock suspension with poly bushings at 2019 Summit Autorama in Atlanta, GA. UMI Suspension was out there taking pics, they sent me this, said they wanted to use it in a meme. You can see how bad the positive camber is stock. When I got home I had rub marks on the front wheel well outer lips where the tire was cambering into them..

[pitts64]

Wow I feel like my SPC arms are worth more now because they have the Howe ball joints which seem to be unobtainable.. A couple of people tried getting those ball joint from Howe but no good. Mark owns those and the only way to get them is through SC&C...

Those arms are sweet, my 69 handles like its glued to the street and that's with 225/70r15 Cooper Cobras.. I am going to try 255/60r15 Mastercraft tires (same as Cooper Cobras and Mickey Thompson).. I feel it's the heavy duty frame that comes with the 68-72 el Camino (and the 69-72 Grand Prix) and the Howe ball joints. The steering is super smooth, the bounce back is real solid and just as fast as a manual box. I have the Lee 14:1 box with a 20 pound valve and a 13" Grant steering wheel. I really love the feel/handling of this car!!!

[chevelletiger]

Have you not read some of the most recent reports if his dealings . For those reasons yes ... previous to he would be the very first person id recommend a A body person to deal with . Why am i wrong with these thoughts ? Or opinion ?

It's called joking,ive read all about what's been happening ect.

Btw tony didn't come up with those geometry changes on his lca,he had Aaron oberlin, I think that's his name use an spc lower and made jigs off of it,straight from what tony said to me over the phone,as for the use of those upper adjustable arms mark started that before tony,and he takes alot of credit for it.

That's just from the conversation I had with him.
I just see credit where credit is due.
...mark doesnt have good credit anymore!

[chevelletiger]

Wow I feel like my SPC arms are worth more now because they have the Howe ball joints which seem to be unobtainable.. A couple of people tried getting those ball joint from Howe but no good. Mark owns those and the only way to get them is through SC&C...



Those arms are sweet, my 69 handles like its glued to the street and that's with 225/70r15 Cooper Cobras.. I am going to try 255/60r15 Mastercraft tires (same as Cooper Cobras and Mickey Thompson).. I feel it's the heavy duty frame that comes with the 68-72 el Camino (and the 69-72 Grand Prix) and the Howe ball joints. The steering is super smooth, the bounce back is real solid and just as fast as a manual box. I have the Lee 14:1 box with a 20 pound valve and a 13" Grant steering wheel. I really love the feel/handling of this car!!!

Pretty sure with all that's going on with mark,they'll start selling them to the public

[Hotwire]

It's called joking,ive read all about what's been happening ect.

Btw tony didn't come up with those geometry changes on his lca,he had Aaron oberlin, I think that's his name use an spc lower and made jigs off of it,straight from what tony said to me over the phone,as for the use of those upper adjustable arms mark started that before tony,and he takes alot of credit for it.

That's just from the conversation I had with him.
I just see credit where credit is due.
...mark doesnt have good credit anymore!

Aaron Oberle. Great dude, got a ride in his 65 and I haven't been the same since. Doubt I'll ever get a car or my courage to his level. He used an ABC frame boxing setup then did most of his suspension engineering himself. He just went back to CNC machining, has his own machine. Can't wait to see what he does for the a-body crowd.

Smile says it all, his car felt like a vault on wheels, my turd feels like you're sitting on a box full of snakes after riding with him.

[raustinss]

It's called joking,ive read all about what's been happening ect.

Btw tony didn't come up with those geometry changes on his lca,he had Aaron oberlin, I think that's his name use an spc lower and made jigs off of it,straight from what tony said to me over the phone,as for the use of those upper adjustable arms mark started that before tony,and he takes alot of credit for it.

That's just from the conversation I had with him.
I just see credit where credit is due.
...mark doesnt have good credit anymore!

Sorry i thoight you were being serious lol
As for the factual aspects of tony developing his own stuff i dont know , only been to his house once and we spent more time discussing his career with gm , the very hush hush c 8 development (3 yrs ago) and his cambered rear end . So ill bow out and take your word for it lol .. cheers

[andrewb70]

Aaron Oberle. Great dude, got a ride in his 65 and I haven't been the same since. Doubt I'll ever get a car or my courage to his level. He used an ABC frame boxing setup then did most of his suspension engineering himself. He just went back to CNC machining, has his own machine. Can't wait to see what he does for the a-body crowd.

Smile says it all, his car felt like a vault on wheels, my turd feels like you're sitting on a box full of snakes after riding with him.

I tuned Aaron's Chevelle. Great customer!

Andrew