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    Results 1 to 7 of 7
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Posts
      218

      Newbie suspension advice

      I have run into an issue on Isaacs truck build. Ill try and keep it short, but Im not sure what direction to head.

      I am building my sons 67 dodge d100. To make a long story short, it was his first vehicle, he got sick and passed away and asked us to finish it. We had many conversations before he got sick about the direction he wanted to go with the truck. He was obsessed with the Dodge challenger hellcat, and wanted to buy a pops and cleveland crate and transfer all of it over. Ambitious for sure, but I cant pull that off. Im talking the Uconnect, the traction control, the ABS...everything.

      Anyway, I bought an IFS and have installed it on the truck. It turns out, this is a Helix kit, from...Chi..na. So, we spent some time adding braces in a few spots, and trying to fix it. Here is where the problems come in.

      Problem #1- The upper A-arms are too short to eliminate the camber. Im going to add a larger DOM bar over the existing, and weld in a bung that accepts the upper joints, which will extend the a-arm about 1". It wont change the geometry. Not a huge deal. It will also allow me a chance to add some more gussets to the a-arm.

      Problem #2- The tie rod ends are to short to eliminate the tow in. Again, we will fabricate some rod ends using DOM tubing and a weld in bung. Easy, but annoying.

      Problem #3- In order to make the truck a tribute to Isaac, it really needs Hellcat wheels. This poses a big problem. After taking some measurements, and checking the offset, and clearance, I would need to widen the front suspension by about 4" give or take. To add to that, the front spindles interfere with modern wheels, where the outside wheel bearing protrudes through the wheel. Most modern cars have hubs. I am running a 1-1/2" spacer up front now, on a 8.5"wide wheel from a Charger. The Hellcat wheels will be a full inch wider, and that will be in positive offset.

      So for the technical stuff. I am running factory 8-1/2" by 20" charger wheels that have a 24mm offset, I have 5-3/4" backspacing to the outside of the tire. I currently run (against my best judgment) 1-1/2" spacers, which would make my effective backspacing about 4-1/4". The hellcat uses 9-1/2" front tires, with an 18.5mm offset (4-1/2" BS). I want to get rid of the spacers, because, well spacers suck...So I need to make up somewhere in the neighborhood of about 2" per side, for a total front track width increase of 4".

      This is where I dont know what to do. Should I get custom a-arms that are 2" wider (this wont fix the spindle issue)? Should I cut and splice the forward crossmember (this wont fix the spindle issue or the a-arm being too short)? I know the "best" option is to cut it out and start over. Im really not wanting to do that. And if we give up on the hellcat wheels, I will have to get custom made negative offset wheels. Those are about $1k each.

      CLIFF NOTES*



      I installed an IFS (properly) and its going to be too narrow to run the wheels I want (need) to run. I need a solution for this that also fixes a few other issues, but avoids the complete removal of the IFS we have. Options seem to be custom IFS for $5k. Custom wheels for about $4k. Or custom parts which might not work. Help please. Pictures follow.
      Attached Images Attached Images        


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      Chicago burbs
      Posts
      247
      Country Flag: United States
      Looks to me like you can burn in a good weld, and you aint skeerd to bend some metal. It's a lot to digest, but it seems like you can correct the issues with case or three of brews lol. for what it's worth I run 2+ inch adapters on my cutlass for 8 years, including some track days, I don't even think about them. I wish I could afford some nice modular wheels, but for now the adapters help me bolt on C6 Z06 repops which I think look good and are def cheap.

      To me it looks like the solution would be to extend the pickup points of the arms outboard to eliminate the wheel adapters.

      Can you clarify what you mean by "the uppers are to short to eliminate the camber."? I think the uppers should be converted to adjustable, in order to set camber/caster properly. At ride height, they should point down towards the engine by just a few degrees so when the wheel comes up it is already pulling the camber in(negative). (You probly know this)

      I'm having a hard time visualizing the issue with the spindles. A pic or two might help. Is there a more modern spindle you can use that would bolt up and maybe even give some rollcenter benifits without messing up the steering? I only know a bit about A bodies, not sure about the dodge truck stuff, maybe someone here has an idea.
      hope this helps.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      Chicago burbs
      Posts
      247
      Country Flag: United States
      Sorry for the back to back post, but I think I see the issue with the spindle. Do you mean the grease cap protrudes out from the disc/hub combo? Mine did that too, but my adapters were long enough to cover it, plus, mine had a wheel-centric lip machined that fit the C6 rims for a pilot hole. I looked up the Hellcat wheels and it doesn't look like the there is a removable center cap.

      If this is the issue, I see two options.
      1) move A-arms outboard a little + a wheel adapter that just covers the grease cap.
      2) move A arms outboard the whole distance(eliminate adapter), and perhaps convert to a hub? I installed Kore3 hubs onto my stock spindles this past month to get C6 brakes. Tobin is a super nice guy infinitly knowlesgable about brakes, he may know of a solution.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Posts
      218
      Yes. The grease cap protrudes into the wheel, forcing me to run adapters. The wheel almost covers it, but it hits. I could probably get by with smaller spacers, but these were ordered with the old frame so I just kept them. If I machine the wheels to fit over it, they will reduce my turning radius so bad I would hate it. This is one problem.

      The other issue is the upper A-arms are just too short. The ends do not go into the arms far enough. I only have about 10 threads, or about 1/2" that is inside the actual A-arm. I can fix this, and the problem with the steering tie rods being too short. The real issue is the distance from the spindle to the frame is too short to run a Hellcat wheel with a positive 24mm offset. I would have to run 2-1/2" or 3" spacer up front.

      After talking with some friends and my wife, we really think the truck needs to run Hellcat wheels. Its what Isaac would have picked had he been given the choice, and they do look good. So I looked into a solution.

      I found a company that will build custom A-arms. You ship them yours, tell them what you want changed and they make a set for you. Ill have a set made at +2" top and bottom. It will change the shock location or spring rate (Ill be running coil overs), but we should be able to figure that out. As for the spindles, you can also have those made custom. Ill have them made with hubs, instead of spindles. These two things should solve all the problems left with the IFS, except the steering being short, which we will fix before anyway.

      I added more pictures, but Im not sure it will help. You can see the spacers covering the grease cap. This allows me to run my Charger wheels with a positive offset of about 24mm. The Hellcat wheels will be just as bad, but wider, and I want the spacers gone. Also you can see the upper A-arms and the threaded ends. As the truck sits, the wheels are cambered (the wheel is leaned in at the top), and I only have 10 threads to make adjustments with. Im sure this is not enough. The upper mounts were installed as per the instructions.

      Full disclosure: My son-in-law did the welding. I made the cuts and did the math, but he is the welder.
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Oct 2018
      Location
      Phoenix, AZ
      Posts
      584
      Country Flag: United States
      The least amount of work would be longer control arms. You can build in whatever width and geometry changes you want by doing that.
      '95 F-150 track ready street beast
      Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      Chicago burbs
      Posts
      247
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
      The least amount of work would be longer control arms. You can build in whatever width and geometry changes you want by doing that.
      I agree, if you've got a place that can make custom arms and spindles, that seems like the best approach.

      I just went through your link for Isaac's build thread, what a awesome truck. I think those Hellcat wheels are going to look so wicked, totally worth the effort!

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Feb 2019
      Posts
      218
      I think thats my best bet. It will cost about $3k+, but itll fix other issues as well. So that going to be my direction.


      Quote Originally Posted by jetmech442 View Post
      I just went through your link for Isaac's build thread, what a awesome truck. I think those Hellcat wheels are going to look so wicked, totally worth the effort!

      Thank you. I think it will be nice when Im done. We have done a lot of work to get this far. Money is the biggest hurdle; It seems to always have other places it needs to go first.





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