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  1. #1
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    Terminator x universal on Pontiac 461?

    Hi guys! So I知 still building my 461 and tryin to decide which FI I知 gonna go with for it.......I知 ordering my heads and intake for my new motor soon......Shooting for around 650hp...I am currently running a Holley super sniper with only the 4 injectors so I know I will need to at least upgrade to the 8 injectors with the new Holley xflow. I am happy with how the sniper performs in my current 350hp motor but I have been advised on the new motor to step it up to the multiport terminator X. I just wanted to learn the benefits of doing so...I was told it will be a smoother better performing system for my higher hp setup that will see a lot of street driving and once a month track days. Not to mention better clearance for the shaker when I run a nitrous plate. I知 just looking for an education on the difference between the two and how multiport would be a better setup for me...



    Also was wondering about the intake setup for a multiport on a non LS setup....I currently run a northwind and they don稚 offer that with efi bungs but they do sell a Victor which is much higher and might have fitment issues......I just wanted to know if anyone is running the terminator on a non LS setup and how they have it setup and the feedback to decide if I should go this way or just stick with the TBI


  2. #2
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    I'm curious to see how you like it. My mild 468 makes about 500 hp and the guy I had tune my carburetor said that if I ended up going efi down the road I'd be disappointed if I ended up going throttle body type rather than multi port injection.

    What heads are you running? Might want to give Butler a call to see what they have to say about it.
    '72 Lemans
    468 Stroker; Aluminum KRE D-Ports ported by CVMS (10.2 comp); XR288HR Comp Cam; Port Matched Performer RPM; Quick Fuel Carb; Doug Long Tube Headers, 2.5 exhaust with H-pipe and Flowmasters; TH-400 w/11" 2800 stall; 9" Rear w/Eaton TruTrac Diff and 3.50 gears.

  3. #3
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    I’m running Butlers Edlebrock CNC 340cfm heads.....I was told the same exact thing ....But when I spoke to Butler the guy im Working with he thought the new TBI Holley Xflow would be almost just as good......but the MPFI I was told would have better throttle response and be able to run a bigger cam with more street ability....so I’m alittle torn....I also haven’t been able to find much info on people running the terminator x on old iron mostly just LS setups

  4. #4
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    I went Terminator Stealth to replace my AED 4150. I can't see how it could be not as good as the carb, at a minimum. My current combo is at 450HP and my upgraded one later this year will be 600HP, the systems max. I'm running a very modified Torker II intake so I can keep my RA II setup functional for cold air. I'll be swapping my 670 heads for Edelbrocks this summer along with a new cam to match and new hedders.

    I got everything, the 6EFI CD box, the 6EFI coil, the dual sync dizzy, etc. I stayed with the HP ECU and didn't upgrade to the Dominator ECU tho. I start the install in just a couple of weeks. I'll have Westech do the tune.

    If I were 800 or over, I would do the SEFI. I'll never be at that tho, my build is for a well-balanced road racing setup and not drag strip.
    http://www.TheFOAT.com/92GTA
    1969 Pontiac Firebird
    w/BP 461ci stroker kit, 670 heads & XE274H cam. Primer black w/black interior.
    1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2004
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    I've got the Terminator TBI/Holley HP ECU on my 440 now and LOVE it!! 6EFI CD box, coil and dual sync as well with a Rick's Restomod tank and GM fuel module.

    I had a very tricked out Holley 950HP before with all of RobbMc Performance's fuel system, 1/2 sending unit, 1100hp mechanical pump etc. and this Terminator TBI beats it in every aspect hands down!

    I replaced the Northwind with a Tomahawk single plane intake to clear the Formula hood and the TBI is 1/2" shorter than the 4150 was so more room for a taller air cleaner...
    SMSgt Ty Ingle, USAF
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    To answer your questions about the TBI vs MPFI, realize the advantage is centered around the accuracy of fuel delivery per cylinder. With TBI it is acting much like a very accurate carb. It lets each runner suck down what it wants of the air/fuel mix and that works pretty well especially on milder engines. Where the multi-port setup excels is by precisely squirting the fuel down that runner, ideally at the intake valves. This provides a multitude of advantages. So yes, moving to something like the Terminator would be a smart decision.

    I am running a Dominator on a very worked over small block Ford. Luckily I have some great choices for MPFI intakes since my engine is popular. I have Andrew (andrewb70) from here on the forums doing all my remote tuning and it's been amazing. It's too bad that more people don't realize how capable these Holley EFI systems are on engines other than an LS. The only "downside" you could argue is that the non-LS engines aren't quite as plug N play, but it wasn't bad at all to get mine up and running.

    My opinion, if you are willing to spend money on building an engine then be willing to use a nice EFI system that can help that beast run like a new car while being safe on the hardware. You'll wonder how you even debated this question once you do it.
    Last edited by andrewb70; 04-09-2020 at 12:02 PM.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  7. #7
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    That’s exactly why I purposed this question....thank you for the feedback....being you have the small block Ford makes it alittle easier when it comes to the intake setup.....I don’t know if any vendors modify or sell them for a Pontiac.....I do want my engine to run as efficiently as possible because I do drive the car a lot

  8. #8
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    They used to make the Tomahawk with the fuel injector bosses already machined... go on PY and ask if someone has one they are willing to sell. Or ship your intake off and have it machined for about $700.
    SMSgt Ty Ingle, USAF
    "CF71" - Freedom Bird
    Hoodpins.com, Inland Empire Driveline, Billet Accessories Direct, Modo Innovations, AutoRad Radiators, Morris Classic Concepts, Marquez Design, Anvil Auto, Fesler Billet, US Collision (DOOM), AGR Performance, Pro-touringF-body.com, Phoenix Transmission Products, Shiftworks, ACC Carpet, Hedman Hedders, BMR Fabrication, American Autowire, MityMounts, TIN INDIAN Performance, Kauffman Racing Equipment, Pypes, RobbMc Performance, WMC, Holley, NOS, PST

  9. #9
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    Nov 2010
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    orlando fl
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    How does the tomahawk perform? I know butler sells the Victor with efi bungs but I’m not sure I can fit it with my shaker.....I still haven’t seen your car around here in Orlando ....I know it’s a bad time but I’d love to see it one day

  10. #10
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    This is my simple approach. This is not end-all be-all, but my general opinion with traditional V8 engines....

    I would only do TBI on an iron headed Pontiac with a true carb style intake that has a heat crossover. That crossover helps warmup time and fuel vaporization.

    Since your engine lacks a crossover due to the aluminum heads, I would just go straight to port injection.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Body International View Post
    This is my simple approach. This is not end-all be-all, but my general opinion with traditional V8 engines....

    I would only do TBI on an iron headed Pontiac with a true carb style intake that has a heat crossover. That crossover helps warmup time and fuel vaporization.

    Since your engine lacks a crossover due to the aluminum heads, I would just go straight to port injection.
    you got me sold....after some reading I think I have my decision made.....now just to find the intake....and with the intake challenges getting it port matched to the heads ....butler can do this with the Victor I just don稚 know if it値l fit

  12. #12
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    Even if you are using a manual transmission, I would recommend getting the Terminator X Max. It is a little more money, but adds the ability to do DBW and transmission control. While you may not need these features now, it is nice to have them available for future use. Also, if you have a T56, the Terminator X Max has an easy way to wire a VR (2-wire) style VSS through the J4 connector. Having a speed input to the ECU opens up more tuning opportunities, such as turning off the cooling fans above a certain speed and also adding an advanced table to raise target RPM speed based on speed. The latter is great for improving drivability.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow1098Greg View Post
    you got me sold....after some reading I think I have my decision made.....now just to find the intake....and with the intake challenges getting it port matched to the heads ....butler can do this with the Victor I just don稚 know if it値l fit
    As mentioned on my thread where you asked, I would look into the Speedmaster if you want to keep cost down. The other option is the Edelbrock Torker II EFI intake. Both are the low-profile you need.

    Jon

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDFLM View Post
    They used to make the Tomahawk with the fuel injector bosses already machined... go on PY and ask if someone has one they are willing to sell. Or ship your intake off and have it machined for about $700.
    Pretty sure you're meaning the Speedmaster (name changed over the years).

    $132 port fuel injection Pontiac intake brand new on eBay...
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/274264152712

  15. #15
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    I guess my question is with something like that would I lose some power vs a Victor or a northwind ?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow1098Greg View Post
    I guess my question is with something like that would I lose some power vs a Victor or a northwind ?
    On a dry intake (port injection), I wouldn稚 think hard about it. The main thing is port matching and blending the runner to the head as best as you can.

  17. #17
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    Sep 2004
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    I've been running a sequential EFI system on my Pontiac for over 10 years now and have been very happy with it. The only problem I have is that it's all based on the Accell technology which is not supported and so I will one day need to migrate to something else, probably the Holley HP. My E-heads were ported to 310 cfm and the engine made about 560HP with the Edelbrock TII intake. Other specs can be found here: http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com/efi1.php After the dyno, I port matched the TII and the only problem is that the roof height of the runners was not sufficient to get a perfect match. I think they are about 1/16 - 3/32" off, but the floor and sides matched up fine. I did not get have the opportunity to dyno the engine again to see what power the port matching made so I can't help you there, but there must be some Victor versus Torker numbers out there for carbed engines.

    The TII sits about 0.2" higher than stock if I recall correctly and locates and angles the throttle body the same way as the factory did. In other words, the only difference is the added height. With the Victor, you'll not only have height to contend with, but I'm pretty sure the angle and centering will be off as the Victor puts everything square and center.
    1967 Firebird Convert, Fuel Injected 462 ci, TKO 600
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammered View Post
    I've been running a sequential EFI system on my Pontiac for over 10 years now and have been very happy with it. The only problem I have is that it's all based on the Accell technology which is not supported and so I will one day need to migrate to something else, probably the Holley HP. My E-heads were ported to 310 cfm and the engine made about 560HP with the Edelbrock TII intake. Other specs can be found here: http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com/efi1.php After the dyno, I port matched the TII and the only problem is that the roof height of the runners was not sufficient to get a perfect match. I think they are about 1/16 - 3/32" off, but the floor and sides matched up fine. I did not get have the opportunity to dyno the engine again to see what power the port matching made so I can't help you there, but there must be some Victor versus Torker numbers out there for carbed engines.

    The TII sits about 0.2" higher than stock if I recall correctly and locates and angles the throttle body the same way as the factory did. In other words, the only difference is the added height. With the Victor, you'll not only have height to contend with, but I'm pretty sure the angle and centering will be off as the Victor puts everything square and center.
    Great info and thank you! I will definitely look for those carbed comparison articles and videos....I figured there would be an issue with fitment on the Victor... on my current engine I have a northwind with the Holley sniper I did wonder if that would be higher than a Victor or any MP setup since the sniper TBI is larger. Maybe the height on the throttle body would make up the difference .....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow1098Greg View Post
    Great info and thank you! I will definitely look for those carbed comparison articles and videos....I figured there would be an issue with fitment on the Victor... on my current engine I have a northwind with the Holley sniper I did wonder if that would be higher than a Victor or any MP setup since the sniper TBI is larger. Maybe the height on the throttle body would make up the difference .....
    Holley 4150, Holley 4500, and TBI (sniper, FiTech, etc.) are the same height.

    The only throttle bodies which have a lower profile are the efi 4 barrel carb style throttle bodies.

    So many options these days. Heck, you can even bolt on an LS 4-bolt throttle body.
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...8aAjSLEALw_wcB

  20. #20
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    I thought the throttle bodies were smaller on the MPFI setups.....I guess if I got that speedmaster intake I could send it to butler to get it port matched to my heads....just wanting to get max performance from my setup I was wondering if that lower intake would cost me power vs the Victor or a modified northwind

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