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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    I looked into that with my leaf spring plan, but I can't use a GM rear end with chassisworks torque arm
    This just seems like a lot for a car you're mainly wanting to drive on the street. I know you mentioned 15" tires on the street and lowering your car for autocross and road race. Disregard what I mentioned about the bolt-on floater. That won't clear 15" wheels.

    Apologies.



  2. #22
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    Feb 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Body International View Post
    This just seems like a lot for a car you're mainly wanting to drive on the street. I know you mentioned 15" tires on the street and lowering your car for autocross and road race. Disregard what I mentioned about the bolt-on floater. That won't clear 15" wheels.

    Apologies.
    You're not wrong.

    I tell myself I'll take it on the track/autocross as much as I can, but you don't really know that until you're done I guess.

    and my dumb requirements are the limiting factor in all of this really as what I want to do is incredibly unconventional. Still looking at everything and what works best for me. You could also argue the engine I want is a lot of mainly driving on the street, but I still want to do it.

  3. #23
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    Dec 2010
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    Fredericksburg, VA.
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    Just a comment on the 15" wheels you want to run. You will drastically limit the brake rotor size to around 12" max with a 15" wheel. I'm running 14" rotors with 18" wheels and I am locked into no less than 17" wheels. As for a floater rear end that is not a problem with 15" wheels. NASCAR currently runs floater rears with 15" wheels. Again the brakes are the limiting factor. You will need to decide if you want 15" wheels or 12.9" brakes but you cannot run both.
    Steve Hayes
    "Dust Off"
    68 Camaro

    Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you!
    "Jeremy Clarkson"

  4. #24
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    Feb 2020
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    This is the largest brake I can fit on the front of my car
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-10738
    which fits with my rims

    But yes, my dumb plans will make my braking options very limited

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    This is the largest brake I can fit on the front of my car
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-10738
    which fits with my rims

    But yes, my dumb plans will make my braking options very limited
    You can fit a 3rd Gen 89-92 1LE Road Race rotor in 15Ē wheels if you get 90ís B-Body spindles.

    That is probably the cheapest and most cost effective break upgrade out there for a 2nd gen. Look up 1LE upgrade for 2nd gen and youíll see various write-ups.

  6. #26
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    Dec 2010
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    Fredericksburg, VA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    This is the largest brake I can fit on the front of my car
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-10738
    which fits with my rims

    But yes, my dumb plans will make my braking options very limited
    You might consider looking at surplus NASCAR brake setups. They are way overkill in terms of braking power but they also fit inside 15" wheels.
    Steve Hayes
    "Dust Off"
    68 Camaro

    Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you!
    "Jeremy Clarkson"

  7. #27
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    Oct 2004
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    IL/TN
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    "NASCAR" brake will not fit your typical 15" wheel. 15" "Nascar" wheels MUST be used to fit "NASCAR" brakes , they are deep bell wheels, to clear the size brakes they use, they are not simple 15" wheels, you also can't use "NASCAR" brakes without all the correct insularity parts such as spindles, ball joints, tie rods, GN floater.

    I adapted ARCA Super speedway brakes (same as NASCAR) to my T/A over 20 years ago when I worked on those cars, but back then most were off the shelf SL2A calipers bolt on hats and 12.190 rotors easy to make fit but still would not clear a production 15" wheel, I used a set of pre-production Basset deep bell wheels.
    https://www.pro-touringf-body.com "doing what they say can't be done"

  8. #28
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    Orlando, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
    I can only comment on the Torque Arm. With our Kit you can go from a 10 Bolt to a 12 Bolts pretty easily and the Kit is complete Bolt In. To swap to a 9", things change a lot. But a Chevy rear end can be built strong. I had Moser rebuild my 10 Bolt!



    Another vote for the BMR torque arm with Watts link here!! I've had it in my car for over 10 years and love it!
    SMSgt Ty Ingle, USAF
    "CF71" - Freedom Bird
    Hoodpins.com, Inland Empire Driveline, Billet Accessories Direct, Modo Innovations, AutoRad Radiators, Morris Classic Concepts, Marquez Design, Anvil Auto, Fesler Billet, US Collision (DOOM), AGR Performance, Pro-touringF-body.com, Phoenix Transmission Products, Shiftworks, ACC Carpet, Hedman Hedders, BMR Fabrication, American Autowire, MityMounts, TIN INDIAN Performance, Kauffman Racing Equipment, Pypes, RobbMc Performance, WMC, Holley, NOS, PST

  9. #29
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    Feb 2020
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    30
    wouldn't nascar brakes also have to run at very high temperatures to work properly anyways?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Antonio, TEXAS
    Posts
    200
    Has anyone tried speedway motors torque arm kit? Very similar to the speedtech with phb or chassis works without the watts link.

    https://www.speedwaymotors.com/G-Com...it,399543.html
    2000 Pontiac Trans Am, Ls1/t56, SLP lid, LT's, cut-out, Borla cat-back.

    1980 Pontiac Trans Am, soon to get Ls1/t56 transplant.

  11. #31
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    Feb 2020
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    30
    Quote Originally Posted by zamora7 View Post
    Has anyone tried speedway motors torque arm kit? Very similar to the speedtech with phb or chassis works without the watts link.

    https://www.speedwaymotors.com/G-Com...it,399543.html
    If I read that page correctly, it sounds like it comes with an entire rear end as well...it sounds like a good value but what makes this so cheap is the real question

  12. #32
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    Apr 2010
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    San Antonio, TEXAS
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    200
    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    If I read that page correctly, it sounds like it comes with an entire rear end as well...it sounds like a good value but what makes this so cheap is the real question
    Housing minus axles and center section, coil overs also not included. or it could be why are others so expensive?
    2000 Pontiac Trans Am, Ls1/t56, SLP lid, LT's, cut-out, Borla cat-back.

    1980 Pontiac Trans Am, soon to get Ls1/t56 transplant.

  13. #33
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    Feb 2020
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    30
    Quote Originally Posted by zamora7 View Post
    Housing minus axles and center section, coil overs also not included. or it could be why are others so expensive?
    No shocks or housing from Chassisworks sets you back about 4k with a watts link so you're either getting charged for the name, or something is made better. And that doesn't include the subframe connectors you need which are sold separately so thats another grand.

  14. #34
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    Apr 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    So I've done a lot of research on this subject and it feels like every other week I change my mind on what I want to do with the rear end of my car, so I'll lay out my plans.

    Right now I plan to put an lt4 (gen V) engine in the front of my 1975 camaro, modify the subframe with global wests "true" coilover set up, upper and lower arms, front sway bar, put a quicker ratio steering box in the front, rebuild the steering with new parts, 12.9" wilwood brakes (I hope) and viking shocks....basically the global west front catalog.

    I want to autocross my car, I don't know how often I plan on doing it as I have never done it, but it looks really enjoyable so I'd like to do it a lot. But the primary purpose of this car will be to just drive it on the street.

    Now here is where things get controversial and where all my problems arise, on the street I want to use 15" rims with big meaty tires for that old school look at near stock height (probably lowered maybe 1/2 or 1"). When I take it on the road course I plan on putting bigger rims (17 or 18 not sure yet) and lowering the car so it can perform better. In my head that makes sense, but we don't live in a perfect world and has brought up a lot of challenges as you can probably imagine.

    So here is where I stand, the rear suspension has a lot of colorful options for a 2nd gen camaro, you have leafs, torque arm, 4 link, and an IRS. Maybe more that I'm not aware of.


    1. With leaf springs you can get sway bars, traction bars from umi, global west has some special spherical bearing in their cat 5 system, list goes on, lots of options. But my problem with leafs is that you're kind of stuck with what you get, if you're not happy with the height there is very little you can do about it aside from move the shackle that the leaf connects to. Leafs aren't really out of the picture, but the lack of adjustability makes me not really want to go towards it.
    2. Next option is a torque arm, I've seen one from BMR and Chris Alston's Chassisworks but I can't really find anyone using them? maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. Honestly I just want to know if they're good or not as they seem to be my best option for a solid axle type set up, I know they were used in 3rd and 4th gen camaros so I assume they have to be decent, but no one really seems to talk about it. Only "issue" with these set ups is that I can't change what rear end I use (start with my 10 bolt and then upgrade to a ford 9") making point of entry more expensive. Don't get me wrong, it would happen eventually, just means it will take longer for my car to be a roller again.
    3. Next is a 4 link, which DSE and ridetech seem to be the most popular. People seem to talk bad about ridetech, are they actually a poor performer? or is it just bias. I know DSE makes some great products that are "race" proven but my issue with them is that it requires me to completely mutilate the rear of my car, which I really don't want to do. I'm more than capable but it's something I'd like to avoid as much as possible. I know the ridetech 4 link requires you to cut two giant ovals in the rear seat, but thats a much easier pill to swallow than cutting giant holes in your frame rails. I think chassisworks also makes something, but again, don't really see anyone talk about it.
    4. Last one, and the hardest for me to get any info on is IRS. The only two that I could find is art morrison and heidts. I know art morrison is fantastic proven set up, but they have 2 "flaws". First is it requires me to to always use 17" rims (ya I know it's a stupid reason) and the other is it requires me to completely "destroy" the rear end of my car...I don't even know if you can keep the rear seats after the install. It's most certainly way too race car and far beyond what I want this car to be. The other is Heidts, I can find a lot of marketing on it but I can't find anyone using it. It looks nice, some people have commented that the inboard brakes is concerning, and some have said it's "show car" suspension which may be true, it's also expensive so if it's garbage I don't really want it. I have found 2 people putting it in a first gen camaro, one hasn't driven it yet, and the other I can't get hold of to get their opinion so I'm kind of at a loss. The other thing about that system is that it forces my car down 2" and it looks like I have to dump the exhaust right before the dif, which I don't think I want to do. I can probably survive the drop but that kind of circles back to the leaf spring issue where I lack the adjustability that I want.


    So thats where I stand, I have 4 options presented to me, all of which require some sort of compromise, and I have no idea what I should even do. My arbitrary requirements makes this more difficult than it probably needs to be. If I go with option 1-3 I think I want to get a ford 9" full floater axle from moser as from my understanding they're stronger, and safer than my stock GM 10 bolt. Right now I'm leaning more towards the BMR set up. But I also want the heidts system...but heidts is a very expensive solution to something that might not be worth it.

    Anyways, would love everyone's opinions on these various setups, preferably if you have used any of these.
    I have your option 1, ridetech front (control arms and coil overs) and global west springs and delrin bushings in back, with a 10 bolt with tru trac and 30 spline axles. Honestly it drives really nice on street, and would do fine for track use if not trying to win big. It tracks straight when under power or breaking loose, no real axle hop problems. This is with 559 rwhp from an
    LSA.

    All that hat said Iím still interested in learning about torque arms w watt or 4 links just to be cool lol. If I could run a 305 without tubs... even more interested someday.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    So I've done a lot of research on this subject and it feels like every other week I change my mind on what I want to do with the rear end of my car, so I'll lay out my plans.

    Right now I plan to put an lt4 (gen V) engine in the front of my 1975 camaro, modify the subframe with global wests "true" coilover set up, upper and lower arms, front sway bar, put a quicker ratio steering box in the front, rebuild the steering with new parts, 12.9" wilwood brakes (I hope) and viking shocks....basically the global west front catalog.

    I want to autocross my car, I don't know how often I plan on doing it as I have never done it, but it looks really enjoyable so I'd like to do it a lot. But the primary purpose of this car will be to just drive it on the street.

    Now here is where things get controversial and where all my problems arise, on the street I want to use 15" rims with big meaty tires for that old school look at near stock height (probably lowered maybe 1/2 or 1"). When I take it on the road course I plan on putting bigger rims (17 or 18 not sure yet) and lowering the car so it can perform better. In my head that makes sense, but we don't live in a perfect world and has brought up a lot of challenges as you can probably imagine.

    So here is where I stand, the rear suspension has a lot of colorful options for a 2nd gen camaro, you have leafs, torque arm, 4 link, and an IRS. Maybe more that I'm not aware of.


    1. With leaf springs you can get sway bars, traction bars from umi, global west has some special spherical bearing in their cat 5 system, list goes on, lots of options. But my problem with leafs is that you're kind of stuck with what you get, if you're not happy with the height there is very little you can do about it aside from move the shackle that the leaf connects to. Leafs aren't really out of the picture, but the lack of adjustability makes me not really want to go towards it.
    2. Next option is a torque arm, I've seen one from BMR and Chris Alston's Chassisworks but I can't really find anyone using them? maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. Honestly I just want to know if they're good or not as they seem to be my best option for a solid axle type set up, I know they were used in 3rd and 4th gen camaros so I assume they have to be decent, but no one really seems to talk about it. Only "issue" with these set ups is that I can't change what rear end I use (start with my 10 bolt and then upgrade to a ford 9") making point of entry more expensive. Don't get me wrong, it would happen eventually, just means it will take longer for my car to be a roller again.
    3. Next is a 4 link, which DSE and ridetech seem to be the most popular. People seem to talk bad about ridetech, are they actually a poor performer? or is it just bias. I know DSE makes some great products that are "race" proven but my issue with them is that it requires me to completely mutilate the rear of my car, which I really don't want to do. I'm more than capable but it's something I'd like to avoid as much as possible. I know the ridetech 4 link requires you to cut two giant ovals in the rear seat, but thats a much easier pill to swallow than cutting giant holes in your frame rails. I think chassisworks also makes something, but again, don't really see anyone talk about it.
    4. Last one, and the hardest for me to get any info on is IRS. The only two that I could find is art morrison and heidts. I know art morrison is fantastic proven set up, but they have 2 "flaws". First is it requires me to to always use 17" rims (ya I know it's a stupid reason) and the other is it requires me to completely "destroy" the rear end of my car...I don't even know if you can keep the rear seats after the install. It's most certainly way too race car and far beyond what I want this car to be. The other is Heidts, I can find a lot of marketing on it but I can't find anyone using it. It looks nice, some people have commented that the inboard brakes is concerning, and some have said it's "show car" suspension which may be true, it's also expensive so if it's garbage I don't really want it. I have found 2 people putting it in a first gen camaro, one hasn't driven it yet, and the other I can't get hold of to get their opinion so I'm kind of at a loss. The other thing about that system is that it forces my car down 2" and it looks like I have to dump the exhaust right before the dif, which I don't think I want to do. I can probably survive the drop but that kind of circles back to the leaf spring issue where I lack the adjustability that I want.


    So thats where I stand, I have 4 options presented to me, all of which require some sort of compromise, and I have no idea what I should even do. My arbitrary requirements makes this more difficult than it probably needs to be. If I go with option 1-3 I think I want to get a ford 9" full floater axle from moser as from my understanding they're stronger, and safer than my stock GM 10 bolt. Right now I'm leaning more towards the BMR set up. But I also want the heidts system...but heidts is a very expensive solution to something that might not be worth it.

    Anyways, would love everyone's opinions on these various setups, preferably if you have used any of these.
    I have your option 1, ridetech front (control arms and coil overs) and global west springs and delrin bushings in back, with a 10 bolt with tru trac and 30 spline axles. Honestly it drives really nice on street, and would do fine for track use if not trying to win big. It tracks straight when under power or breaking loose, no real axle hop problems. This is with 559 rwhp from an
    LSA.

    All that hat said Iím still interested in learning about torque arms w watt or 4 links just to be cool lol. If I could run a 305 without tubs... even more interested someday.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    30
    I flipped my car over on Sunday and I ended up buying the torque arm from chassisworks. Price was very comparable to a DSE 4 link. I was very close to going with speedtech, but I didn't like how I couldn't use subframe connectors (that dind't require me to cut into my car)
    I was very close in getting leaf springs yesterday, I know they're not bad......but I would have had "what if" in the back of my mind the entire time (and to be fair, I still might)

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    I should probably start a build thread on this site like I do on nastyz28

    The rear suspension is probably the most research I have done on this car, every option has it's pros and cons. I picked the torque arm as it seemed like the best solution that doesn't require me to cut into my car (aside from a well set up leaf spring set up)
    Something I almost did was get a ford 9" with leafs, and then get the torque arm later, but I didn't do that because I viewed it as "wasting money" on leaf springs. I'm aware some people might not agree with this but...it's my car, my money so who cares.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Island Lake, IL
    Posts
    755
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    I wouldn’t view as waste. You’re ahead of most people by simply buying that setup. I’m all for people doing $10k-$20k wheel/brake/suspension packages......but 9/10 people who talk about it can’t afford and/or really don’t need it.

    Keep the forum updated!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wouldnít view as waste. Youíre ahead of most people by simply buying that setup. Iím all for people doing $10k-$20k wheel/brake/suspension packages......but 9/10 people who talk about it canít afford and/or really donít need it.

    Keep the forum updated!

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Central CA USA
    Posts
    6,081
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPG View Post
    wouldn't nascar brakes also have to run at very high temperatures to work properly anyways?
    It all depends on what pads you use. There are Carbon/metal composite pads that work well at lower and high temps. Just not as high a temp as a NASCAR race car.
    67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

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