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    1. #21
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Location
      Sun City West, AZ
      Posts
      672
      Country Flag: United States
      Here's how Mike Maier, Inc. did my door bars when my 6 point was built for my C4 Corvette Autocross car. (Hopefully, the picture is right-side up. I don't have a clue on how to make the picture right side up in this forum. If it isn't right-side up, sorry about that.Name:  20191207_111105.jpg
Views: 2048
Size:  284.3 KB
      --
      Kenny Mitchell
      [email protected]

    2. #22
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
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      3,280
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-It View Post
      In all honesty these cars aren't safe to drive on the street with or without a roll cage. I have kids and wouldn't think to put one of them in an old muscle car. The safety crash protection doesn't exist with an old muscle car.

      The picture below is of a 67 camaro that was said to be hit by an older Toyota at about 35 miles an hour. The toyota had damage but look at the camaro......



      https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U
      Its very hard for me to believe that was only 35mph. I agree, these cars are not daily drivers...Too many stupid drivers out there no matter how safe of a driver you are.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      475
      When I designed the cage in my Bug, I knew before hand I was going to drive it on the streets without a helmet. Due to that, I put the bars in spots where there is no way my head could ever hit them. My neck would have to break to hit a bar and even at that, it would be difficult. I am going to say the closest bar to my head is 6" away and thats the B-pillar bar which is behind the seat. The only bar that would ever get me is the door bar and even at that, its just an arm or a leg that would hit it. The downside to my cage, it wont ever be SCCA compliant.

      Name:  20190224_140552 (2).jpg
Views: 1305
Size:  194.2 KB
      1970 VW Bug - Just your average mid engine Bug
      Track toy - 06 Evo - E85 and lots of boost
      Newest track toy - 2021 Supra

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      Posts
      1,414
      Country Flag: United States
      The 6 point definitely helped tie my Mustang together and I felt safer for sure. I'll be putting our Tiger Cage in my Firebird in a few weeks, however, the harness bar won't be bolted in unless it's out on an autocross and coming out as soon as I get home. I'll have my kids cruising around with me quite a bit and not taking any sort of chances there.


      Ridetech Suspsension
      Tech Specialist
      Phone: 812.481.4734

      Project Fox
      1979 Trans Am

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Ventura County CA
      Posts
      556
      Country Flag: United States
      If you look at the design of modern vehicles, they all have an integrated safety cage. It's not made from bent round tubing, but it's integrated into the structure of the dash, a pillars, b pillars, sills, door bars, etc. The challenge with putting a cage into an older car is that it starts to occupy space closer to the driver, eliminating a portion of their safety space and increasing the risk of contact. It doesn't help that these cars typically have lower roof lines where your head is already close to the roof.

      How much space you lose due to the cage has to be weighed against how well the cage keeps the car from crushing in the wrong places. In a rollover, the cabin areas of these cars crush like pancakes due to thin, single wall A and B pillars (many cars don't even have a b-pilar). In a side impact, the lack of doorbars or reinforced rocker sills means lots of intrusion as seen in the Camaro image above. With frontal impacts, a cage with A pillars may keep the firewall space from coming back into the cab, but like with modern NASCAR cages, the nose section of the car should emphasis energy absorption, not rigidity.

      Personally I think the benefits overall for a well constructed, tightly-fitted or integrated cage may outweigh the risks, if the tubing can be routed away from the head and the occupants are belted with at least 3 pt harnesses. The best scenario, in my opinion, would be to integrate the cage into the structure of the car rather than have it sit inside the existing structure. This would maximize the space inside while also connecting everything structurally. I've been study photos of wrecked muscle cars to get a sense of where the safety space is encroached and how things move in an accident. You can find lots of examples if you follow the Instagram accounts @crashedclassics and @wrecked_musclecars.

      From what I've seen, the highest risk situation is a side-impact collision. I've been thinking carefully about reinforcing the interior of my doors, quarter panels, and sills with modern-style door tubes and creating some lateral structure in the car as well, but ultimately a cage-like structure may be the answer.

      That's just my opinion.
      Clint - '70 Nova "restomod" cruiser & autocross family car

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Chandler, Az (from west NE)
      Posts
      240
      Country Flag: United States

      Roll cage in a street car

      I put a 4 pt bar in my 1966 Malibu in 1971 and changed it to a 12 pt cage a couple years later. Admittedly, the back seat is useless, with down bars to the rear suspension pickups, X-brace to the coilover mounts and bars back to the rear of the trunk. With race seats mounted low, I don't think I'd ever have a problem hitting my head on the main hoop or upper side bar as the driver compartment is rather large and the cage fits fairly snugly to the body. It's made of 1.75"x.125" certified aircraft seamless tubing, not DOM, which was fairly easy to acquire at the time. It surpasses most sanctioning body requirements I've found for the weight of the car- 2975#. I do have every part of the cage I can touch padded with SFI padding, JIC. The car was drag raced for a few decades as well as street driven on weekends I wasn't racing. It's slightly inconvenient to enter and exit, but the race seats are what make it harder as they sit low and wrap tighter to you. It was a custom install and that's probably the reason for the extra room. I'd never put a production set-up in a street driven car as they fit pretty tight to the driver, not the car. I used to drive 110 miles to college as fast as I could across prairies highways in western Nebraska every weekend and I have to say the car was extremely more stable after adding the cage. Now that I'm converting the rear suspension to a 3-link for track use, it should really help, too. If you want to wear harness for AutoX or track days, I'd say a 6-pt would be a very good addition. Just make sure the main hoop is as far away from your head as rules allow, then pad it. If just using it for harness attachment, bent rear braces and a removeable harness bar should allow you to utilize the rear seat on the street. JMO.
      BTW, In 1971, my best friend and I rolled his 1969 GT-500 Shelby onto it's top when he missed a gravel road turn and the single hoop harness bar save both our necks( we were wearing 4-pt belts) and I'd say the car, too.
      Ric

      2002 s10, DD and AutoX.
      1966 Malibu owned since 1971. Drag car converting to track toy!

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Austin Texas
      Posts
      641
      Is it possible to put a 6 point cage in a first gen camaro and keep the bars high enough for kids in the back seat to be safe? Or is there just not enough room for that even to be a posibility?

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southern IN
      Posts
      144
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by cwylie View Post
      Is it possible to put a 6 point cage in a first gen camaro and keep the bars high enough for kids in the back seat to be safe? Or is there just not enough room for that even to be a posibility?
      I put DSE’s 4 point roll bar in my 68 Camaro (posted a few pics on your other thread) and all the while had expectations of my boys riding in the back seat. The way DSE’s down bars are made, there’s no way I’d trust kids riding in the back, not at any age. Some mfg’s have designed their down bars to go back, then down which would be an improvement but only slightly. There’s just no room for their heads and certainly no room for their bodies behind the crossbar. I even installed 4-point harnesses back there in hopes of making it safe(er) but it’s just too tight for my liking. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but just giving you my honest opinion. I will say the car feels stiffer with the cage for sure so you’ll just have to weigh out the advantages. Not being able to go anywhere with all four of us in one vehicle is what motivated me to build the 67 Nova I’m doing currently and it won’t have a cage. Here’s a shot of the back seat/cross bar for reference.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Shane
      #theanchorholds
      68 Camaro build thread:
      http://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56387

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Sep 2005
      Posts
      49,371
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by John McIntire View Post

      I had a 6 point in my Chevelle and I really only did it for the "cool factor." That was almost 15 years ago, and I remembered hating climbing over the door bar to get in!
      I've got a 8 Point with Door Bars in my Street/Track car. The Door Bars are a Pain in the Butt for a Guy that has got some years on him and a Knee Replacement. The Bars are Welded in

    10. #30
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
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      A vehicle with a cage is not a family car...its a race car.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      4,699
      Country Flag: United States
      Im thinking ridetech tigercage casue it will still allow driver and paaenger seat access and it allows a harness to easily be installed. If you dont need NHRA cert they are salty but Bret developed an awesome piece and it helps rigidity and harness placement. and no halo bar to bang head.
      Now my monza will most likely become 2 seater and my roll cage tucked, hidden and actually welded into the carbody but time, funds and plans may change
      Lee Abel
      AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

      1977 Chevy Monza 2+2:Project "Cheap Trick"
      1978 C10 Long bed , On air and trailer puller
      2006 Buell Blast ,Just a bike to ride and for mileage
      1966 Caprice 4dr Sports Roof fact.327/now 350/SOON 454???? Project "II Old,,,ZERO BUDGET OR LESS CAPRICE!"

    12. #32
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
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      Quote Originally Posted by MonzaRacer View Post
      Im thinking ridetech tigercage casue it will still allow driver and paaenger seat access and it allows a harness to easily be installed. If you dont need NHRA cert they are salty but Bret developed an awesome piece and it helps rigidity and harness placement. and no halo bar to bang head.
      Now my monza will most likely become 2 seater and my roll cage tucked, hidden and actually welded into the carbody but time, funds and plans may change
      I have mixed feelings on a erector set roll cage...especially one that cost a ridiculous amount of money. Either you need a cage or you don't...I don't think there is a in-between.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    13. #33
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      South Lyon, MI
      Posts
      1,217
      Country Flag: United States
      My son and I participate in the Sandhills Open Road Challenge. The class we run in requires a 4-point rollbar minimum. I bought a JD Squared tube bender and made one for my son’s HHR SS and another for my Saturn ion Redline.

      I am not a fan of the erector set rollbars or cages. If you have a common body style there are some good bolt-in options. But I am quite happy with the rollbars we built.

      I made them bolt-in so we can remove them if we wanted. But i welded heavy supports into the unibody so they wouldn’t punch through in case of an incident.

    14. #34
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Posts
      249
      Country Flag: United States
      Has anyone been in an accident with a Tiger cage?

      Any pics?

      Thank you

    15. #35
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Jacksonville, Fl
      Posts
      12
      Until you hit a wall.....in a racecar.....at speed.....fully strapped in.....you have no idea how far your neck will stretch. I would never have a cage in my street car.

    16. #36
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      South Lyon, MI
      Posts
      1,217
      Country Flag: United States
      Name:  FB_IMG_1586310887670_Original.jpg
Views: 705
Size:  130.5 KBThis is why we have rollbars in our cars built to meet sanctioning body requirements. We almost lost it on the same corner at a similar speed (just over 100 mph). I have no regrets.

    17. #37
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
      Until you hit a wall.....in a racecar.....at speed.....fully strapped in.....you have no idea how far your neck will stretch. I would never have a cage in my street car.
      I think there is a huge spectrum of race cars to street cars. If you are driving at speeds enough to seriously roll or hit a wall, you need maximum safety. How does that differ from a street car? Its much more dangerous...a head on with another vehicle or a T-bone is extremely more dangerous. I don't see any issue with a roll bar in a street car....a cage is a totally different scenario. A Halo could be dangerous without a helmet.

      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371


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