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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Sun City West, AZ
    Posts
    662
    Country Flag: United States
    Here's how Mike Maier, Inc. did my door bars when my 6 point was built for my C4 Corvette Autocross car. (Hopefully, the picture is right-side up. I don't have a clue on how to make the picture right side up in this forum. If it isn't right-side up, sorry about that.Name:  20191207_111105.jpg
Views: 246
Size:  284.3 KB
    --
    Kenny Mitchell
    [email protected]

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Deployed
    Posts
    3,129
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-It View Post
    In all honesty these cars aren't safe to drive on the street with or without a roll cage. I have kids and wouldn't think to put one of them in an old muscle car. The safety crash protection doesn't exist with an old muscle car.

    The picture below is of a 67 camaro that was said to be hit by an older Toyota at about 35 miles an hour. The toyota had damage but look at the camaro......



    https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U
    Its very hard for me to believe that was only 35mph. I agree, these cars are not daily drivers...Too many stupid drivers out there no matter how safe of a driver you are.
    1970 Camaro/DSE build


    Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    404
    When I designed the cage in my Bug, I knew before hand I was going to drive it on the streets without a helmet. Due to that, I put the bars in spots where there is no way my head could ever hit them. My neck would have to break to hit a bar and even at that, it would be difficult. I am going to say the closest bar to my head is 6" away and thats the B-pillar bar which is behind the seat. The only bar that would ever get me is the door bar and even at that, its just an arm or a leg that would hit it. The downside to my cage, it wont ever be SCCA compliant.

    Name:  20190224_140552 (2).jpg
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    1970 VW Bug - Just your average mid engine Bug
    @Frankinbeetle on Instagram

    New track toy - 06 Evo - E85 and lots of boost

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,236
    Country Flag: United States
    The 6 point definitely helped tie my Mustang together and I felt safer for sure. I'll be putting our Tiger Cage in my Firebird in a few weeks, however, the harness bar won't be bolted in unless it's out on an autocross and coming out as soon as I get home. I'll have my kids cruising around with me quite a bit and not taking any sort of chances there.


    Ridetech Suspsension
    Tech Specialist
    Phone: 812.481.4734

    Project Fox
    1979 Trans Am

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ventura County CA
    Posts
    380
    If you look at the design of modern vehicles, they all have an integrated safety cage. It's not made from bent round tubing, but it's integrated into the structure of the dash, a pillars, b pillars, sills, door bars, etc. The challenge with putting a cage into an older car is that it starts to occupy space closer to the driver, eliminating a portion of their safety space and increasing the risk of contact. It doesn't help that these cars typically have lower roof lines where your head is already close to the roof.

    How much space you lose due to the cage has to be weighed against how well the cage keeps the car from crushing in the wrong places. In a rollover, the cabin areas of these cars crush like pancakes due to thin, single wall A and B pillars (many cars don't even have a b-pilar). In a side impact, the lack of doorbars or reinforced rocker sills means lots of intrusion as seen in the Camaro image above. With frontal impacts, a cage with A pillars may keep the firewall space from coming back into the cab, but like with modern NASCAR cages, the nose section of the car should emphasis energy absorption, not rigidity.

    Personally I think the benefits overall for a well constructed, tightly-fitted or integrated cage may outweigh the risks, if the tubing can be routed away from the head and the occupants are belted with at least 3 pt harnesses. The best scenario, in my opinion, would be to integrate the cage into the structure of the car rather than have it sit inside the existing structure. This would maximize the space inside while also connecting everything structurally. I've been study photos of wrecked muscle cars to get a sense of where the safety space is encroached and how things move in an accident. You can find lots of examples if you follow the Instagram accounts @crashedclassics and @wrecked_musclecars.

    From what I've seen, the highest risk situation is a side-impact collision. I've been thinking carefully about reinforcing the interior of my doors, quarter panels, and sills with modern-style door tubes and creating some lateral structure in the car as well, but ultimately a cage-like structure may be the answer.

    That's just my opinion.
    Clint - '70 Nova home-built "restomod"

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Az (from west NE)
    Posts
    237
    Country Flag: United States

    Roll cage in a street car

    I put a 4 pt bar in my 1966 Malibu in 1971 and changed it to a 12 pt cage a couple years later. Admittedly, the back seat is useless, with down bars to the rear suspension pickups, X-brace to the coilover mounts and bars back to the rear of the trunk. With race seats mounted low, I don't think I'd ever have a problem hitting my head on the main hoop or upper side bar as the driver compartment is rather large and the cage fits fairly snugly to the body. It's made of 1.75"x.125" certified aircraft seamless tubing, not DOM, which was fairly easy to acquire at the time. It surpasses most sanctioning body requirements I've found for the weight of the car- 2975#. I do have every part of the cage I can touch padded with SFI padding, JIC. The car was drag raced for a few decades as well as street driven on weekends I wasn't racing. It's slightly inconvenient to enter and exit, but the race seats are what make it harder as they sit low and wrap tighter to you. It was a custom install and that's probably the reason for the extra room. I'd never put a production set-up in a street driven car as they fit pretty tight to the driver, not the car. I used to drive 110 miles to college as fast as I could across prairies highways in western Nebraska every weekend and I have to say the car was extremely more stable after adding the cage. Now that I'm converting the rear suspension to a 3-link for track use, it should really help, too. If you want to wear harness for AutoX or track days, I'd say a 6-pt would be a very good addition. Just make sure the main hoop is as far away from your head as rules allow, then pad it. If just using it for harness attachment, bent rear braces and a removeable harness bar should allow you to utilize the rear seat on the street. JMO.
    BTW, In 1971, my best friend and I rolled his 1969 GT-500 Shelby onto it's top when he missed a gravel road turn and the single hoop harness bar save both our necks( we were wearing 4-pt belts) and I'd say the car, too.

    Ric

    2002 s10, DD and AutoX.
    1966 Malibu owned since 1971. Drag car converting to track toy!


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