Rack and Pinion steering on 1st gen Camaro's ?

[minendrews68]

What do most of you think about using rack and pinion steering on first gen Camaro's? I have the factory sub frame and the more I drive my wife's Mustang ('06) I like the way the steering feels. Is it possible to even put a rack and pinion on the first gen subframe?

[ilikeike]

I’ve only heard horror stories of people trying to make racks work good on stock subframes.
Spend money on a quality steering gear. Like Lee, DSE,AGR... way better than the stock slush box.

[minendrews68]

I need to do something... I hate the way my Camaro steers as it is (bone stock) with the exception of disc brakes and completely rebuilt. Oddly enough, I was looking about three posts down and they were talking about a '69 Firebird asking the same question. He too was having problems with header clearance. My box is about 1/4" from the header tube which causes the steering to hang up somewhat after riding for just a few minutes. I figure too close.

[dhutton]

A good 600 steering box will buy you better performance and a little more exhaust clearance because it is smaller. Turn One, DSE, ridetech, Lee all sell them. Way better than a rack conversion.

Don

[David Pozzi]

Yes, get a better box. Your current box is adjustable for lash and that usually helps a lot but a faster ratio box with firm feel valving will feel even better than the Mustang.

[astroracer]

What do most of you think about using rack and pinion steering on first gen Camaro's? I have the factory sub frame and the more I drive my wife's Mustang ('06) I like the way the steering feels. Is it possible to even put a rack and pinion on the first gen subframe?

Carl,
What you have to remember here is your wife's Mustang was DESIGNED around that rack & pinion steering. 1st Gen Camaro's and Firebirds were not. Unless you start with a clean sheet of paper for your front suspension, trying to get a R&P swap to work correctly is nothing but an exercise in frustration. Follow the sage advice already given and put in a newer steering box and enjoy the drive. Or simply swap to a smaller set of pipes...
Mark

[Snowcatter]

Has anyone tried one of the redhead steering gears? I know they make a great improvement in trucks so I assume they would help in this application as well.

[79T/Aman]

As mentioned above you are comparing a car that was designed to use a R&P and all the components that go with it, there is no magic bullet part that will turn a 68 Camaro into a modern Mustang, a good modern box, revised and corrected suspension geometry, more conducive alignment will go a long way to modernizing the feel.

[minendrews68]

Points are all well taken, a good gear box it is! Thanks everyone for your input. Thinking back everything said makes total sense.

[jtkkwag1]

Hello everyone. I ham the other guy who was asking about R&P. Thank you all for your input. Mr, David Pozzi HAS BEEN EXTREMELY HELPFUL AND KIND ENOUGH, to take time to help me through this problem I am having. I am SORRY to ask this question a few times. I NEED SOEMTIME TO SPEAK WITH MY BUILDER/RESTORER AND SHOVE IT INTO HIS HEAD THIS INFORMATION. People out there can restore a lot of cars and I believe they have good knowledge. But I also believe when doing , in particular 69 Firebird because of single year car, they just don't want to listen to a guy who owns one, like me and who is not a builder/restorer like me, they just want to believe that all older cars are pretty much the same and go back together and can have modifications with no problems, other words other cars have done it so can this one. What weird is I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM EVEN 1 YET that say they actually have rack and pinion with stock subframe, now I do have speedtech tubular a-arms. My point I am trying to kindly make here is , than you all, and if know one on this website or team camaro or firebird forums does not have R&P than that means they must not work, or everybody would have them. What weird also is that Classic Industries actually offers one for 67-69 firebirds with stock subframe, by steeroids 80031, but only if they have a chevy motor. Icaramba. Yet nobody has one. I have found, with no disrespect meant whatsoever, that these companies mumble when I call them and ask them about them. Example, with no disrespect meant whatsoever, I mentioned I have speedtech tubular a-arms, very nice and nice fitment. but this is taken directly from their website about their headers for my 69 firebird and others Firebirds and Camaros, first Gen." Small Block Headers for GM Sub Frame 1967-1969
These headers have been designed by Speedtech Performance specifically for '67-69 Camaros and Firebirds using Small Block Based engines in a GM sub frame with a factory style steering box. " Now this is directly from their website, yet when I called them they put me on hold and went to their, Tech, Engineer department " got back on the line and said they will not work with factory steering box, yet they did not change this on their website, WHY? If it don't fir than just tell people that in your listing. WOW. Now I have AGR 292317, $500 box. this is nice steering box and was told this would be as close as you can get to feel like rack and pinion. Any reviews on this box? And also, is there actually a smaller box, I am told not? Thank You all. Jerry

[dhutton]

AGR is a good box. The 600 series boxes from Turn One and others is a little smaller.

Don

[btmatt]

We installed a unisteer rack on 1967 subframe with lots of aftermarket parts. The car is driven ALOT and the steering is sorted well. As others have cautioned, it took a lot of work to sort out, and is not the solution for someone looking to bolt it on and go. There are lots of supporting modifications needed to make it work right including engine and transmission mounts, headers, power steering pump and hoses, oil pan, spindles, etc.

If interested, I will list and post pics. But, as noted above, a steering box upgrade will give similar performance with lots less headaches

[tbarnes3]

Well guy's I don't know your skill level with steering angles and geometry but it's not that difficult to install correctly, we install power rack & pinion systems on stock GM sub frames with very little fabrication to the frame and are able to set these car's up with 0 bump steer and they carve corners in autocross racing as good as a Speedtech or DSE sub frame the only thing those aftermarket sub frames have over a factory sub frame is they can run a wider front tire.

[dhutton]

Well guy's I don't know your skill level with steering angles and geometry but it's not that difficult to install correctly, we install power rack & pinion systems on stock GM sub frames with very little fabrication to the frame and are able to set these car's up with 0 bump steer and they carve corners in autocross racing as good as a Speedtech or DSE sub frame the only thing those aftermarket sub frames have over a factory sub frame is they can run a wider front tire.

Rear steer first gen? Please post some pics.

Don

[tbarnes3]

No we did not like the rear steer systems out there and the bump steer issue was still a problem and building a nice header for the drivers side was not going to happen with a BBC with Big Chief heads so we went to the front of the K member and figured out the Geometry and bump steer for the width of the rack and type of rack also the placement of the rack to obtain a 0 bump steer them we just had to make rack mounts run the steering shaft up and for the steering arms we flip flopped them and had to heat and straighten them to fall where we wanted them to be, drilled out the tapper to a 1/2" hole and used a heim joint for the tie rod end. and since we had to remove the sway bar from its stock location to fit the rack in we built a Splined sway bar system and now its a course carver and when you hit bumps in the road the steering wheel doesn't move.
I will have to look to see if I have any pictures of the finished system but we have done several of these on first gen Camaros and we are not the only ones out there doing them just get the do it attitude and don't be afraid to try it you can do it !

[SPLATT71MC]

Has anyone tried one of the redhead steering gears? I know they make a great improvement in trucks so I assume they would help in this application as well.

I have one on my 71 Monte Carlo and love it. Much better than the factory box.

[CSG]

ZERO bump steer through the shock travel, actually measured?

[z0sicks07]

I beat on this unisteer rack pretty good and I have no complaints. I never had issues with fitment and aftermarket parts but maybe I'm just lucky (or measured)
. With that said...with a car so stock I'd run a tighter ratio box.

[grease]

No we did not like the rear steer systems out there and the bump steer issue was still a problem and building a nice header for the drivers side was not going to happen with a BBC with Big Chief heads so we went to the front of the K member and figured out the Geometry and bump steer for the width of the rack and type of rack also the placement of the rack to obtain a 0 bump steer them we just had to make rack mounts run the steering shaft up and for the steering arms we flip flopped them and had to heat and straighten them to fall where we wanted them to be, drilled out the tapper to a 1/2" hole and used a heim joint for the tie rod end. and since we had to remove the sway bar from its stock location to fit the rack in we built a Splined sway bar system and now its a course carver and when you hit bumps in the road the steering wheel doesn't move.
I will have to look to see if I have any pictures of the finished system but we have done several of these on first gen Camaros and we are not the only ones out there doing them just get the do it attitude and don't be afraid to try it you can do it !

What steering rack did you use?

[tbarnes3]

Sure the parts we used to do the power rack conversion were a T Bird power rack & pinion [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65)]Part # 91035341 It has a perfect Inner Pivot ball to Inner Pivot ball [/COLOR]measurement[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65)]. from Speedway Motors, and we found the Billet steering arms from Smith Race Craft to be a perfect fit. also the Speedway Motors steering shaft kit with 3 U joints and 3/4" round shaft, and 1/2" Heim Joints with a bump steer kit from Speedway Motors with these parts and some general hardware and some Good [/COLOR]Fabrication[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65)] and Welding Skills you to can build this into your 1st Gen Camaro or 68 to 72 Nova. I will take some pictures on the next [/COLOR]Camaro[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65)] we do and post them we have one scheduled for [/COLOR]January[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65)].[/COLOR]