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    Results 21 to 30 of 30
    1. #21
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer View Post
      Wasn't aware of the PermaCool fans so thank you for sharing that info. If I get to that point where I'm considering other fans, they might make decent candidates. I photoshopped my bare shroud with two PermaCool 12" fans just because I have time LOL on my hands and its so easy for me to do.



      I would suspect that if nothing else, the PermaCool frameless design would allow quite a bit more airflow through the shroud at highway speeds. And if these fans actually make 3300 CFM (each) that's probably double (or more) than what my Ford fans will pull together. Have to wonder what two of these puppies sound like at full speed. Depth wise, they would probably fit OK, and I'm not bothered by a frameless design its not much more than a mechanical fan and I wouldn't be sticking my fingers in there while the engine was running.



      The pwm I'm using features a "soft" start and stop so amperage draw isn't that big a concern. But I have yet to see a eFan setup with anything bigger than #8 AWG. Please note, I'm not having any problems getting my fans to run and it looks like they are pulling nicely. My main concern is getting the car to run at/under 195° so the existing dual fans will turn off and let the highway air flow through the condenser/radiator combo. No chance of moving the core support (and AC condenser/radiator) forward without a lot of metalwork.
      Mike fan rpm is proportional to voltage. CFM is proportional to fan rpm. Low voltage will give you lower than specified CFM. Soft start does not reduce the current consumption of the fans at max duty cycle. Measure the voltage and make sure it is correct. This is pretty basic stuff, I don’t understand why you go off on such drastic tangents without even taking the time to make sure your fans are getting adequate voltage….

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    2. #22
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Location
      Western Mass
      Posts
      227
      Country Flag: United States
      Don... I'm in the middle of a few projects around the house and also juggling three car projects but I do intend to follow your suggestion. As soon as I have time (probably Thursday or Friday) I think I'm going to remove the pwm and attach a Female Bullet style lead to the Fan Positive Post so I can safely get a meter probe in there and measure voltage when the car is warmed up and fans are supposedly spinning at full rpm. I mounted the controller on the inner fender well at an angle and I don't want to risk shorting out the PWM because of the close quarters.



      The picture above shows what I'm dealing with. The quick disconnect plugs for the fan are kinda down near the side of the radiator almost under the battery tray, so getting my hands down there to unplug while its hot and running isn't going to happen.

      I also realized something else looking at it today. The power lead to the PWM is a #10 AWG not an #8 AWG. When I told him that I had #8 AWG on the positive wires to the fans, Carl had told me that a #10 AWG was all that was needed for the power source. Don't know if this affects anything, but when I get it off, I can make up an #8 AWG lead to the 12v+ unless you or somebody tells me its not important.

      '69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, Massaged .030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed,
      Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition, CompCams Xtreme Energy XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads


    3. #23
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      By
      Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer View Post
      Don... I'm in the middle of a few projects around the house and also juggling three car projects but I do intend to follow your suggestion. As soon as I have time (probably Thursday or Friday) I think I'm going to remove the pwm and attach a Female Bullet style lead to the Fan Positive Post so I can safely get a meter probe in there and measure voltage when the car is warmed up and fans are supposedly spinning at full rpm. I mounted the controller on the inner fender well at an angle and I don't want to risk shorting out the PWM because of the close quarters.



      The picture above shows what I'm dealing with. The quick disconnect plugs for the fan are kinda down near the side of the radiator almost under the battery tray, so getting my hands down there to unplug while its hot and running isn't going to happen.

      I also realized something else looking at it today. The power lead to the PWM is a #10 AWG not an #8 AWG. When I told him that I had #8 AWG on the positive wires to the fans, Carl had told me that a #10 AWG was all that was needed for the power source. Don't know if this affects anything, but when I get it off, I can make up an #8 AWG lead to the 12v+ unless you or somebody tells me its not important.

      Mike you need to measure the voltage using both the positive and negative connections on the controller since you will see the same voltage drop on both of those 10 wires

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Location
      Western Mass
      Posts
      227
      Country Flag: United States
      Don... If I can get to it tomorrow (I have contractors in the house) this is what I was thinking to test the voltage.

      Name:  <span style='whitespace: nowrap'><a href='https://www.vaporworx.com/shop/products/pwm-kits/' onclick=pwm-TestLeads-01Sz.jpg Views: 487 Size: 538.3 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

      So two short leads with bullet connectors so I can stick voltage meter probes in there without risking a short. Will this work OK? I confess to not being an EE or anything resembling one LOL, so I'll plug the two voltmeter leads into the bullet connectors and see what the voltage looks like on the meter. I can do this after the car has warmed up and the fans are running and I should be seeing 13.5 volts, right? The wiring from the PWM posts to the fans is doubled in a single ring terminal for both positive and negative.

      BTW, you had asked about the alternator. Its a PowerMaster Model 67293, Idle output @2400 Dyno RPM 91 Amps, Highway output 7500 Dyno RPM 152 Amps. Factory set voltage was certified at 14.8 VDC. As far as alternator speed in the car, I have no clue. Its internally regulated and its set up with the 3-wire arrangement. The diagram below pretty much sums up the way everything is wired.

      '69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, Massaged .030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed,
      Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition, CompCams Xtreme Energy XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads


    5. #25
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      That will work Mike.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      I've never seen anything that had a smaller ground than positive, and the power throughput is going to be limited by the smallest wire. I'd at least size-match the grounds to the positive wires.

      The Perma-cools can be pretty loud running flat-out. Not, however, as loud as a mechanical fan when the clutch temp-locks.

      While the Perma-cools don't come with a frame, don't try running without installing one on each fan. Without the frame you won't get the full draw of air, not to mention the fact that the blades are made of aluminum, spinning a few thousand times per minute.
      2021 Durango R/T
      2005 Dakota beater
      2003 Dakota project-o-mobile

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Location
      Western Mass
      Posts
      227
      Country Flag: United States
      Hey Don... sorry this took so long but between weather and other stuff, I just couldn't break away to mess with the car until a couple days ago. So I made up the leads per my previous post, and the setup looks like this:

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      I took the car out for a drive late afternoon on Wednesday. Air temp was about 55° so its no longer summer. With the cooler weather it took a bit longer to warm up to the point where the fans switched on. I have a LED on my dash to indicate when the fans come on. Stuck to back roads where I could get a good sample of maybe a mile or two at 45-50 MPH, and also some stop sign areas so it would heat up by not moving. When I was driving at 40 mph, temp would drop down like it should... eventually hit 195° and fans went off... went down to 185° and pretty much hovered between 180°-185° as long as I kept moving at 40-45. As you might recall, the grill is out because its at the paint shop so nothings stopping/blocking airflow. As soon as I hit a few stop streets the temp started climbing and the fans came back on, and when I started moving at 40 MPH they went off again, so the pwm is working just fine. Getting back to the house took me on some slower streets and I took my time, made sure that it was back at 220° as I pulled into the driveway. Left it running, popped the hood and put the meter leads into the test wires. Voltage seemed to be jumping around but the highest I saw was 11.45v and both fans were spinning. Just to check, I put the leads on the terminals and it showed 13.3v so there was a difference. So your suggestion to check the voltage at the PWM Fan + post was a good one! Thanks!

      Carl had told me that it wasn't absolutely necessary to run power from the battery terminal, running it from the always hot Junction Block should be OK. That wire is a #10 AWG so I'm making up a new #8 AWG wire and will run it directly into the positive terminal where I have an empty "port" (see 2nd pix below).

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      Since the weather has turned nasty again, I'm gonna pull the fans/shroud out and do some tweaking. When I laid out the design for the BeCool flaps, I put a divider in the middle to make sure the fans couldn't suck the flaps back thru the opening. I'm gonna cut those dividers out, and maybe open up the actual hole 1/8" all around to perhaps allow a little more air to flow thru the flaps when the fans aren't running. I can always weld in a aluminum rod if I see the flaps are getting stuck. The good news seems to be that the airflow at 40 MPH with no fans is adequate, and the bad news is at 30 MPH its not. Once I get the new #8 AWG wire set in place I'll take another test ride and see if the voltage at the fan + post on the PWM is higher than 11.45v.

      Mike
      '69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, Massaged .030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed,
      Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition, CompCams Xtreme Energy XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads


    8. #28
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      Hi Mike. You should beef up the ground wire too since it carries the same current.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Location
      Western Mass
      Posts
      227
      Country Flag: United States
      OK... that's easy. Should I ground to the battery or the chassis ground?
      '69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, Massaged .030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed,
      Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition, CompCams Xtreme Energy XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads


    10. #30
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      Either one should be fine but back to the battery is guaranteed.



      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside


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