1968 Camaro: Help with Suspension Setup

[eville]

It’s not broken messed up it’s that the handling will be bad with the drop spindles and fall joints. Eventually you need to put stock spindles on. If the wheels are contacting the tie rod ends don’t drive the car until fixed.

[majj35]

It’s not broken messed up it’s that the handling will be bad with the drop spindles and fall joints. Eventually you need to put stock spindles on. If the wheels are contacting the tie rod ends don’t drive the car until fixed.

I see. Is there a way to find out if the wheels are contacting the rods?? I don’t hear any noise or grinding while driving

[dhutton]

I see. Is there a way to find out if the wheels are contacting the rods?? I don’t hear any noise or grinding while driving

Turn the wheels all the way and watch to see if the tie rods hit the wheels. The car doesn’t need to be moving.

Don

[CarlC]

I see. Is there a way to find out if the wheels are contacting the rods?? I don’t hear any noise or grinding while driving

Remove the wheel and observe the area inside the wheel where the tie rod end occupies. There should be witness marks on the wheel.

Ride Tech put a bunch of time, effort, and investment into making their streetgrip system work. It has proven itself successful in many competitive arenas. Trying to re-engineer and/or throw a bunch of other parts, hence upsetting a winning combination of parts, is just upsetting a working combination.

By trying to use a spacer to increase ride height + the incorrect spindle = recipe for poor / unsafe / not enjoyable handling. As mentioned above, installing a stock spindle will cure most all of the issues.

The brakes are another story, but the tradeoff to keep what you have + poor handling or a simple brake brake change is a pretty easy choice. Get the brakes that fit the spindle/wheel package. MCB or Kore3 are both good at figuring that out.

There are also several schools of thought on ride height. Most of what has been discussed here is appearance. Getting the right ride height is important for the Pro-Touring look, but typically setting the ride height for what works best is a different measure (pun intended.) The distance to the fender is one thing, suspension geometry and what works best is referenced to the frame.

For 1st Gen Camaros and many other GM platforms, for good street and track performance a good rule of thumb to work from is this: Set the ride height so that the center of the front lower A-Arm bolt is 1/2" higher than the center of the sphere in the lower ball joint when both are measured from the flat plane of the earth.

The above allows for additional beneficial camber on initial compression and balances camber changes over the majority of where the suspension travels. When the ride height is set very low where the center of the lower ball joint sphere is higher than the center of the front A-arm bolt, many other unsettling suspension geometry changes occur, often leading to not-so-fun handling difficulties such as darting under braking. Once the suspension compresses so it rides on the bumpstops, effectively increasing the suspension spring rate many dozens of times, the handling is a mess and dangerous.

So, even though the car may look really cool slammed to the ground, from a practical standpoint street driven cars need to have a ride height that allows for sufficient suspension travel. I've found that sticking to the 1/2" rule in the front, then having the rear 1/2" higher in the back, works quite well in most any circumstance.

[dhutton]

Perfect. Listen to Carl. He’s someone you can trust.

Don

[Aussie]

Perfect. Listen to Carl. He’s someone you can trust.

Don

Exactly

I think you are getting very good advice now. Go back to stock spindles and move forward from there. I would advise to use the factory "short" steering arms.

I'm sure you can get in to a relatively cost effective brake solution.

Good luck

I am really impressed with the streetgrip on my 1972 C10

[majj35]

Thanks guys , appreciate the feedback and that;s why i come here. I'll take a look at my rods again, last I checked it doesnt hit the wheel. oh well I'll gather some funds and do an 11" front brake upgrade with stock spindle and control arms.

Would it be ok to just get front brakes for now? keep the rears as is? Only street driven

[eville]

Think about a C5 upgrade from kore3.
Or junkyard.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...p-on-68-Camaro

[majj35]

Think about a C5 upgrade from kore3.
Or junkyard.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...p-on-68-Camaro

Ill check that out. MCB gave me a good quote on front brakes , spindles & arms...but the shipping will be $$$ so ill see how that goes

[CarlC]

Due to his location a junkyard option is likely not happening.

Doing just a front brake change may again result in something that is not well balanced. Like the suspension, brakes must be considered as a system. If the front brakes are not well matched to those on the rear of the car and to the master cylinder, it can make the car downright dangerous to drive. Who knows if what you have now is right?

This again is where consulting with experts in their respective fields is very helpful. I can't tell you how many hair-brain'd ideas I've run by Tobin at Kore3, but he has always given me advise that in the end, worked. That to me is the single most important part of a relationship with a vendor.

A starting point using mostly OEM type components (again, a must for me due to the way the car is used/parts availability): If the car is primarily a cruiser then something with a 12" front rotor and a C5/6 caliper along with the smaller C6 rear may work well. However, it's not something to simply guess at.

Now toss in that the car is overseas and most mechanics there are not experts in the field of vintage American cars. Not to be mean or anything like that, but your experience with the streetgrip system is exactly the point. You purchased a nicely engineered system but you and your mechanic, understandably, did not know about the non-stock spindle. Perhaps this is a great learning lesson. Photos of all the components sent to the vendor to confirm what you have would likely have resulted in fewer troubles. This is now the case with the brakes to confirm that the front and rears are going to fit based on consultation of what the car now has.

Find your expert, consult, and buy from them. They earned that consultation fee, and is the best and least expensive money you can spend.

[majj35]

Due to his location a junkyard option is likely not happening.

Doing just a front brake change may again result in something that is not well balanced. Like the suspension, brakes must be considered as a system. If the front brakes are not well matched to those on the rear of the car and to the master cylinder, it can make the car downright dangerous to drive. Who knows if what you have now is right?

This again is where consulting with experts in their respective fields is very helpful. I can't tell you how many hair-brain'd ideas I've run by Tobin at Kore3, but he has always given me advise that in the end, worked. That to me is the single most important part of a relationship with a vendor.

A starting point using mostly OEM type components (again, a must for me due to the way the car is used/parts availability): If the car is primarily a cruiser then something with a 12" front rotor and a C5/6 caliper along with the smaller C6 rear may work well. However, it's not something to simply guess at. Find your expert, consult, and buy from them. They earned that consultation fee, and is the best and least expensive money you can spend.

I totally agree with what you're saying. and again and unfortunately, no experts locally. I did have one good mechanic who did my LS swap..but I kind of lost his "expert" advice after I once suggested coilovers front and back, and he said ok (i don't have a 4 link).. so trust..gone. Right now my only experts are you guys, and I'm so grateful for that. With vendors, I'm relying on MCB, as they have been helping out a lot and have been in contact with me always.

[majj35]

a little humor to lighten up the day..while i cry behind my keyboard lol lol. Wishing you all a happy holiday and happy new year!!

[CarlC]

LOL! Trust me on this. If one has an affliction with cars, they are NEVER EVER DONE!

My wife can fully support that statement. ;-)

[majj35]

LOL! Trust me on this. If one has an affliction with cars, they are NEVER EVER DONE!

My wife can fully support that statement. ;-)

Oh i know. Been working on 2 cars for the past 4-5 yrs lol. Nothing is ever going to be enough to be labeled as “Done” .. boys with their toys

[majj35]

I'll have to measure my brake diameter to see if the stock spindles would fit. Visually (photo), MCB said mine are 10.5", which don't fit stock spindles. Minimum is 11" rotor, from what I've gathered reading other discussions.

Now, I'll ask my newbie questions, and please be patient with me as I'm new to classic parts and putting a lot of time in reading but still have gray areas. Right now my goal is to prepare my car for this season, good weather lasts from Dec - March, after that it gets WAY TOO HOT to drive my camaro. I saved up, set a budget, and started my suspension work in November, with hope to have the car ready by December. Clearly, I wasn't prepared nor had the knowledge of the issues I din't consider (such as the ride height issue, the 2" spindles, the tie rod callout, and now having to get new brakes). This is really why I'm frustrated, (1) having to go over my budget again, especially shipping costs to here are $$$ (2) to be able to enjoy the car in the next 3 months.

I don't cheap out on myself by getting lower quality and affecting myself and the car, but when I'm asking for advice, it is to consider options that really gives me what I need now, including safety of course.
For example, if I were to get front brakes only..for now and enjoy it for 3 months... and then later get rears... will this reaaaally be bad??

Because I really want to have my car ready and not wait another year to enjoy driving it. Can you please help me on what I would NEED, considering cost as well.

To recap the situation:

1- Post streetgrip install, front ride too low and rubbing inside fender (tires 235/45/17)
2- Identified that I have 2" drop spindles - need to replace with stock
3- Stock spindles, assumption, won't fit my front brakes - need new brakes & control arms
4- Informed that my tie-rod ends might be scraping/hitting my wheels

I'll squeeze what I can, to get the stock spindle/brake/control arm setup. But, before choosing, I hope to get advice on what to get, including components, to avoid any surprises. (tight budget)

Selecting the right/best FRONT brake kit for stock spindles. I'll be getting the stock spindles/control arms/maybe tie rods separately.

1- Hubs: Can I use mine? Do I have the OEM GM drum hubs? Do I need to buy the hubs separately or do some come included in brake kits?
2- Rotors: Can I go with 11" Rotor sizes with 17 (or 18'' wheels if i plan to upgrade)?
3- Calipers: for just street driving, does it matter if 2 or 4 pistons?
4- Other stuff: brake boosters, brake lines.. is there something that doesn't come in a brake kit that I need to get ?

FOR EXAMPLE: This Baer kit comes with hubs, brackets.., so I wouldn't need to get separate ones..right? Is this kit missing any important components? (other than oe spindle) https://baer.com/11-Classic-Series-F...m-4301550.html

Another example: This SSBC kit must use the original hubs for the drum brakes, so that won't work on mine right? if it does..better as reusing what I can vs buying new helps in cutting cost. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...-25r/overview/

Regarding Tie Rodssomeone mentioned my outer rods look grinded as if they are hitting my wheel..I don't think so I'll check again but
1- Tie Rods: do they look terrible, can I wait and upgrade later on?
2- Rod kit: VERY stupid i know.. LS2 engine = I def have Power Steering right?

Again, I know this is too much, and makes me sound so ignorant.. but I'm new to this, I do my readings as much as I can, ask vendors / you etc as much as I can since over here we don't really have classic experts. I appreciate you all for supporting me all the time. MCB gave me a quote on a kit a couple of days ago, waiting to hear back info on the parts. Thank you all!



below is a photo of my brakes/rods again for reference.

[Aussie]

Ill check that out. MCB gave me a good quote on front brakes , spindles & arms...but the shipping will be $$$ so ill see how that goes

As another non USA purchaser, I can feel the pain with shipping.

I really like dealing with MCB, and works great when we can ocean freight out of Long Beach. I've been having discussions with Kim about overseas shipping, and maybe check with them about purchasing via their eBay store, you may not be able to get a discount price on parts but you make up for it with shipping savings.

[majj35]

As another non USA purchaser, I can feel the pain with shipping.

I really like dealing with MCB, and works great when we can ocean freight out of Long Beach. I've been having discussions with Kim about overseas shipping, and maybe check with them about purchasing via their eBay store, you may not be able to get a discount price on parts but you make up for it with shipping savings.

Ah good point ill ask Kim about that. Thank you!

[dhutton]

You don’t need new control arms or tie rods. You can replace front brakes without rear. You likely don’t need a new booster or master cylinder.

If it were me and I only had 3 months of driving ahead I would make sure the tie rods aren’t hitting the wheels, install the coil spring spacers and drive it for 3 months. Then replace the spindles and brakes during the hot weather.

Just my two cents, others may disagree. I am far from an expert

Earlier I suggested checking for tie rods hitting the wheels while turning the wheels. Bad advice, turning the wheels is not needed. Check for witness marks on the wheels as Carl stated. Sorry for the bad info.

Don

[majj35]

You don’t need new control arms or tie rods. You can replace front brakes without rear. You likely don’t need a new booster or master cylinder.

If it were me and I only had 3 months of driving ahead I would make sure the tie rods aren’t hitting the wheels, install the coil spring spacers and drive it for 3 months. Then replace the spindles and brakes during the hot weather.

Just my two cents, others may disagree. I am far from an expert

Earlier I suggested checking for tie rods hitting the wheels while turning the wheels. Bad advice, turning the wheels is not needed. Check for witness marks on the wheels as Carl stated. Sorry for the bad info.

Don

what about steering arms? MCB said they're needed for the stock spindles & brakes. and yes still waiting for my spacers and lowering block rear. I'll do an alignment as well. I'll drive the car as long as i don't rub anymore..I'll also check for marks on the wheel. Thank you

[dhutton]

what about steering arms? MCB said they're needed for the stock spindles & brakes. and yes still waiting for my spacers and lowering block rear. I'll do an alignment as well. I'll drive the car as long as i don't rub anymore..I'll also check for marks on the wheel. Thank you

Yes you’ll need steering arms.

Don