Its almost 2020, has the definition of pro-touring changed?

[Zoomin]

Look, I'm not trying to slam anyone, I'm just putting an definition out there like everyone else in the discussion. If you think your car meets the definition, then great! We're all here to discuss ways to make our cars perform better, right?

But having said that, by my own admittedly frivolous definition, your car is a hotrod. You don't mention anything about what makes your car handle or stop better, or be able to gobble up long stretches of road in comfort.



Mark Stielow builds pro-touring cars, Bill Howell builds race cars.

[anguilla1980]

Look, I'm not trying to slam anyone, I'm just putting an definition out there like everyone else in the discussion. If you think your car meets the definition, then great! We're all here to discuss ways to make our cars perform better, right?

But having said that, by my own admittedly frivolous definition, your car is a hotrod. You don't mention anything about what makes your car handle or stop better, or be able to gobble up long stretches of road in comfort.

Mark Stielow builds pro-touring cars, Bill Howell builds race cars.

Don't worry about slamming the delicate flowers that get butt-hurt online, I'm here for a good debate on the topic of this thread!

I didn't bring up anything other than the engine because that's what I wanted to focus on when I questioned you. Nothing about my suspension is stock. But as I said, this isn't about if "my" car fits some definition of something. I was asking about your interpretation of what is considered contemporary engine. Shall I presume you mean the engine block?

[Zoomin]

Don't worry about slamming the delicate flowers that get butt-hurt online, I'm here for a good debate on the topic of this thread!

I didn't bring up anything other than the engine because that's what I wanted to focus on when I questioned you. Nothing about my suspension is stock. But as I said, this isn't about if "my" car fits some definition of something. I was asking about your interpretation of what is considered contemporary engine. Shall I presume you mean the engine block?

Yes, I suppose I do mean the engine block. One of the cars I have is a 69 Camaro with a 406 sbc and I have an EFI setup on it. It has the full Ride-Tech coil over suspension, a/c and Wilwood brakes. By my own definition, it isn't "pro-touring" but it is this >< close to it. Does that bother me? Not in the least BUT I have plans to cross that line into pt territory sometime in the near future.

[anguilla1980]

Cool. Thanks for the response!

[raustinss]

meh - it's a lot cheaper to buy those luxury cars separately and complete rather than integrating into your PT car. Just saying!
For me it's a Panamera S!

Lol true .. but anyone can buy a Porsche.. not everyone can make a classic wagon, suburban etc luxurious. I see your point thou

[Bugzilla]

Yes, I suppose I do mean the engine block. One of the cars I have is a 69 Camaro with a 406 sbc and I have an EFI setup on it. It has the full Ride-Tech coil over suspension, a/c and Wilwood brakes. By my own definition, it isn't "pro-touring" but it is this >< close to it. Does that bother me? Not in the least BUT I have plans to cross that line into pt territory sometime in the near future.

What do you consider missing from your car to be PT? Something like a LS swap? To me it sounds like you already qualify. Again, I am one of the people who doesnt care if you still have an original 69 block in it, your engine isnt stock and thats what matters to me.

[BonzoHansen]

IBTL!

I think the term has been stepped on by the general public and by marketing. Some people call anything pro touring if it just has big wheels. There's another train of thought that if it can't do 200 at Daytona it's not a pro touring car. I think they're both wrong but what are you gonna do.



I just wanna see the touring put back into pro touring.

[parsonsj]

This is pro-touring.com. So we have to care some about what we consider to be Pro Touring. A good discussion so far -- with just (so far) a glimmer of possible trouble.

We welcome all types of cars and modifications, but we allow criticism of questionable practices too.

In the past, these definition threads have usually turned ugly, as we get to the nub of the issue for most enthusiasts: "Is my car included?"

So please -- let's keep this discussion friendly and civil. I'm as interested as any of you about what, if anything, has changed over the past decade or so.

[BMR Sales]

Lol true .. but anyone can buy a Porsche.. not everyone can make a classic wagon, suburban etc luxurious. I see your point thou

but not everybody has a LS Porsche with Suspension upgrades!

[T_Raven]

I've always considered the idea of pro-touring to be improving all, or at least most of a cars characteristics: handling, braking, acceleration, comfort, etc.


I have noticed some things that I find funny lately. I feel like there are more "glam-touring" builds. Ridiculous high dollar builds no one will drive. Idk, I see the point of a high end shop pushing the envelope to show case their skills, but regardless of the style of vehicle built, I'll never understand building a vehicle to be worse at what it was meant to do, especially if it costs 6 figures to build it.

I also see more cars for sale in the $100k range. I remember the first time I saw a pro-touring 1st gen Camaro for sale for $100k and the guy was laughed at by everyone on the forum.

Suddenly every $30k Camaro is worth $60k if you spend $5000 to upgrade the brakes and wheels. Throw in a LS and it's a $80k car. Aftermarket sub frame too? Instant $100k car, lol.

A guy I know works for a shop building custom cars. The owner just sent a 67 Firebird to auction. That's my favorite car and I've had mine for 20 years, but his is a color I don't like and way too blingy. He's expecting to get $250k because that's what he has in it. I think the guy's optimistic by about $200k.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I think it is relatively safe to say we are all building cars that are better than they were originally. Not just nicer paint or better brake pads, but genuine improvements in ALL areas. I think this is pro touring because they are just that, cars that do everything and not just one thing ( drag race, top speed ) For me the line just gets blurred at comfort levels.

[CSG]

I guess for me the blurry area is where is the line between pro-tour & retro mod. To me a retro mod is a car that has some areas improved with more modern stuff or maybe most areas but uses a lower "quality" of parts. IE, modern but smaller brakes, maybe something like a small block but with a sniper or Fi-Tech on it. The pro-tour car has more higher end parts and has addressed all or most of the car with more modern stuff.

[67-LS1]

I’m not sure there is a 100% clear definition of “Pro-Touring” and that’s a good thing. Is my 66 pro-Touring? I went with a 325 HP V6 but full Hotchkis suspension, Wilwood discs front and rear, tighter steering, big wheels, etc.
I’ll put 10-12k miles on my car every year so was trying to see if I could get 35 mpg while having twice the HP as stock and handle like a more modern car.
Maybe since I use mine every day the “Touring” part of pro-touring is misapplied. Pro-Driver ?

[andrewb70]

Is my Cougar Pro-touring?



Discuss.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Geez Andrew -- if only it had door handles and a wing mirror, lol.

[Alponcho]

I've always considered the idea of pro-touring to be improving all, or at least most of a cars characteristics: handling, braking, acceleration, comfort, etc.


I have noticed some things that I find funny lately. I feel like there are more "glam-touring" builds....

My own definition is like yours--improvements in those areas you mentioned for the sake of performance and reliability...the definition isn't linked to specific parts or cars so pro-touring hobby can evolve over time rather than morph into something else as the types of cars and nature of the improvements change with advances in technology. This definition also wouldn't include glam-touring builds (that term is awesome by the way) if the changes are not really improvements.

[andrewb70]

Geez Andrew -- if only it had door handles and a wing mirror, lol.

Door handles are so overrated...c'mon John...and you want two mirrors? What are you, old and you can't turn your head ;-)

Andrew

[dhutton]

Is my Cougar Pro-touring?



Discuss.

Andrew

In your own words:

“This isn't exactly a pro-touring car”

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=Cougar

This car is cool as heck but I’ve always considered it a hot rod. I think it’s that scoop sticking out of the hood.

Don

[andrewb70]

In your own words:

“This isn't exactly a pro-touring car”

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=Cougar

This car is cool as heck but I’ve always considered it a hot rod. I think it’s that scoop sticking out of the hood.

Don

It wasn't with the skinny front tires...but what about now? I just finished a 1900 mile road trip...it's super reliable...rips pretty well around corners...

So because it has something sticking out of the hood it's not "pro-touring?"

Beware...this is mostly a flaming post :-)

Andrew

[dhutton]

It wasn't with the skinny front tires...but what about now? I just finished a 1900 mile road trip...it's super reliable...rips pretty well around corners...

So because it has something sticking out of the hood it's not "pro-touring?"

Beware...this is mostly a flaming post :-)

Andrew

I took the bait but I’m not going to take it again.

Don