How Little Traffic...PT.com is

[geometryjeff]

Pics are on my Android phone. Could move to computer and resize. Would like input on project from experienced builders. Thx

[eville]

Use the app. Attach direct. Easy

[speedfreakcobra]

I just found this sub forum. I too have no social media. This is pushing it for me. I was recently in an "interview" and they told me I was "suspect" for not having any social media accounts (facebook, instagram). They also told me that it raises a red flag when it comes to their vetting process. I was floored by what they said. Maybe I'm just an old fashioned man, but the social media just rubs me the wrong way. We are a dying breed.

[Vimes]

Howdy y'all...I thought maybe this would be a good place to inject a "newb" viewpoint, so let me jump in with both feet with my first post...;) I'm a newb here, but been playing with anything with an engine in it for my whole life. Back in the 90's and early 2k's, street cars were my passion, but got burned and "harassed" out, and shifted to another hobby. But, as you get older, sometimes the body forces you to re-prioritize things, so here I am, dipping my toe in the water to see if you can "go home again", lol.

Anyway, being "old school", my first go to is to search for an enthusiast forum, for all of the good reasons already posted about them: pictures, long term history of knowledge, search function, community, and organization. These forums really provide extremely valuable information to someone taking on a long term, significant project.

Having been an admin on the largest forum, in a niche hobby segment for many years, I have seen forum traffic rise, and then fall off. It still exists, but is a shell of it's former self. As long as you're not the one paying the bills, it's my opinion that the best thing an every day, ordinary member can do is just contribute. Help build that invaluable knowledge base, and a welcoming community so that when a newb shows up, it lights the fire for them, and makes them want to participate too. Don't scream "use the search button" when they ask the difference between an LS1 and an LS3, or if a big block can fit in a tri-five, because you've answered it a thousand times. A friendly bunch of users will attract more and more people. I haven't seen a lot of that in my readings here, but we all know it happens. The other thing you can do is share about the site to anyone that listens. Put your project on the site, and when you're talking to a stranger, tell them where to see more pictures, and pictures of other awesome cars. That will drive traffic to the site, and generate new users.

This is a great forum, and I really appreciate the time people have put in sharing their projects and knowledge over the years. I have read through many many project threads, as I have about 15 years worth of knowledge to catch up on. I've got a few things to sort out before I can start a project of my own, but I hope to someday in the near future start my own build thread. So, don't just go by post count, there are people "out there" who appreciate what this is, just waiting to hopefully help make it better. Thank you again to every one who's participated, and made this such a cool place, you all have built some amazing cars over the years...

Bottom line, as hard as it may seem, don't fret, contribute, share, enjoy what is here, and it will all work out. OK, I'll go back to reading, drooling, planning, dreaming, and searching for that perfect, rust free project car at a bargain price (yes, the fabled unicorn)...;)

X2.

After reading some of the posts on this thread, I felt it wouldn't be complete without one.

[Vimes]

Just to be clear I hope everyone is clear in understanding I wasnt trying to be insulting or rude that you've busted your arse to build a Camaro. Please try to see what my point was . Having said that I still think that "pro-lux will be a new thing . Imagine a (chevelle guy inserts a chevelle wagon shock ) a chevelle wagon with front and rear ac seats, also heated .. heated and cooled cupholders , wireless charging pads , soft dimming lights , wifi, etc etc etc . I can see this happening. I mean yrs ago you never had a 800 hp car with ac and power windows now it seems to be the norm . Another trend I see coming is more home printed parts. Some of these 3d machines are within reason to the average person

A high end pro touring build is exactly what I'm doing. What I'm doing here, as a relative newb, was I needed suspension advice and of all the forums I checked, this one seemed to know the most about what makes a great suspension. Quite a few of the sites were just bolt-ons for one size fits all parts, but this site had posts getting deep into the theoretical side of why stuff works. Otherwise I'd not have bothered joining.

[TheBandit]

Thanks for resurfacing this thread. Lots of great points made.

Forums led to huge advancements in our hobby, a wealth of information availability, and an awesome niche community that was previously unable to connect without email listservers, by-mail clubs, etc. It saddens me to see traffic and content fall off over time as social media has chipped away at this space with fleeting-but-convenient content. Personally I think some integration between platforms could provide the best of both worlds. For example, I would love to see the protouringdotcom Instagram and Facebook feeds featuring content from threads on this forum, which would drive bi-directional traffic between the platforms and reinforce contribution. Many of the now-online magazine companies (e.g. Hot Rod Magazine) take this approach, referring to a link in their bio so you can get to web content related to their posts.

Some things I see as the major obstacles to forum participation:
(1) Difficulty adding / hosting photos.
(2) Poor mobile integration; I am using a keyboard less and less and using my cell more and more
(3) Unmotivated contributors.

For 1, the site can develop their own hosting platform, but if it's not integrated in a way that looks and feels like simple tools people are now familiar with, it will still be an obstacle. For example, if it gives you errors on image size without providing tools to correct, many people are just going to give up.

For 2, there are a few apps out there but I have had no luck with any of them. I honestly don't know how to solve this

For 3, provide reinforcement to contributors ("like" function, featuring their content, encouraging/modelling positive feedback, etc.). On Instagram or Facebook, people get a shot of dopamine when they get likes and comments.

Another thing that you can do is reach out to previous contributors and try to find out where they are now, what led to them abandoning the forum, etc. A little outreach beyond the forum itself may be good to keep people in the fold.

Larry if you want any help w/ Instagram let me know. I've become somewhat addicted to that platform and I'd be happy to help.

[andrewb70]

Good and thoughtful comments, Clint, as usual!

I too have gotten somewhat addicted to IG (not surprising...science and stuff...LOL) but I always make sure to make regular updates here on the forum. I also always smile when I google some question and then find threads that answer the question, which I posted 10 years ago. Apparently I knew stuff and forgot stuff...

Andrew

[yellow1098Greg]

I also have been saddened to see traffic slow down the last couple years....I like to post and ask lots of simple questions and the threads definitely die out a lot faster....I do think the posting picture situation contributed a lot...I would like to let the admins know on a few other forums they have a much easier direct upload setup right on the quick reply I use that frequently on the Jeep forum....I do hope the traffic pics back up but in my neck of the woods and age group there isn’t a ton people that share my hobby/passion either so I have relied heavily on this forum and a few others .....

[TheBandit]

Which Jeep forum are you referring to?

I like the interface of the "Xen forum" they have on stevesnovasite.com. It's a little smoother/slicker than what we have here with vbulletin.

One feature I would really like to have on some forums is the ability to "@" someone. Lots of times I will miss a forum reply because I simply never go back to visit the thread. It'd be nice if people could "@" eachother and get a notification. For example, I wanted to "@yellow1098Greg" when I asked which Jeep forum he was referring to; he may never see that question. Same thing with my offer to Larry to help with Instagram.

[Larry Callahan]

Which Jeep forum are you referring to?

I like the interface of the "Xen forum" they have on stevesnovasite.com. It's a little smoother/slicker than what we have here with vbulletin.

One feature I would really like to have on some forums is the ability to "@" someone. Lots of times I will miss a forum reply because I simply never go back to visit the thread. It'd be nice if people could "@" eachother and get a notification. For example, I wanted to "@yellow1098Greg" when I asked which Jeep forum he was referring to; he may never see that question. Same thing with my offer to Larry to help with Instagram.

Sorry, I am at wok and only have a second. I will pop in later today..

The forum is XenForo and we actually have a test site up and running with it. I do like it. It's much more mobile friendly and has some nice features.

We are/were working towards it and then funds ran out. I hope to get back into it next year. It's stupid expensive to set it all up without piecing it together for years.

[BonzoHansen]

we use xenforo at nastyz. You dont even really need an app with that. I use the PT app and the TaT app for lat-g, garage forum and the team sites. those are more phone app friendly than vbulletin.



it did take a while to get used to xenforo.

[yellow1098Greg]

Which Jeep forum are you referring to?

I like the interface of the "Xen forum" they have on stevesnovasite.com. It's a little smoother/slicker than what we have here with vbulletin.

One feature I would really like to have on some forums is the ability to "@" someone. Lots of times I will miss a forum reply because I simply never go back to visit the thread. It'd be nice if people could "@" eachother and get a notification. For example, I wanted to "@yellow1098Greg" when I asked which Jeep forum he was referring to; he may never see that question. Same thing with my offer to Larry to help with Instagram.

I am referring to jeepgladiatorforum.com .....they also have the @ feature your talking about which is very helpful along with a notification bell that is highlighted when someone replies to your post or a thread you contributed to....they are very helpful....you were right in that I didn’t know you replied unless I checked the thread......I am simply pointing these out to give suggestions that I think would help improve this forum I love so much .....I Am more passionate about my hot rod than my Jeep so I just wanna help the best way I can and this was one of if not my first forums and I love it and helped me tons with learning about my car and educated me greatly

[Rod]

I do wish I was back on the forums more... it is more work and as a one man shop, trying to make it in the world of stupid money big box retailers is tough, so I have very little time to spend on the laptop, but in January I dedicated a schedule, I set two hours aside in the morning to bounce through about 4 forums, then about 25 groups on facebook and then I head to the shop till about 6pm and then if I'm not wounded from the day I try to look at the computer again before dinner, sometimes after

[Ludachris]

Extremely long time lurker here, have never posted, mainly because I still don't have a pro touring project car yet... I hope to have a truck project I can work on soon. I love coming here to dream and follow some of the great builds, to be inspired and to indulge in the passion I have for these cars. I share all the same disappointment with the way participation has dropped off around here, and in forums everywhere. I might be able to offer a unique perspective, as someone who has owned and operated multiple forums similar to this one for two decades. I know the challenges Larry deals with on a forum like this. I still own and operate a few forums today, one of them being https://trackmustangsonline.com, which I recently took over in December and revamped - still a lot of work to do. Working on forums has turned into something of a crusade for me.

It's no secret that FB and IG have taken over. You can still find some forums out there thriving, but even those ones are not what they used to be. The social networks have changed user behavior and the way we communicate online. Those platforms are stupid easy to use, and sadly, even the best forum software hasn't completely kept up in that regard. Some forum admins have tried solve that by using apps like Tapatalk. That's a double edged sword, because Tapatalk ignores every custom aspect of the forum (like Garages and other custom features) and only displays the threads. Some members won't care about that, but it completely eliminates the admin's ability to promote valuable features (a unique selling proposition) which could be valuable in the segment they're in, which other sites don't have. And that's one of the best opportunities for forum owners can do to compete against the social networks and the larger forum networks.

For those who don't know much about the forum landscape, here's a quick history lesson: two big networks started buying up most of the forums out there roughly 15 years back (Internet Brands and VerticalScope). They have driven most of the sites they've acquired into the ground, running them on auto pilot - poor moderation, no attempts to modernize their forums, or bad execution when they do, and no real vision for the future of the segments they're catering to. I regret selling a couple forums to them, having watched them die off shortly afterwards. Add in the massive adoption of the social platforms 5-8 years back and it's no wonder people have largely stopped visiting forums. Then you have the handful of forums who haven't sold out to those networks, like this one and lateral-g.net, which still run VERY old version of the vB software, which is archaic to most people in the audience today (sorry Larry). These are the reasons you'll hear people saying forums are dead, even when some of them aren't. Perception becomes the reality. But in many ways, they're not wrong.

As Clint pointed out above, forums have several issues to deal with. Even if you have the most modern forum software running, there still needs to be a strong content-focused strategy on the part of the admin/owner, and at least a basic marketing strategy to bring visibility to the forum posts and an outreach plan to bring in new members and keep everyone engaged. You didn't really need that 15 years ago. You do today. The forum software needs to be constantly updated to ensure the most modern features get added regularly, it needs to be easy to use on mobile devices. The site has to be fast, robust, and free of bugs. New features/technology needs to be tested to find new things for members to engage with, to keep them coming back to use the site - and not just for browsing, but to participate and interact. Forums have become "tech libraries" that people only search when they need info. The problem is, they are only good tech libraries because they used to be vibrant communities. Without the community component, they won't continue function well as a library. Eventually they'll die off. I've watched it happen to some great forums.

We'll probably never see the glory days of forums return. But there is still a great deal we can do to keep some of them thriving at a decent level. GD-BH was right. We all have to be ambassadors for the forums, participating and pointing people from outside the forum to view our participation - and telling others on social media that you will answer their questions here in the forum (not there) so that others can then benefit from that conversation later. But admins will also need to step up and do WAY more to create user experiences that are now expected from everyone who has become used to the social platforms. I've been on a mission to try and revitalize some forums that have been on a downward trend. Not sure how much of a difference I can make, but I feel forums are too important to the car enthusiast community to let die off. We obviously can't depend on social networks for archived technical information, quality build threads, in-depth insights by passionate members of the community, or even any semblance of quality discourse for that matter. Feel free to read a rant I posted on one of my forums about FB's negative impact on the car enthusiast world here.... Forums are a very important part of our culture.

If you want to help forums thrive, participate often, try and help answer all questions that get posted in a timely fashion, don't yell at people for not searching, show them how to find info they are looking for as you answer, be welcoming to everyone who comes in as much as you can, and invite people from outside the forum to participate in the forum instead of on social media, letting them know that this is where you tend to offer advice so that it can be archived. Don't answer tech questions on social media. Don't use those platforms to post all the content you could/should be posting here. Don't follow the path of people who can could care less about the future of the automotive enthusiast community who use those platforms. Keep pushing the forum admins on the sites you love to do more, to get them to step up and do what needs to be done to help their forums evolve. And be open to the changes they bring when they do update their forum software. That's really all you can do to make a difference. The rest is up to the forum admins/owners to be innovative and push the forum forward. It will require a huge time and monetary investment on their part to do what needs to be done. Keep that in mind and try to be patient with them.

I would also say to try and support independent forum owners as much as you can, as opposed to forums owned by Internet Brands and VerticalScope. You can usually tell pretty quickly if they own a forum by going to the Terms of Service page or the Contact Us page. Those networks don't really have the same mission driving them as people like me and Larry. It's obvious by the way they manage their sites. Large forum networks will always be driven by something different than the smaller network owner, and the vision/priorities will be different.

Sorry for the long read. I can go on and on about this topic. It's probably my biggest passion outside of cars.

[andrewb70]

^^^Excelleny post! Larry and I have had brief discussions regarding the future direction of this forum. Larry does have some things in the works, but as mentioned above, it is a slow, expensive, and laborious process.

Andrew

[Ludachris]

^^^Excelleny post! Larry and I have had brief discussions regarding the future direction of this forum. Larry does have some things in the works, but as mentioned above, it is a slow, expensive, and laborious process.

Andrew

Oh believe me Andrew, I know the challenges well. I've invested time and money that I'm not sure I'll ever get back. Forum migrations and updates are a major pain and a lot of things can (and do) go wrong. That's why you see so many forums like this running old software. But it's a labor of love for me, and it's something I feel is important. I also feel a sense of urgency to take action now before things get away from us too much. Hopefully other forum admins feel this urgency and are finding ways to take action. Maybe I'll reach out to Larry privately to discuss what he's working on. I'd hate to see this forum continue down this path for too much longer.

[andrewb70]

You and Larry should have a chat.

Andrew

[TheBandit]

Larry if there is any way we could crowd source or help find sponsorship to address the cost aspect, please let me know. I would love to see this forum migrate to a newer platform. I'll see what I can do to drive participation and contribute more myself.

Thanks Ludacris for speaking from experience!

[Larry Callahan]

Thanks everyone for the input. I don't think crowd sourcing is going to raise the funds needed. It's stupid expensive to do it right.

I do mean stupid expensive.

[John McIntire]

I like forums better than any social media. I just like to look at the pictures on those platforms and that's about it. I spend more time here because I like the community, it's a good group of guys that are knowledgeable and really help each other out. If you ask a question that's been asked a million times, you don't get the blanket "do a search" response. There's no drama, fighting or cursing and everyone's respectful. I feel like this is the place to be if you want to learn and you can have an in-depth conversation with enthusiasts.
I don't know what the numbers were before all the social media came in to play, but I feel that this forum is pretty active. At least compared to Lateral G. Nothing bad about that forum, as I frequent both, but if you wait 24 hrs and visit this site and Lateral G and check for new posts, you'll find that Lateral G has significantly less activity compared to this one.
I think Larry has a good thing here and yes, it could be tweaked here and there to make it more user friendly, such as the photo posting, but I think that this platform is really the best in my mind. You can search and pull up posts pictures and follow builds. On Facebook it seems to me to be one big ticker tape and the stuff you post just gets pushed to the back, and it's only people looking for quick answers.
Keep it up Larry, thanks for all you do for us!