Enter your username:
Do you want to login or register?
  • Forgot your password?

    Login / Register



    Results 1 to 15 of 15
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States

      Brake System Killing Me!

      I try to be self sufficient but this brake system is killing me. I just can't get them to feel confident. The car slows down but it should be throwing me into the windshield. The pedal with no vacuum feels pretty firm but during my test drive just not great.

      System
      DSE Brake Booster
      1" ACDelco 18M974 screw top master
      C6 Z06 6piston front 4piston rear
      3/16 Copper nickel brake lines

      Master was bench bleed and i used the motive power bleeder its bubble free but i feel like there could be some air left even though the calipers push solid fluid.

      DSE recommends a 7:1 pedal ratio which would put the rod on the upper hole vs lower hole. I've read that the lower hole is what you use for power. When i had it on the upper hole it would feel really soft. In the lower hole the brake is in line with the gas pedal (dse dbw) its notibly lower than stock.

      Do i continue to bleed this thing?
      Is the top hole right? - I hate questioning DSE.
      Should i bleed front brakes (rear port) first? Does it matter?

      I have a caliper pressure gauge on order to check the pressure. I'm going to try the old 2 man bleeding and getting the rear higher to move any air bubbles closer to the plunger.

      Any insight is appreciated


      Thanks Nick
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      239
      Bleed, Bleed, Bleed, and then Bleed some more. You got air!

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Torrance, CA
      Posts
      39
      Country Flag: United States
      If your brake lines ever bend up, you could have air trapped in there. I had to re-run mine and had a bend over the trans tunnel that took forever to bleed. I also had a bad flare that looked fine but it was letting in a tiny bit of air as I bled it.

      I took the car to the local brake shop and they made quick work of bleeding with a fancy pump and fixing my leaky flare. Now my manual brakes work great!
      1966 Pontiac Tempest
      Two-door, no post. Fixing things one-by-one. Daily driven when it's not up on jackstands.
      UMI Stage 4 suspension. Manual Z06 brakes from Kore3. 275/40r18 and 275/40r19 rear. Currently building a Pontiac 400 stroker.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States
      I think I need to keep bleeding! I'm still uncertain on the brake hole location. dse says ideal 7:1 pedal ratio that means the top hole which is manual?
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Posts
      641
      No expert but here's what has worked for me. Not running your brakes but I've used C5 brakes on a number of projects.

      Two systems.

      1.Power brake bleeder. Uses air pressure to push fluid from the master to the calipers. If you buy the kit the chain hold downs are junk. Use c-clamps. This will also push all the air out of the master. Careful if you have new paint it has a tendency to overfill the master and make a mess.
      2. Mity vac that pulls the fluid from the master. A bit slower but it works.

      Always start from the right rear, then left rear, then right front then left front.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      The upper hole is 6:1 and only for manual brakes. I'm surprised you even able to hook it up there as there usually isn't enough swivel in the pushrod to get up that high without really binding up.

      Use the lower hole.

      You always bleed the port that is closest to the pedal, if that port is the front brake line, bleed that first.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks Don!
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Posts
      440
      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      The upper hole is 6:1 and only for manual brakes. I'm surprised you even able to hook it up there as there usually isn't enough swivel in the pushrod to get up that high without really binding up.

      Use the lower hole.

      You always bleed the port that is closest to the pedal, if that port is the front brake line, bleed that first.
      I thought the port farthest from the master was always bled first (Passenger rear)???
      Joe
      1969 Firebird Project
      1967 Frirebird 400 convertible
      2013 Boss 302

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States
      Update: I pulled the booster removed any shims I used to use the top hole (based on what DSE said originally) put it back together on the lower hold with the pedal adjusted. I was able to lock up the brakes. I still think i have some air but they are WAY better.
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Traverse City, MI
      Posts
      574
      Country Flag: United States
      if you feel like you might still have air, you could gravity bleed for a couple of days. It worked really well with my CTS-V calipers. I just ran tube from each bleed port up as high as I could and taped it to the car or a jack handle or anything and waited for a couple of days. It kind of makes a mess because of all of the fluid that will be in the tubes but it was really the only way I found I could bleed my stuff without a pressure bleeder.
      Project thread - https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ouring-Project
      IG - @tc_chevelle


    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States
      Ya, i though about gravity too. I'mg going to bleed one more time manually with a buddy to see if it gets better.
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by jlwdvm View Post
      I thought the port farthest from the master was always bled first (Passenger rear)???
      Look at it as two separate brake systems, front and rear. There are two separate pistons in the master cylinder, the only thing tying them together is a spring and brake fluid.



      Which ever port on the master cylinder is closest to the brake pedal is the system that you bleed first. Starting with the farthest caliper in that end of the system.

      So in the case of the DSE setup, the front port is rear brakes and the rear port is front brakes. You would bleed the front brakes first starting with the passenger side caliper. The reason being is that the front piston won't really stroke all the way until the rear piston is bled. It just makes the job go faster, you can certainly do it "wrong" and be successful, I have.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Posts
      440
      Name:  6300C9E5-AEBE-4A0B-96BC-F7330A598DD3.jpg
Views: 348
Size:  142.5 KBI thought I had my proportioning valve plumbed right, but now you have me second guessing myself.
      Sorry to highjack the thread. Sorry for the pix being upside down! The port for the front breaks is nearest the radiator on the Wilwood valve.
      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      Look at it as two separate brake systems, front and rear. There are two separate pistons in the master cylinder, the only thing tying them together is a spring and brake fluid.



      Which ever port on the master cylinder is closest to the brake pedal is the system that you bleed first. Starting with the farthest caliper in that end of the system.

      So in the case of the DSE setup, the front port is rear brakes and the rear port is front brakes. You would bleed the front brakes first starting with the passenger side caliper. The reason being is that the front piston won't really stroke all the way until the rear piston is bled. It just makes the job go faster, you can certainly do it "wrong" and be successful, I have.
      Joe
      1969 Firebird Project
      1967 Frirebird 400 convertible
      2013 Boss 302

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      782
      Country Flag: United States
      Joe, no hijacking at all. This is all good info.
      ________________
      Nick S.
      Gold/Gray 1967 Camaro

    15. #15
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Posts
      117
      Following

      '65 2+2
      347 - RetroTek EFI - 471 fwhp
      JBA shorty's, 2.5" tubes, Dr Gas X-pipe
      T-5 world class 5 speed, w/ .80 OD
      9" with 3.70's & T-loc
      4 wheel disc brakes
      17" Torq-Thrust D's, 225/45 & 245/45
      TCP/Global West suspension
      OpenTracker roller spring perches
      subframe connectors, Traction Masters, Panhard bar
      TCP manual rack & pinion
      power windows & power door locks w/ keyless entry






    Advertise on Pro-Touring.com