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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    460
    You should install the backer plate. Basically everything the way it will be installed.
    1971 Camaro - 406 / T56
    2016 Camaro SS convertible
    2018 Colorado 4x4

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Thank you for your response. If I put a .001 shim at 3 and 9, it will push out the 6 o’clock position also. Would you agree though that I must first bring the 3 and 9 out from negative using shims, and then shim the top in order to bring it closer to the bottom? Because as I shim the 12 o’clock position, the 6 o’clock position relatively goes more negative. Thanks for the help.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes the backing plate is in as it should be.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Here is a picture of my setup


  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Do you think that little bit of powder coating that it still towards the bottom of the Bellhousing could be pushing out the bottom some? I’ve cone to realize that .001 inch is very very small in everyday use, but for the sake of what we’re doing here perhaps some of that could be in that powder coating. Just a thought, trying to get through this.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
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    611
    Country Flag: United States
    Yes... I always take any paint off of the block surface and touch all surfaces with a flat file to remove any burrs. I had a machine shop machine an LT-1 T56 scattershield for parallel alignment once. Realize the further out from center you measure for parallel, the more its going to show. IE: if youre measuring parallel on a 4" diameter circle and youre out .004", a .004" shim on the bellhousing bolt-to-block will not be enough to move it into spec.
    If you ever do this again, or need a different offset dowel, get the ones from Robb MC... much easier to use.
    -Chris
    '69 Corvette
    '55 Chevy Hardtop
    AutoWorks Middletown, NJ
    @autoworksnj for corvette and shop car pics
    https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...e-Build-Thread

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    85
    Country Flag: United States
    Iíd check/try the following:
    (1) Verify your BH alignment dowel pins are not interfering in any way with the BH seating properly fully against the back of the block.
    (2) Remove the indexing plate and make your parallel measurements directly on the mounting face where the trans will connect to the BH and see if this makes a difference.
    (3) As you rotate your dial indicator to make your measurements, when you return to the starting point after sweeping 360 deg does the indicator return to zero or whatever measurement you started with at that point?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    I will attempt to remove the rest of the powder coating from the Bellhousing surface and re-measure this evening. If that doesn’t help I will attempt to do the measurement directly on the Bellhousing surface and will report my results. Thanks for the support and suggestions.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    I cleared off the powder coating tonight and checked some more. It did not help. This method seems far too “trial and error” given the numbers I posted, shouldn’t there be a formula to adjust this thing? Like, “x number if shims here and y number if shims over here to balance this out?” I keep banging my head trying to do this right, but with no success. I’ve literally spent tens of hours trial and erroring this. Should I bite the bullet and remove the front cover for the transmission and take my measurements off of that? Perhaps I’d have better luck with that, and supposedly it is the most accurate technique available. Who has actually done this parallel adjustment successfully and what was your process? Thanks for the read, help.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Also, why are there no videos online of someone actually adjusting the parallel using shims? There are a couple that briefly mention doing something, but nobody actually walks through this anywhere, and I’m not having as easy of a time as the pros make it sound like it should be.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    460
    Itís pretty trial and error. Try something retest and repeat that about half a dozen times or more.

    And ya we are talking tiny adjustments makes me wonder if itís really so critical. But bowler said it was so I did it. The Shims were so thin like paper. Hard to believe they did much. But the trans shifts wonderfully so maybe all that pain was worth it after all.
    Iím trying to block it out.
    So frustrating.

    I used the bellhousing for the parallel alignment not the plate.
    I used plate for concentric.
    For parallel I measured pretty far up and down on the bellhousing surface.

    Letís see if I have a picture.
    Not handy. Moved them all to my Desktop.
    So much Iíve done since then !!
    1971 Camaro - 406 / T56
    2016 Camaro SS convertible
    2018 Colorado 4x4

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Tried a bunch more today with no success. Spent a solid 4+ hours getting nowhere. I am taking the measurements on the QuickTime RM-130 plate. I will try next to take the readings straight on the Bellhousing. Perhaps the RM-130 Plate is off slightly somehow. If I can’t get it on the Bellhousing I might try taking off the front of the transmission and indexing on the bearing race like others do. I didn’t want it to come to that. I sent Bowler an email telling them about my issue. Hopefully they have some information that can help me. I put the shims over the bolts correct? Why has nobody ever posted their technique for doing this?

    Again, here are my values...

    12 o’clock...0
    3 and 9 o’clock...-.003
    6 o’clock...+.002

    About .005 out, when most that I read says to be within .002. The problem is, when I shim the 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock position to get them to 0 or a positive value, it pushes the bottom(5 o’clock position) out even more! If I bring my 3 and 9 o’clock positions to +.001 with shims, my 6 o’clock position will be more like .007... at that point I think to push out the top a bit to offset the top and bottom, but even then when I do I can get the top and bottom to level at about .006 each, but then the 3 and 9 o’clock positions are only about .002 each...still not in spec as they are then .004 off still...

    Who’s got the answer? I need help. Thank you!!

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    460
    See what bowler says.
    Seems to me what you have without Shims is fine.
    Itís within .002 top to bottom and side to side is dead on
    I would run with that personally
    1971 Camaro - 406 / T56
    2016 Camaro SS convertible
    2018 Colorado 4x4

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    85
    Country Flag: United States
    I've attached a photo of how I set up my parallel alignment measurement. I used packing tape to cover holes in the BH so the dial indicator probe would slide over them. My BH was off by -0.013 top and +0.006 bottom and off at 9 and 3 too, but on the order of 0.005 and 0. I had to shim along the top the most to get the BH within spec. It is trial and error and a total PIA doing it yourself under the car and took me too many hours to admit to so I feel your pain. Check out the info in the link below for comments on this topic from another forum. Read Jody's article too (link provided in that other forum's thread). Your measurements suggest that if the BH is perfectly flat (big assumption) your block is high along the vertical 12 to 6 axis and low at 9 and 3 so it's kind of convex. Try putting some shims (again trial and error) under the top 2 BH bolts only and see what happens. That will raise the top from zero to a positive value, putting no shims on the bottom should retain the +0.002 and may raise the -0.003 at 9 and 3 to an acceptable value.

    http://nastyz28.com/threads/bellhous...nt-101.284278/
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    Thank you very much for your response! I will attempt what you are suggesting, although I’ve likely tried it before, as I’ve put shims in just about every combination around the Bellhousing with no luck. It is true that you can’t shim the 6 o’clock position, correct? It’s free floating down there with no place to put a shim. Also, I have to repair one of the bolt holes with a helicoil because it stripped out and will no longer tighten to the accepted torque. 3rd helicoil I’ve had to do on the back of this block. That should tell you how many times I’ve checked this stuff. Finally, yes thank you for posting the link to Jody’s instructions for alignment, however, he barely even skims over what is required to correct the parallel alignment at all....”Your most (-) negative number will require shims between the engine block and bellhousing to correct the parallel alignment.”....that is not very helpful and doesn’t even scratch the surface of what is required for this.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    19
    Country Flag: United States
    I emailed [email protected] and he thought that given my readings and intended use of my engine that I should be fine with my current measurements. Thank you Craig for your advice and guidance, and thank you everyone else for your input and assistance as well. I’ll move forward with checking the concentric and adjust as needed.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,698
    Sorry to come of as a hack.. but how critical is this ? How many guys just bolt and Go?
    From a place you will not see comes a sound you will not hear....

    67 Camaro In progress

    https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-Tap-67-camaro

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    611
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLexusTech View Post
    Sorry to come of as a hack.. but how critical is this ? How many guys just bolt and Go?
    Plenty of people do, and get away with it, but if its off then you just assembled everything just to take it back apart. I ran my T56 like this wayyyy long ago for a bit and could not get into 1st without going into 4th first. Doesnt shift well (or at all) at higher RPM either... Is it a PITA, yes. But I think its more of a PITA to assemble the car, fill everything with fluids, and then possibly have to take it all out again.
    -Chris
    '69 Corvette
    '55 Chevy Hardtop
    AutoWorks Middletown, NJ
    @autoworksnj for corvette and shop car pics
    https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...e-Build-Thread

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    372
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by XLexusTech View Post
    Sorry to come of as a hack.. but how critical is this ? How many guys just bolt and Go?

    At the time of my install SST recommended that I do not bother with dialing the bell, apparently that recommendation was handed down from TREMEC. At the time, they commented that since the T56 Mag bells are locating the trans with dowels, they have had no issues.

    Since then, the recommendation has changed to dial in all bells, and well, I haven't had my trans out to bother checking it. With that in mind, I have 6,500mi on my T56 magnum and it works very well. Shifts smooth, downshifts great, high rpm, low rpm, whatever.


    The alignment plate was not available when I put mine in, otherwise I would have dialed it. I had the engine on the floor and had plenty of time to do it. Now, with the engine in, it's going to take a pretty serious tear-down of the car to put me in a position to dial it in properly.
    1972 Plymouth 'Cuda - Not LS-swapped, 5.7L Hemi [MS3 Gold Box], T56 Magnum 6-speed - 'Cuda Build Page
    1976 Dodge D100 - Warlock
    2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    460
    Hey if It works well you got lucky ! Keep on rolling !!

    1971 Camaro - 406 / T56
    2016 Camaro SS convertible
    2018 Colorado 4x4


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