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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jan 2000
      Location
      Thousand Oaks California
      Posts
      9,825
      Country Flag: United States

      Battery powered muscle cars?

      I love rowing gears and the noise of burning fuel. I also love the quiet crazy instant torque from an electric motor.



      Does anyone else want to see a battery powered Pro-Touring car rolling down the freeway and autocrossing or is it just me?

      If I had the time and money I would be all over this. In fact I've had the bug for about a decade and hope to do it someday.

      Last edited by Larry Callahan; 01-03-2019 at 09:05 PM.
      Larry Callahan
      Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com
      To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jan 2019
      Posts
      1
      Maybe call Sasha Anis engineer and owner of OnPoint dyno in Canada. He took relatively new Lotus chassis. Installed the best power unit from Tesla (I think), batteries from GM Volt (I think) and motor controller from somewhere. Programmed them with MoTeC and custom CAN hacked programming from a physicist in Europe. It’s really fast car. But took a year or so to build due to software. He contacted engineers from all the major automotive companies and they helped him the best they could considering he was mixing parts from different cars.

      Would be faster but he put enough batteries to drive 300 miles at cruise or almost 50-80 at full throttle

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,092
      Country Flag: United States
      It would make a hell of an autox car if it was 4WD but the electrical side would be tough.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Michigan
      Posts
      281
      Country Flag: United States
      People are starting to build them. I agree with the above comments; they make killer drag and autocross cars. I think whoever puts together a well thought out "plug and play" conversion kit stands to make some good money. There are plenty of pros and cons to electric conversions that people love to argue about, but you have to respect the instant torque and near zero maintenance. Most of the staunchly anti-electric people I've talked to have never driven a high performance electric car. Don't knock it until you try it! Here are some links for inspiration:

      - Charge 1967 Mustang: https://charge.cars/
      - Blood Shed 19668 Mustang: http://www.bloodshedmotors.com/; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vTCK9ywBA
      - eCOPO new Camaro: https://www.motortrend.com/news/chev...ic-drag-racer/

      Not muscle cars, but also interesting:
      - Lots of old VW's and Porsches: http://www.zelectricmotors.com/
      - Gasser 1981 Accord: https://electrek.co/2018/04/13/tesla...londa-record/; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF0fNkL886c
      - Ryan

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,925
      Country Flag: United States
      Pro-Touring is about instilling modern drivetrains and amenities on older vehicles. Electric cars are the future. F1 has been using hybrids since 2014. An electric or hybrid pro-touring car would be way cool!

      I'd love to get my hands on one of the GM electric motors from the eCOPO Camaro.
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Louisville, KY
      Posts
      54
      GM had an electric COPO Camaro on display at SEMA. 800 volt system, motor unit bolted directly to a Chevy TH400 transmission. Something like 658lb-ft at 1 rpm and 700+Hp at 10,000 RPM. There are a couple of videos floating on Youtube about it.

      It was a concept, but I think it's coming. The tech is proven, they're just down to packaging. And it would be cool. Talking with the guy, their biggest concert is figuring out how to turn it into a product that won't electrocute an amateur installer. 1400amps at 800v is nothing to mess with.
      Andrew Scott
      '87 GN - 12.8 @ 108
      https://www.andrewdscott.com
      Instagram: @andrewdscott12
      Twitter: @Andrew1427

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Aug 2018
      Location
      Saginaw Mi
      Posts
      94
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbo6inKY View Post
      GM had an electric COPO Camaro on display at SEMA. 800 volt system, motor unit bolted directly to a Chevy TH400 transmission. Something like 658lb-ft at 1 rpm and 700+Hp at 10,000 RPM.
      I dont understand how a trans and diff/axles can handle instant trq like that. Also id love to build a really small classic car like a triumph and put a sportbike V4 with hybrid drive train. Best sound in the word plus 200ft lbs of additional trq would be way to much fun.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Michigan
      Posts
      281
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Shawn0331 View Post
      I dont understand how a trans and diff/axles can handle instant trq like that.
      I know the production electric cars have sophisticated torque management software that "holds back" some of the available torque (the amount depends on what drive mode you're in) to save the rest of the driveline. I imagine GM is doing something similar with the eCOPO Camaro, but that car is unique because is uses an old school torque converter automatic. Most other electric cars are direct drive.

      Torque management is nothing particularly new; the OEMs have been doing this to prolong the life of drivetrain components in auto transmission cars for many years.
      - Ryan

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      5,725
      Country Flag: United States
      Agree with David that it's the control side that is difficult.

      I'd be all over an electric option if it could be installed without having to have a series of doctorate level folks help to set it up. An OEM crate motor (not engine ;-) ) option would be, from a practical standpoint, the way to go.

      I'm a bit skeptical on many of the hot-rod builds since often they lack the refinement level that many of us seek. The "Wow, it has an electric motor!" is often soon overshadowed by the clunky and/or unrefined drive quality and/or other compromises. High-power conversions are much more difficult (heat) to deal with than a simple dump-a-motor-and-batteries into a lightweight chassis. There are some conversions like this at local car shows and I cringe at the lack of safety.

      Road course use is a whole different animal, not dissimilar to gasoline engines from a cooling standpoint. Whereas gasoline engines have a ton of support and readily accessible liquid cooling systems, electric motors and battery packs typically do not. Not to mention the difficulty of at-track charging. The future is bright here with Tesla's road course upgraded drivetrain and battery pack cooling systems, but the vast majority of builds won't be this way.

      Eventually the USA will go the way of major European cities where zero emission vehicles are the only ones allowed during most hours. Though classics may get a pass, better and more accessible electric powertrains should become available.
      Last edited by CarlC; 01-04-2019 at 09:05 AM.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Huntington Beach, CA
      Posts
      2,413
      Country Flag: United States
      I was a bit disappointed in the GM eCOPO concept. Just the battery pack weighs more than the engine and tranmission of an LS3. Then you add the heavy electric motor and the fact it still uses a transmission and well, that setup would be a total dog on an autocross.

      Putting a dual motor Tesla drivetrain in an early muscle car with a low slung battery might be fun. The challenge with the battery pack is that in order to sustain the extremely high discharge rates that creates the massive torque/hp you need a large battery pack. Without the large pack, you can't get the burst energy needed so then you end up carrying around 500+ lbs of battery that you don't even need for energy density. That's a killer for autocross handling. When future battery technology allows greater energy discharge rates and you can use smaller compact batteries with less energy density then I see an all electric autocross car being really fun!

      There is a Cobra kit car with all electric drive train that has autocrossed in San Diego SCCA a few times. It did good. Definitely performed well enough to put a smile on anyone's face. But it was still slower than some of the other CAM cars there.
      Please Subscribe to the AutoXandTrack YouTube Channel

      Autocross and track blog about running autocross and track events with pro touring cars

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,925
      Country Flag: United States
      If Toyota (and others) can get solid-state batteries into mass production, that's a game changer. Faster charge rates, less cooling requirements, denser energy storage. It's coming...
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Feb 2011
      Posts
      282
      Check out the video of the Pikes Peak record setting VW electric car. Its CRAZY fast.
      70 GTO - Alum 5.3/4L80e, boosting this winter!

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      5,725
      Country Flag: United States
      Agree with JP and Chad about current battery tech. Ot may be quite a while before we see practical usage since there is so much new infrastructure surrounding current battery tech. Think Tesla's gigafactory and $ investment.

      If someone offered a rolling chassis with battery and motor(s) already attached.......
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Louisville, KY
      Posts
      54
      Quote Originally Posted by Shawn0331 View Post
      I dont understand how a trans and diff/axles can handle instant trq like that. Also id love to build a really small classic car like a triumph and put a sportbike V4 with hybrid drive train. Best sound in the word plus 200ft lbs of additional trq would be way to much fun.
      Easy, put a torque converter in front of it.

      You'll never want to use electric with a manual. That would be a terrific recipe for mechanical carnage.
      Andrew Scott
      '87 GN - 12.8 @ 108
      https://www.andrewdscott.com
      Instagram: @andrewdscott12
      Twitter: @Andrew1427

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Dec 2016
      Location
      Montgomery County PA
      Posts
      57
      I love the idea and would be so all over an E-touring car!!!
      No grease under the nails, no fumes in the clothes, quick, clean, quiet power. Can't wait.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Michigan
      Posts
      281
      Country Flag: United States
      - Ryan

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      South Lyon, MI
      Posts
      1,170
      Country Flag: United States
      I went for a ride in a Tesla P100D when at the Sandhill Open Road Challenge in 2017. The acceleration was brutal.

      I know there is a lot of appeal and that there will be electric Pro-Touring and Autocross cars. They will be in a different category than their fossil fuel burning companions. In autocross they have the potential to be the fastest cars out there.

      I doubt I will ever change over due to the cost differential and my affinity for exhaust noise and shifting gears. But I know I will not be able to keep up with the electric cars in any short duration event. That's just how it is.

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Arizona
      Posts
      229
      Shocking!

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Oct 2010
      Location
      SLC
      Posts
      488
      It makes a lot of sense to convert an older car to electric in some cases. My old fairlane has no power steering, no power brakes (which reduces the complexity of converting) and a massive trunk for batteries. Electric motors are dirt cheap, but unfortunately if you want power, and/ or range, the batteries become cost prohibitive. So greasy gas guzzler my car will stay, until it becomes cheaper, or there is better incentive to go the E-route.

      That said, I like the idea. Just wish i had the time and money to explore it.
      Zach

      "It so repulsive to see such a beautiful 1970 Mustang, with the other teams engine transplanted into it. I know that car would spit that thing out if it could. Just ruined it, when everything else about the car is so nice." - Bossed

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Louisville, KY
      Posts
      54
      Quote Originally Posted by Zachalanche View Post
      It makes a lot of sense to convert an older car to electric in some cases. My old fairlane has no power steering, no power brakes (which reduces the complexity of converting) and a massive trunk for batteries. Electric motors are dirt cheap, but unfortunately if you want power, and/ or range, the batteries become cost prohibitive. So greasy gas guzzler my car will stay, until it becomes cheaper, or there is better incentive to go the E-route.

      That said, I like the idea. Just wish i had the time and money to explore it.
      You might be better off bolting the batteries under the floor and keeping your trunk. The packs are quite flat.
      Andrew Scott
      '87 GN - 12.8 @ 108
      https://www.andrewdscott.com
      Instagram: @andrewdscott12
      Twitter: @Andrew1427

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