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    1. #41
      Join Date
      Jan 2019
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      2
      Quote Originally Posted by jetmech442 View Post
      Dude I coulda swore I recognized your username and some of those pics, then I realized I have your thread bookmarked from toymods. Your explanation of the Canbus termination actually made sense after having read a half dozen or so word-only explanations, so thanks for taking the time to post-especially the above. I've read the above twice now,and I'm sure I'll continue to absorb more as I re-read, but a few things already stuck out:
      Centering the system. The FRS uses a separate Steering Angle Sensor(SAS) that I do not have, it is quite pricey when new at 250$. I'm not entirely sure what the "resolver" does in the wiring diagram of the Steering Control Unit(SCU), but my SCU does not broadcast angle, so I'll have to figure something out there. Im hoping to map a much cheaper sensor to the right Can message. Interestingly, Can ID 0x18, which I'm convinced is Steering angle on the 500kbps Bus, does seem to have a static angle stored in the 3rd Bite that never changes, even from day to day. I think I may be able to center the system when I broadcast 0x18 by controlling that bite. IF not, then a friend lent me his TechStream cable and disc, which can do the programming, I'm just not sure if it will complete the alignment since it also tries to reset the YAW sensor, which I don't have(or need). also not sure if it needs to communicate with the rest of the Bus. But anywya, when the time comes, I'll try it out and tell you how it went.

      The fact that the TechStream is a toyota service tool tells me SCU should be toyota CAN, but I am finding a lot of ID's familiar to the WRX guys over on NASIOC (great resource and those guys take nerdy Can hacking/HEX editing to the next level!!!!). Thats really good insight though that the TC has the same wiring as the FRS, if the values that Tulsa and Fabio and the MIT guys would work on the TC module, then half the battle would be over.



      I love the wagon by the way, what a baller car. I'll bet with the supercharger its just a killer driver. Again man, thanks for the in depth post, if you see me heading down a path you've already tried feel free to steer me right. .
      The resolver is the Rotation angle sensor. so no need to worry about getting something else or speeding any more time on it has it already works. Toyota has more then one zero point calibration. Yes there is one for the yaw rate sensor, but the one I am referring to is zero point for the torque sensor and at the same time it will sset the steering angle sensor for center. If you have the cable and techstream then the calibration will be in the EPS module then on the left side bullets you will select the utilities and under there with either say initialization or zero point. then follow the instruction. something like center the steering wheel and stay still for 6 seconds. then it is calibrated. ECU know where center is for the steering wheel and torque sensor neutral position. The only 2 things you need to focus on is one sending the RPM over can which you already have and then sending the speed signal over can. This was I the main reason I went with the non ABS yaris ecu has you not only need to figure out the HEX code for speed. but the write a code that will take the analog signal and convert to the correct HEX code. But I will love to see someone get it worked out has it would open a lot more option of EPS system. Like the Lexus IS350 EPS rack and pinion that I want to put on my 87 Toyota supra.



      one other thing you should do is go to techinfo.toyota.com you can sign up for a 2 day for like 20 bucks. print out all the repair manual pages for the EPS system. but also click on the 'new car features" will just be the abbreviation "NCF". for the 2014 scion FR-S. This will give you a way better explanation of how the system is built and works.


    2. #42
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      Jun 2012
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      Quote Originally Posted by AE95 View Post
      The resolver is the Rotation angle sensor. so no need to worry about getting something else or speeding any more time on it has it already works. Toyota has more then one zero point calibration. Yes there is one for the yaw rate sensor, but the one I am referring to is zero point for the torque sensor and at the same time it will sset the steering angle sensor for center. If you have the cable and techstream then the calibration will be in the EPS module then on the left side bullets you will select the utilities and under there with either say initialization or zero point. then follow the instruction. something like center the steering wheel and stay still for 6 seconds. then it is calibrated. ECU know where center is for the steering wheel and torque sensor neutral position. The only 2 things you need to focus on is one sending the RPM over can which you already have and then sending the speed signal over can. This was I the main reason I went with the non ABS yaris ecu has you not only need to figure out the HEX code for speed. but the write a code that will take the analog signal and convert to the correct HEX code. But I will love to see someone get it worked out has it would open a lot more option of EPS system. Like the Lexus IS350 EPS rack and pinion that I want to put on my 87 Toyota supra.



      one other thing you should do is go to techinfo.toyota.com you can sign up for a 2 day for like 20 bucks. print out all the repair manual pages for the EPS system. but also click on the 'new car features" will just be the abbreviation "NCF". for the 2014 scion FR-S. This will give you a way better explanation of how the system is built and works.
      Okay, I assumed the resolver would be the angle, but I also assumed it would broadcast the angle from the SCU out on the CANBus. But when I only saw 0x370 and 0x4C8, I figured my assumptions were wrong and the resolver must not be what I thought it was, but I hear what your saying, so I'll concentrate on speed and RPM first. Thanks for the description with the techstream, I hadn't actually wired it up and played with it yet, I was just going off the zeroing instructions I found online, so I'll try to get to that tomorrow morning. Ill defiinitly go to techinfo.toyota.com and grab the extra info, I didn't know that was another option.

      I've been working on decoding everything at night when the tiny ones go to bed, but it's slower going than I'd hoped. I'll post up in a few what I have.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    3. #43
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      Jun 2012
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      Chicago burbs
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      0xD4 wheel speed
      Little endian(that just means put the higher order bite first:so if you use excel, RPM=hex2dec(concatenate(B1,B0))*.03495
      or if you already converted the hex to decimal, the equation below will work just the same.
      (B1*256 + B0) *.03495
      example of message contents: {0xD9, 0x7, 0xDC, 0x7, 0xE2, 0x7, 0xE1, 0x7} is an example of 70.2 mph.
      each group of 2 is a certain wheel. I don't know really which is which...don't really care right now I guess.

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      0x140 has a bunch of stuff in it, I care most right now about engine RPM
      B2 and B3 are RPM.
      little endian
      example {0x1E, 0x9, 0x8E, 0xF, 0x1E, 0x1E, 0x22, 0x20}; this message content is for 3982 RPM.

      PROTIP: if your at idle, then B2 has a "4" added to the hex number which throws off the reading. They may use the 4 for a purpose, like to signal if clutch was used, I don't know yet. For example, B2 = 43 and B3 = E8. You need to strip the "4" off to properly have E83, which equals 1000rpm. otherwise you have E843 which is 17384 rpm.
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      0x18 has to do with Steering angle. I've been working on deciphering it, but I need some legit time to get nerdy and be able to think, so maybe next year lol.
      For the graphs below, the car was turned on and idle. then we only turned the wheel left to the stops, then right to the stops, then back to center.
      B0 I think has to do with a way to tell if turning cw or ccw, maybe velocity also? not sure.
      B1
      B2 is static at 112. I think this is programmed as the "zero" when you use the techstream. I might have chance to get a dump from a BRZ, this number would be different if it is what I think it is.
      B4,B5,B6 are empty
      B7 a much noisier signal that follows the movements of the wheel.
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      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    4. #44
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
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      We are diving deep...love it.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    5. #45
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      Okay. I've taken all 18 messages I captured on the high speed bus (500kbps), and re-broadcast them to my test rig, but I'm not seeing any reduction in current. I have a few thoughts I need to chase down, I'd be more than happy to entertain comments/suggestions or questions-anything that I havent considered. I am currently applying a torque that demands 2.5 amps, and broadcasting the messages taken from a segment where we were doing 70mph. I assume there is much less assist at 70mph(thats the whole point of this at least).

      1)Assist reduction doesn't occur the way I think it does.
      If it doesn't reduce assist statically, then I'm not entirely sure how I would try to measure a dynamic torque with repeatable accuracy. Open to suggestions.

      2) My arduino code is wrong.
      Highly possible-I've cleaned it up as much as I can to reduce any errors. And later today I'm going to post over on seedstudio to see if someone feels like belittling me for my poor excuse of coding lol. I don't want to post the code here yet because it doesn't work. If anyone wants it though to help I'm happy to PM them.



      3) my arduino is not properly re-broadcasting the messages.
      I rebroadcast RPM to my G8GT so I think it's okay, but I can't be entirely sure what happens when I try to send all 18 messages. do I need a delay? Does the delay mess up the sync with the bus? I dunno. I could get another Uno and CanShield and have it read in what I think I'm broadcasting. wouldn't hurt I guess, as I could use the extra setup on the G8 later on.

      4) 0x18 was captured from the FRS and is definitely lots of stuff for steering angle. My SCU doesn't broadcast that angle, but it does have a resolver which I believe(especially after talking with AE95) is also a steering angle. Maybe 0x18 and the internal resolver have to match somehow? maybe its a fail safe? I don't know, just thinking of possible causes.

      5) some of the channels, like 0x18 have an incrementer on the last byte that increases everytime the message is sent. It's not steady. I wonder how precise the thing needs to be, or if it syncs with an internal clock or something weird like that.


      Okay, thats what I got. The journey continues.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    6. #46
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      Okay, so I bought a book. yes-it's getting that bad, I know. "Controller Area Network Prototyping with Arduino" is from Copperhill Technologies and he covers the J1939 standard and how the arduino fits into it, as well as capabilities/limitations, and he provides libraries to interface with CAN.
      One of the takeaways is that arduino is not quite fast enough to read EVERY message and post it to the screen via Serial.print(and definitely not fast enough to store them in the buffer and the read/write to an SD card. In order to get the data that I showed above, it strips off a lot of data and just leaves you with the ID and the 8 byte data set.

      Now, this still may be my go-to solution once I've completely figured out what channels are important and how to exactly replicate them(including the Cyclic Redundancy Counter). But in the meantime I need a platform that has troubleshooting software built in and has play-back capabilities. So, in comes Raspberry Pi and the PiCan2 module! I have them both on my desk right now downloading all the setup files. So next steps are to re-record the FRS at 70mph and doing turning stuff, probably start next week because my buddies FRS is under the knife for the valvespring recall, but I'm hopeful that once I get a clean scan on the PiCan2 and use the playback feature to isolate the channels that the SCu cares about.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    7. #47
      Join Date
      Nov 2019
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      1
      I hope you have break through, my programming or my electronic skill is not as strong as yours.

      Have you contacted this guy?

      https://www.geraldjustprojects.com/b...canbus-upadte/

      Here is what he posted in his blog:

      As for power steering, This system operated in reverse. When the ECU is working correctly, It will read the RPM signal from the engine. if the engine is not running. it will not turn on power steering. Once the engine has been started it will turn it on as usual. But in a event of a emergency of something is wrong with the system. it can determine if there is no signal coming from the engine what so ever and power has been applied to it it will default to ON, then broadcast a fault code.

    8. #48
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      Most systems call that "failsafe" mode. So in case engine dies while driving, PS is still functional.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
      I hope you have break through, my programming or my electronic skill is not as strong as yours.

      Have you contacted this guy?

      https://www.geraldjustprojects.com/b...canbus-upadte/

      Here is what he posted in his blog:

      As for power steering, This system operated in reverse. When the ECU is working correctly, It will read the RPM signal from the engine. if the engine is not running. it will not turn on power steering. Once the engine has been started it will turn it on as usual. But in a event of a emergency of something is wrong with the system. it can determine if there is no signal coming from the engine what so ever and power has been applied to it it will default to ON, then broadcast a fault code.
      Hey conundrum, thanks for the link! i'm going to spend my usually uneventful friday going through it. Right after my last post my wife decided we needed to move. So we had to complete all the open projects in the house, re-install the brakes I just pulled off the cutlass, well the house, buy the new house. All that went cool, then the 3rd week in the new house a 70 foot white Burr Oak came down for no reason. Quoted 2K to turn it into firewood-but what a waste! so I did the only responsible thing, which is buy an 800 dollar chainsaw and an alaskan chainsaw mill. So now I have more lumber than I know what to do with lol.

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      But anyways, I just finished a workbench in the new garage(guess what I made it out of), so now I can get back to work on the steering system.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    10. #50
      Join Date
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      I bet some woodworker would give you good money for that wood.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    11. #51
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      Seal the end grain or it will split and check imho.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    12. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      I bet some woodworker would give you good money for that wood.

      Andrew
      Like enough for a supercharger? I've got some 4" thick slabs about 7 feet long that could make ahelluva table.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    13. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      Seal the end grain or it will split and check imho.

      Don
      Thanks Don, I sealed it with a Primer /latex combo then the rest of a can of mothers carnuba wax . Stacked, stickered and covered. I'm definitely new and excited to make some beautiful furniture so any other advice is more than welcome.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by jetmech442 View Post
      Hey conundrum, thanks for the link! i'm going to spend my usually uneventful friday going through it. Right after my last post my wife decided we needed to move. So we had to complete all the open projects in the house, re-install the brakes I just pulled off the cutlass, well the house, buy the new house. All that went cool, then the 3rd week in the new house a 70 foot white Burr Oak came down for no reason. Quoted 2K to turn it into firewood-but what a waste! so I did the only responsible thing, which is buy an 800 dollar chainsaw and an alaskan chainsaw mill. So now I have more lumber than I know what to do with lol.

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      But anyways, I just finished a workbench in the new garage(guess what I made it out of), so now I can get back to work on the steering system.
      Great Idea! Since mine fell on my Mancave/Workshop, I had to hire people to remove it. looks like our Trees were related in Root-Rot



      Last edited by BMR Sales; 11-21-2019 at 06:31 AM.

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
      Great Idea! Since mine fell on my Mancave/Workshop, I had to hire people to remove it. looks like our Trees were related in Root-Rot



      Oh man!Looks like you built you man cave like you build your suspension pieces-tougher than the right side of a rhino's @$$! Looks like you coulda saved some money and left it there to use a an engine hoist lolol.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    16. #56
      Join Date
      Jun 2020
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      Country Flag: Italy
      Hi All,

      I've find this thread googoling for EPS conversion steering...I have Impreza WRX where I change from hydraulic to EPS the steering system. I made this using a Corsa C EPS...this sistem work "well" with street tire (this car is only 1250kg) but whit semislick tires the Corsa EPS doesn't work. The system go il failsafe when the car is stopped (like parking) and during cruise isn't 100% reliable....
      This because the motor is small...
      Reading this good thread (and the thread of MWP on other forum) seems the BRZ/FR EPS is good. The BRZ/FR is little bit lighter then my Impreza, around 1180kg...but seem the system work well in a Cutlass that weight around 1500kg...
      Is this right?

      I looking for use also a RAV4 EPS that have a very big motor, and it's used on a car of 1500kg...I think the system is tested/checked for more kilos....

      Thanks for reply, and apologise for my bad writing!

      Bye
      Fabry

    17. #57
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      Glad I found this thread, have it saved. I'm doing the same thing and have a 2010 Corolla box in my shop right now. Haven't started playing with it yet though. I went with the Corolla because it's a FWD unit, and I figure turning wheels under power is going to be a lot harder to do than turning wheels that are just along for the ride. And as Toyota uses a lot of the same parts across the board, your FRS probably has the same unit, just with different programming for a RWD car.

      So, any luck with getting this working? I tried reading that canbus programming language, and I can't wrap my head around it. I have a hard enough time with English and it's supposed to be my primary language.

    18. #58
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      Jun 2012
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      Chicago burbs
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fab View Post
      Hi All,

      I've find this thread googoling for EPS conversion steering...I have Impreza WRX where I change from hydraulic to EPS the steering system. I made this using a Corsa C EPS...this sistem work "well" with street tire (this car is only 1250kg) but whit semislick tires the Corsa EPS doesn't work. The system go il failsafe when the car is stopped (like parking) and during cruise isn't 100% reliable....
      This because the motor is small...
      Reading this good thread (and the thread of MWP on other forum) seems the BRZ/FR EPS is good. The BRZ/FR is little bit lighter then my Impreza, around 1180kg...but seem the system work well in a Cutlass that weight around 1500kg...
      Is this right?

      I looking for use also a RAV4 EPS that have a very big motor, and it's used on a car of 1500kg...I think the system is tested/checked for more kilos....

      Thanks for reply, and apologise for my bad writing!

      Bye
      Fabry
      Hey Fabry,
      I'm glad the thread is of some use to you. I admit a lot of the knowledge was pieced together from the threads you subaru guys posted. The reason behind the FRS unit and not something out of an SUV, was that I thought the programming/ calibration of the FRS was great. My hope was to see how well that stock system would work if I fed it factory style inputs.

      It hasn't been installed yet. I realized that the arduino Can-shield isn't fast enough to collect the entire message and broadcast what I need. I switched over to a PiCan2 /Raspberry PI setup and then got buried by work/home/ and now quarantine.

      As far as your failsafe issue, you may try to feed some cool air to the motor controller and/or the motor itself. I'm not sure if the motor temperature is actually measured or if it is predicted based on usage. If your under-dash temps are hotter than the Corolla then that might explain it...

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    19. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vimes View Post
      Glad I found this thread, have it saved. I'm doing the same thing and have a 2010 Corolla box in my shop right now. Haven't started playing with it yet though. I went with the Corolla because it's a FWD unit, and I figure turning wheels under power is going to be a lot harder to do than turning wheels that are just along for the ride. And as Toyota uses a lot of the same parts across the board, your FRS probably has the same unit, just with different programming for a RWD car.

      So, any luck with getting this working? I tried reading that canbus programming language, and I can't wrap my head around it. I have a hard enough time with English and it's supposed to be my primary language.
      There's a ton to be learned from the arduino/Can-shield setup. It may be possible to get just that system to work live on your car, but I don't think I'm good enough to figure it out. The Raspbertry Pi/ PiCan2 seems promising, but I got bogged down trying to get the lcd screen to work so I wouldn't have to bring my laptop in the car each time I wanted to record data of my buddies FRS.

      If you figure anything or have any questions let me know and maybe one of us will crack this thing.

      1969 442 6.0L LQ9 T56
      Fab9 w/ custom 3 Link conversion
      FAYS2 Watts link
      Thanks to Mark at SC&C for his honesty and passion for the sport, and Ron Sutton for the wealth of knowledge that has helped shape so many of the cars on this site.

    20. #60
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      Central CA USA
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      I made this a Sticky so it can be more easily found. It has some great tech, (except for the Tree part)...
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

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