Why build a pro-touring car when the new muscle cars are so good?

[lobudget]

After picking up a new Corvette I've started re-thinking my plans for the project cars. I agree with those who say the modern performance cars lack a soul but when the only original part of a fist gen Camaro is the roof skin how much of its soul remains?

It was pretty simple for those my age. I got my first performance car in 1973. For a long time each year's new cars seemed a little worse than the year so I kept modifying stuff from the 60's. The C5 Corvette was the first car that made me feel like modified muscle cars were facing a tough challenge from a new showroom offering.

Not too long ago I thought 400 rwhp was a healthy street car. I think I understand how Flathead guys felt in the 60's. Things could be worse, could be no new cars with over 200 HP and European style restrictions on modifying old stuff.

[pro86tourn]

I can certainly say for myself personally owning both the 2017 gt350 and an 1987 monte carlo ss... as much as the gt350 (not stock) is absolutely INSANE and an unbelievable track car on road courses and gets tons of looks on the street it simply lacks the emotion from the Monte.

The Monte was my first car at 14 I remember my dad picking me up from school in Canada and driving down to Maryland to pick it up. I am 29 now and I learned everything I know about cars on that car. Im going LS now when the car had a built 327 but im choosing to stay carbed as i like the smell, the temperamental behaviour, the crap gas milage etc... the car has the emotion, something about taking the ttops off and starting it up. sure it doesnt brake on a dime or handle like it will snap my neck but its purely fun!

Both types of cars surely have their place but if i had to sell one ... it would be the gt350. New tech always comes out and something will be better, faster, better looking. The Monte will always be the classic.. old school ride that made me love American Cars.

[c4racer2]

Heh. Some of us are old enough to remember when your 1987 Monte was the modern muscle car ! Ha!

[Steve Chryssos]

Heh. Some of us are old enough to remember when your 1987 Monte was the modern muscle car ! Ha!

Agreed. They are the same, as far as I am concerned -- 67 Camaro, 87 Monte and 2017 Camaro. Speed, handling, aesthetic and other upgrades are available for all generations of muscle cars.
Steve

[BMR Sales]

in the end, your Pro-Touring car is always going to be worth something, whether finished or not.

a New Camaro/Mustang/Challenger will be on Buy Here Car Lots in 5 years or less, the Warranty is over and it is just another Rode Hard, put away Wet car.

[AU Doc]

For my part, there are no cars (in my price range) that have looked really good since the early 70's. There are cars that are interesting for one reason or another, but when it comes down to spending my time and money on one, I just can't see it for anything other than something built before about 1972.

But everyone has different tastes, so i can appreciate the 2010 Camaro that someone has kept immaculate and has added all sorts of customizations. Taste in cars is a lot like taste in..... uhmmm... coffee. Everybody likes theirs a little different

[chuckd71]

Because I need a hobby.

[Zachalanche]

I started my pro-touring project when the bar was much lower, and I thought I could build something better. Now I'm just throwing good money after bad. But hey as long as the new cars keep going up in power, the engine swap options just get better.

[79 Camaro]

I think it's interesting that cars of the 80's are now considered classic. I've never owned one but the Monte SS is one of my favorites along with the turbo Regals.. I did drive 3 hours to go look at a Monte SS that was rust free and very straight. Owner failed to mention it had been t-boned and repaired really badly.

Other thing is when those "new" cars are 5 years old, out of warranty and on the used car lot they are about one third the price of new. They are still fast and a great start for modifications. Our used 14 Mustang GT vert with 17,000 miles was $22,000. That's about $15,000 less than new. Still has the drive train warranty thru 2019. It's a fun car that has a late model soul and that's not a bad thing. Can't even begin to build a 60's-70's hot rod for that kind of money.

[c4racer2]

you can get a rusted out shell as a project starting point for that kind of money!

[cornfedbill]

After picking up a new Corvette I've started re-thinking my plans for the project cars. I agree with those who say the modern performance cars lack a soul but when the only original part of a fist gen Camaro is the roof skin how much of its soul remains?

It was pretty simple for those my age. I got my first performance car in 1973. For a long time each year's new cars seemed a little worse than the year so I kept modifying stuff from the 60's. The C5 Corvette was the first car that made me feel like modified muscle cars were facing a tough challenge from a new showroom offering.

Not too long ago I thought 400 rwhp was a healthy street car. I think I understand how Flathead guys felt in the 60's. Things could be worse, could be no new cars with over 200 HP and European style restrictions on modifying old stuff.

After competing twice in the Sandhills Open Road Challenge against a plethora of modern Corvettes and Camaros, I see your point. The stock Vettes ran the course effortlessly at some pretty high speeds, and even did very well in the mile shootout. The fastest car in the mile shootout was a warmed over C6 Z06 with nitrous. It was much less expensive than a full pro-touring First Gen Camaro.

I am tempted to jump ship too and to move to a modern car. But my heart is still with a homemade classic.

[c4racer2]

I've owned a bunch of them. Very capable cars - very fast on a track. But somewhat boring. To me. YMMV.

[andrewb70]

you can get a rusted out shell as a project starting point for that kind of money!

You can get very nice cars that are not rusty and would make a great starting point for a project. It just won't be a Camaro.

Andrew

[Shawn0331]

Honestly a lot of the modern muscle cars in the next handful of years will probably be the lowest ever you'll be able to get them (in great condition that is). Crazy how cheap i have seen some high millage gen5 camaros, c5 vettes, and first year coyote stangs going for lately. How many of you guys were driving Monte's, Fox bodies, and 3rd gen camaros in the 80's and 90's and thought they weren't going to be worth anything. Good condition they seem to go for good money these days, in some cases more than they were new. Whats really crazy is to see how much it has changed for the Japanese market, 10 years ago you could by low mileage Acura NSX's for 20k now if you want one in that price range its got 200K miles.

[79-TA]

I think the short answer as to "why" is to make the car functional and enjoyable. If you don't use it, you won't enjoy it as much.

Since 2005, I've made sure to have a second car to spare my Trans Am from the wear and tear of daily driving. The unintended consequence is that I end up enjoying the daily driver as much or more than my Trans Am just from using the daily more often. This applies to every car I have daily driven from my Miata, to my '05 Mustang, to the '87 Mustang I used to have, and even an '88 Olds Cutlass Ciera.

My Trans Am has long suffered from heating issues and different transmission problems. I should have thrown in a manual 10 years ago when I first rebuilt the engine. This would help reliability and the mediocre 2.73:1 compromise rear gear ratio. My car still isn't very pro or touring.



Here are some of my thoughts on other ideas mentioned in this thread:

"It's about emotion"

This is an interesting one, but I think it needs to be clarified that this is usually limited to platform/chassis/body selection. When choosing specific parts, much of the pro-touring community is very objective and function-oriented. We just choose to initially limit ourselves with outdated and (relatively) expensive platforms.

"Other cars have no soul" or "get no attention"

Cars from any era have soul and are aesthetically pleasing. Older cars are benefited by being overwhelmingly surrounded by newer, differently-styled cars that serve to make the old muscle car stick out. I remember getting 1st gen Camaro fatigue for the first time in 2011 after seeing so many of them at events and shows.

As far as "breaking necks", goes, it depends on who your audience is. My rumbly '93 RX-7 gets way more attention than my Trans Am. The FD3S is a much rarer car by an order of magnitude, has its own great styling, and also marks a unique high point in automotive history.

My 2005 Mustang is still fairly current and as a result blends into traffic. I still love the way the early S197's look and they're a great performance bargain. With 150,000 made in '05, it's not a rare car, but I don't think that makes it so common as to be "soulless." "Soul" shouldn't come only after some kind of survivor status has been achieved.

[jimco84x]

Soul and something to do. The soul part cant be said enough. I bought a 2012 Boss 302 because it felt like it had some soul compared to all the other newish cars I have driven. I got rid of it because I it lacked the character of my 91 RX7 Turbo. Sure, it was marginally faster, but bigger, heavier, less connected. I ended up replacing it with a 69 Corvette that is full of character for less than I sold the Boss for. It's not perfect, but a nice driver with gorgeous paint, a 5 spd and Sniper EFI. Crazy thing is that I wanted a First Gen Camaro again, but the Corvette was actually cheaper...go figure.

FWIW, my wife likes the old vette too. and she loves the side pipes

[c4racer2]

Actually I was mostly joking. I got a very well done car more than half-way built to pro-touring for under $20K, and it was a Camaro! second gen tho - not first gen.

[stab6902]

I think the short answer as to "why" is to make the car functional and enjoyable. If you don't use it, you won't enjoy it as much.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If I can't safely and somewhat comfortably (especially important since my family is often in the car) drive my 60's/early 70's car in everyday rush hour traffic, I know I won't use it. I don't go "hardcore" pro-touring like many on here do on my own cars, but I do upgrade the suspension/brakes/wheels/tires so I can stop as well as the person texting in the new Nissan in front of me.

As you get into the "hardcore" pro-touring world (roll cages, rowdy motors, 315 front tires, etc), you start cutting down on functionality again, which isn't for me.

[Bugzilla]

I have had my Bug for around 6 years now. I am tired of working on it. I race it, then work on it. Race it again, work on it. I dont mean I break it every time (close to it though) but I still have to give everything a once over. In my Evo IX, I race it and change the oil. Race it again, change some more oil. Its nice. New cars handle better to start with and that means you dont have to go extra crazy with full on race car parts to make it handle good and ride bad. So to me, I like newer cars. Just got to choose the right one to stand out from the crowd.

[shelteredchevelle]

I've had a bunch of hot rods over the years, but most everything was kinda daily driver, fix it as I go stuff. I decided to build something we could hop in and drive anywhere comfy like. My wife had one criteria which was it had to be a 2 pedal car, no clutch. ):... We found a sweet 2012 V and I haven't regretted a minute of it and will prolly keep it for a while. Low 10's with the A/C on ain't too shabby, BUT there isn't nearly the character or fun factor that my Chevelle has.(or will have) It is simply two different worlds, both great in their own ways for sure, but me being old school, there is just nothing like rowing a shifter behind a good ole big block. By the time I'm done with the Chevelle, correction- by the time it's driveable again, I will have done about 60% of the work and have a metric ton of bucks into it, but it will return it to me 10 fold. I haven't been so psyched about a car in a long ass time.