6.0 LS Build

[pro86tourn]

Hi guys,

I have been MIA for some time as my project was placed on hold for a number of reasons which has lead me to now needing to get the car back on the road to enjoy once again! The car has been stored and hasnt seen sun light since 2013!

I found a 2004 Denali with 387000km but the truck runs GREAT, no knocks, no oil burning and pulls hard. (transmission even shifts great)

I can get the truck for less than $1000 complete, pull the engine etc. scrap the truck and even sell the rims and brand new tires/transmission to recoup costs while using the engine.

I am looking to have a good solid performer the car is a 1987 Monte Carlo SS with a 5 speed (I would like to find a t-56). I would like to keep the car carbed to save on costs and reduce headaches.

I know there is a million ways to build this engine but I am looking for suggestions from the great minds on this website to chime in and help developing a parts list to make some good bang for buck HP/TQ.

[andrewb70]

The first thing to ask is what is your budget and how much HP (realistically) do you want to make?

Andrew

[pro86tourn]

I would like to keep the budget to as limited as possible without compromising the use of quality parts/reliability. I would be happy with 450+ HP would be nice to get over the 500 mark but the car will be only street driven for now.

[andrewb70]

I would like to keep the budget to as limited as possible without compromising the use of quality parts/reliability. I would be happy with 450+ HP would be nice to get over the 500 mark but the car will be only street driven for now.

Cheap....fast....reliable....pick two...LOL

If it is running well, I would be tempted to just put in a new oil pump and cam and let her eat...I would also reconsider going with a carb. One of the great benefits of the LS engines is the excellent EFI. You already have the ECU/TAC/pedal. Just order a standalone harness from a reputable vendor and make it EFI. For a 87 Monte, you can use a stock GN tank with a simple pump upgrade. A DW200 will be plenty. Walbro 255 is good too, but I have found them to be loud.

Andrew

[pro86tourn]

Cheap....fast....reliable....pick two...LOL

If it is running well, I would be tempted to just put in a new oil pump and cam and let her eat...I would also reconsider going with a carb. One of the great benefits of the LS engines is the excellent EFI. You already have the ECU/TAC/pedal. Just order a standalone harness from a reputable vendor and make it EFI. For a 87 Monte, you can use a stock GN tank with a simple pump upgrade. A DW200 will be plenty. Walbro 255 is good too, but I have found them to be loud.


Andrew

Hahaha yes well. I dont want to say I have an endless budget I have a 2017 gt350 I use for track day fun but I want to get the monte back on the road! I would say 2500-3500 to spend on the engine would be great. FI makes me nervous is the setup quite easy in terms of wiring but certainly better MPG.

I am open to all advice very excited for getting this project back underway!

[andrewb70]

Hahaha yes well. I dont want to say I have an endless budget I have a 2017 gt350 I use for track day fun but I want to get the monte back on the road! I would say 2500-3500 to spend on the engine would be great. FI makes me nervous is the setup quite easy in terms of wiring but certainly better MPG.

I am open to all advice very excited for getting this project back underway!

The hook up for a standalone harness is pretty simple. Generally you need to connect constant power, switched power, ground, and connect the flue pump relay to the in-tank pump. That's about it.

In addition to a new oil pump and upgraded cam, you should add springs and pushrods and a new LS2 style timing chain. If you want to get crazy, then new lifters are a good idea, but that requires head removal, in which case you will need new head bolts and new head gaskets.

Andrew

[pro86tourn]

The hook up for a standalone harness is pretty simple. Generally you need to connect constant power, switched power, ground, and connect the flue pump relay to the in-tank pump. That's about it.

In addition to a new oil pump and upgraded cam, you should add springs and pushrods and a new LS2 style timing chain. If you want to get crazy, then new lifters are a good idea, but that requires head removal, in which case you will need new head bolts and new head gaskets.

Andrew

Seems easy enough, no need to swap injectors? or intake? I was worried about the ease of tuning or if I could get away with avoiding costly dyno time. Any recommendations on a quality harness?

Thanks again

[andrewb70]

Seems easy enough, no need to swap injectors? or intake? I was worried about the ease of tuning or if I could get away with avoiding costly dyno time. Any recommendations on a quality harness?

Thanks again

When you consider the cost of having someone else do the tuning, then it starts to make sense to get a system that is easily tuned yourself. I would consider the Holley HP system. Learn how to tune and never be a slave to some tuning "expert."

At this point it would be worthwhile to switch to a nicer looking LS2 intake and a 4 bolt cable throttle body.

Andrew

[pro86tourn]

Still fighting with the decision of FI/Carbed. FI route certainly seems to cost more.. can anyone chime in as far as rough MPG differences with the two setups?

The car will be driven less than 2-3000 km a season

[andrewb70]

The EFI is not just for mileage...it offers much better driveability.

Andrew

[badazz81z28]

The EFI is not just for mileage...it offers much better driveability.

Andrew

Oh yes...I remember those carb days...Cold morning in New Mexico...my 78 Camaro would fire right up. A few minutes later I would pull out of the drive way and at the nearest stop sign coming to a stop...Dies....start it back it back up, get on the gas and it bogs slightly...
When I bought my 70, I had to feather the gas pedal every time I came to a stop! When it warmed up it was great, but still....

I will never use a carb again. The drivability and reliability are enough to spend the money on it. I know dyno tuning can be expensive, but its also fun. Think of it as paying to have fun and seeing how much HP it has with the tuning piece being a bonus. I had my car tuned at DynoJet here in town for only $500. With my 78 Camaro...I paid that much for a headache of a new Demon Carb.

[badazz81z28]

Hahaha yes well. I dont want to say I have an endless budget I have a 2017 gt350 I use for track day fun but I want to get the monte back on the road! I would say 2500-3500 to spend on the engine would be great. FI makes me nervous is the setup quite easy in terms of wiring but certainly better MPG.

I am open to all advice very excited for getting this project back underway!

It only seems intimidating if you haven't done it. Its quite easier than you think it is (the computer does all the work). If I can do it...anyone can. I grew up with absolutely no auto mechanic background and everything I have done to my car was learned by reading these post on the forums and my Haynes manual. Go fuel injection, you won't regret it.

[pro86tourn]

It only seems intimidating if you haven't done it. Its quite easier than you think it is (the computer does all the work). If I can do it...anyone can. I grew up with absolutely no auto mechanic background and everything I have done to my car was learned by reading these post on the forums and my Haynes manual. Go fuel injection, you won't regret it.

I built my last engine the 327 from ground up when i was 16, i did the manual transmission install from auto when i was 19, I am very mechanically inclined but when It comes to tuning... thats a whole new world! LOL

but... I guess the way to go is keeping the car FI i certainly thought going the carbed route would be the fasted cheapest way to get the car back on the road. Would it be easiest to find a GN fuel tank or just utilize the stock tank and add an external pump? My goal would be to make 450+ HP NA, I just want a fun car to take out like old times and have the pro touring look with better handling/breaking and a nice sounding engine for weekend rides.

Is it possible to utilize the stock harness/ecu from the truck? or is it much easer to purchase one from a vendor? id hate to spend over $1000 just on wiring (but it is what it is)

My thoughts were either freshen up the bottom end adding new bearings, rings then having the heads decked, new valves installed and springs with cam/intake but I will save money where i can.

Total goal is to have the car driving again for $3500 or less! Any parts ideas would be awesome and I will add pictures once i start the process!

Thanks again guys!

[AU Doc]

So I can (almost) never resist being the devil's advocate. While I am firmly in the EFI camp, and it would be hard to go back to a carb, I think you are correct that a carb would be a quicker, simpler, and likely cheaper way to get the motor running.

LS swaps aren't as simple as they're made out to be, or at least they're not if you're on a budget and it's your first time. You can do them with junkyard parts, but you're going to be exchanging a lot of time to do it. I suppose in this case the time and money savings would come down to the fuel system (I don't know what the factory fuel pressure is for that car), wiring harness, ECM, and tuning. You'll burn through half your budget for a self-tuning EFI. It's a GREAT investment! But it's also not cheap.

A carburetor will run perfectly fine if it's well maintained, and you stay on top of the adjustments. EFI is more of a set it once and forget it sort of deal and it runs the same if it's 5 degrees or 105 degrees.

It sounds like it's really going to come down to what your priorities are. I think you'll be leaving quite a bit on the table in terms of drive ability and ease of maintenance if you switch to a carb, but I think you'll be up and driving sooner and cheaper if you do swap to a carb. Going EFI is more of a hassle in the short term, but definitely has advantages once you've done the swap.

[pro86tourn]

So I can (almost) never resist being the devil's advocate. While I am firmly in the EFI camp, and it would be hard to go back to a carb, I think you are correct that a carb would be a quicker, simpler, and likely cheaper way to get the motor running.

LS swaps aren't as simple as they're made out to be, or at least they're not if you're on a budget and it's your first time. You can do them with junkyard parts, but you're going to be exchanging a lot of time to do it. I suppose in this case the time and money savings would come down to the fuel system (I don't know what the factory fuel pressure is for that car), wiring harness, ECM, and tuning. You'll burn through half your budget for a self-tuning EFI. It's a GREAT investment! But it's also not cheap.

A carburetor will run perfectly fine if it's well maintained, and you stay on top of the adjustments. EFI is more of a set it once and forget it sort of deal and it runs the same if it's 5 degrees or 105 degrees.

It sounds like it's really going to come down to what your priorities are. I think you'll be leaving quite a bit on the table in terms of drive ability and ease of maintenance if you switch to a carb, but I think you'll be up and driving sooner and cheaper if you do swap to a carb. Going EFI is more of a hassle in the short term, but definitely has advantages once you've done the swap.

These were my thoughts exactly! I know it may sound crazy but part of the reason i love the old school cars is the theater, the messing around and not perfect reliability. I like waiting for the car to warm up, pumping the gas prior to start up.. smelling raw gas. I know it wont be maintenance free, I know there will be headaches but its all part of the theater and love for the classic car with the modern touch. I have my GT350 purpose built for track days and i run 8500rpm all day long on road courses with the AC on and drive it home at night.... I dont want two of the same cars, I want to make good power, cheap as possible BUT I will not sacrifice quality of parts.

My goal is 450-500+ Crank HP staying NA ...although many people are pushing to towards EFI ... i am certainly hesitant. (Remember the car hasnt seen day light since 2013, I am just trying to get her back on the road for some fun drives!)

[andrewb70]

With a carb you will need a carb intake and ignition box.

Andrew

[AU Doc]

You remind me of a close friend that I suspect will scramble to buy the last carburetor ever produced, and for many of the same reasons you mention :-)

It's your car, so build it the way you'll get the most enjoyment out of it!

[pro86tourn]

You remind me of a close friend that I suspect will scramble to buy the last carburetor ever produced, and for many of the same reasons you mention :-)

It's your car, so build it the way you'll get the most enjoyment out of it!

Thats funny! Any recommendations on parts lists I should look into? Anyone have a setup they built and had good success with?

[btmatt]

my first Camaro LS sounds lots like what you want to build:
1. junkyard LQ9
2. Ported 243 heads
3. Comp 234/[email protected], .602/.605 lift and associated valvetrain;
4. MSD box (Gen 3);
5. Edelbrock Victor Jr. and Holley HP 750 carb;

the motor was bolted to tremec magnum, 3.50 rear and 27" tall rear tire. The motor ran very hard and had an awesome idle. Butt dyno told me the combo was somewhere between 450-500 crank. We took it to the dyno and blew it up before we made a complete pull.

Instead of rebuilding, we bought LS3 and installed a TSP stage 4 cam and put in the car. I still have all my old combo stuff if you are interested. Matt

[KnightmareZ]

Either or, don't forget oil pan, motor mounts, oil pump, drive shaft, front accessories, gauges, headers, exhaust etc
AKA $3500 comes real quick