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    Results 21 to 32 of 32
    1. #21
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      I may finally be getting somewhere. Suddenly a half dozen avenues opened up to get where I want, waiting for information to come back on it. Either I'll have a guy set up or I'll be calling Musclerodz. Trying to avoid that mainly because the other shops I'm talking to are not far away, whereas Musclerodz is 2 hours away. Worse comes to worse though...


      Quote Originally Posted by F-Body International View Post
      Unless you have the money and skill to install a link suspension, I would concentrate on good shocks for your stock suspension and a good wheel/tire combo.
      What an odd thing to post on a site such as this.

    2. #22
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      I hate to say this, but I think I will have to give up on the offset 3 link rear I wanted. Main reason? I can't find anyone willing to take on the job. I've talked to dozens of builders in my area, going as far as 200 miles out. We get to the quote-writing stage, and I never hear from them again. If I call, they're too busy to get a quote right now but they'll call me next week, and after that I usually only ever get voicemail and no callbacks.

      No matter. Obviously the universe has decided that me having a Dodge Dakota with an offset 3-link rear suspension is a bad idea and isn't letting it happen. As one who is in tune with the universe, even if I have to be dragged into being in tune, I can no longer ignore this. I'm giving up on the 3-link. Perhaps if I could weld it would be a different story, but the outlay needed to do one vehicle (I don't ever plan to do a project this large again) is too much to get myself to the point where I can do it. But I'm not bitter (much) about it. One door is closed, another opens. So, new plan - I've been looking at torque arms and IRS setups.

      To rehash, the project is a 2003 Dakota ext cab, 2WD, currently weighs in at 4000lbs with a full tank of fuel, with a surprising 57 rear/43 front weight distribution. If I recall, it was 2300lbs front axle, 1700lbs rear axle. Truck use - Weekend toy, occasional drag strip, occasional run at a local pro-touring track, might compete for fun but not as a serious thing. Truck may occasionally tow as much as 3000lbs or carry a load in the bed, but I never drive in a spirited manner when loaded. When finished, the truck will have a built 427, possibly turbocharged, auto trans, expecting 700 to 800HP, 700 to 800 torque at the crank. And when I'm finished, this is the truck I plan to drive to my grave, so I want it to be my perfect truck.

      IRS - I found an IRS adapter setup that would require that I have someone weld a back-half into my truck and that I can easily get done. It would allow me to use a C5/C6 Corvette rear suspension, and I've worked this one out to the last detail for installing. My main concern with this is the truck will weigh in at about 4000lbs, Corvettes come in at 3000lbs, so I'm not too sure how well the IRS would handle the extra weight especially since the truck will be expected to occasionally tow a trailer (max 3000lbs) or carry a load while Corvettes aren't supposed to tow anything and the only way a Corvette's getting 3000lbs in it's trunk is if you poured it full of lead. I've yet to look into whether I can adapt a Charger/Challenger IRS, which would be able to handle the weight as they come in at 3900 to 4200lbs curb weight.

      Torque arm - From what I've seen on these, if I order the rear axle assembly (and either way I will be putting a new performance rear axle assembly in) with the appropriate mounts for a torque arm, the rest would be bolt-in. I've been doing a lot of reading on these and they look like they'll do the same job I wanted the offset 3-link to do, and I've read all sorts of technical information on how they work, but even on the sites that sell torque arms I'm not finding anything on how to determine exactly what I'd need in the way of parts. Like, does it automatically bolt to the transmission cross member (not doing one that bolts directly to the transmission) or can it bolt in front of or behind? How does one determine where it bolts to? I'm assuming that the side bars have to bolt to one side of the frame, but not sure how to determine exactly where on the frame it would go. It also looks like a Watts link is the way to go for locating the axle, and I don't think I'll have an exhaust issue since it's a truck and there's tons of room under there compared to cars that run these. I'm not concerned with weight or towing with this one, as they're used on quite a few different cars with varying weights and towing capacities.

      So - my new questions for the giant brain here are, which of these two suspensions would be best for the intended use? On the IRS I've already worked out exactly what I need to do to get one installed, but on the torque arm I've only determined that it would work for what I want, but not how to go about selecting parts. Thanks, appreciate any advice that doesn't involve keeping the leaf springs.

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      I would take a good look at this IRS:

      http://nolimit.net/products#!/I-R-S-...tegory=6157546

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      I would take a good look at this IRS:

      http://nolimit.net/products#!/I-R-S-...tegory=6157546

      Don
      Pricey, but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Vimes View Post
      Pricey, but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.
      How much do you think the Dobbertin setup all done will cost?

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Michigan
      Posts
      322
      Country Flag: United States
      As a chronic over-analyzer myself, I think you may be over thinking this. Some people enjoy the planning stage of the project the most. If that's you, disregard what I'm about to say and keep exploring options.

      On the other hand, if your goal is to get the truck on the road so you can start driving it, I think you should keep it simple, especially if you're trying to keep cost under control. Here's my .02:

      The leaf spring idea isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I recently ran some tests on 4 different new full size trucks back to back. Only the Rams have coils (4 link + panhard bar); everyone else still uses leaf springs. If the trucks are similarly configured, there is very little difference in ride comfort between the brands. Bottom line is that it's more about development and setup than choosing the "best" architecture. Granted none of these trucks had 800 HP, but there's only so much traction to be had...

      Regarding 4-link vs 3-link vs torque arm, it's all about what packages the best to get you your desired kinematic properties (instant center, roll center, etc). If the kinematics are the same, the number of links doesn't really matter.

      IRS has the most potential for ride comfort, but it's also the most expensive, most complicated, least durable, etc. To get it to hold up to 800 HP and towing it would be super heavy, and you'll have a hard time finding something narrow enough for your truck.

      If it were me, I'd stick to a straight axle for sure. You're going to have to accept some compromise somewhere - you're literally trying to do everything. No vehicle ever designed has been good at drag racing, autocross, track days, towing, ride comfort, and cost effectiveness
      - Ryan

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      How much do you think the Dobbertin setup all done will cost?

      Don
      A few thousand less. But I don't think it's going to work for me anyway.

      Quote Originally Posted by stab6902 View Post
      As a chronic over-analyzer myself, I think you may be over thinking this. Some people enjoy the planning stage of the project the most. If that's you, disregard what I'm about to say and keep exploring options.

      On the other hand, if your goal is to get the truck on the road so you can start driving it, I think you should keep it simple, especially if you're trying to keep cost under control. Here's my .02:

      The leaf spring idea isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I recently ran some tests on 4 different new full size trucks back to back. Only the Rams have coils (4 link + panhard bar); everyone else still uses leaf springs. If the trucks are similarly configured, there is very little difference in ride comfort between the brands. Bottom line is that it's more about development and setup than choosing the "best" architecture. Granted none of these trucks had 800 HP, but there's only so much traction to be had...

      Regarding 4-link vs 3-link vs torque arm, it's all about what packages the best to get you your desired kinematic properties (instant center, roll center, etc). If the kinematics are the same, the number of links doesn't really matter.

      IRS has the most potential for ride comfort, but it's also the most expensive, most complicated, least durable, etc. To get it to hold up to 800 HP and towing it would be super heavy, and you'll have a hard time finding something narrow enough for your truck.

      If it were me, I'd stick to a straight axle for sure. You're going to have to accept some compromise somewhere - you're literally trying to do everything. No vehicle ever designed has been good at drag racing, autocross, track days, towing, ride comfort, and cost effectiveness
      I've never liked leaf spring suspensions, and my favorite handling cars have had offset 4-link (Chevelle) rear suspensions, but they too have their problems. I'd settled on the 3 link, but since I can't install it myself and can't find anyone who will, the torque arm is what I'm going to go for next. With that one I can do most of the work myself, and will just need to get the shock towers welded in. I continued to research after I posted and had already talked myself out of the IRS, at least for this project. If I can get a 3 link in I will, but if not I'm thinking torque arm now. Looking for a supplier now.

      On compromising, I'm willing to give up track performance. Standing up to the engine, street handling and ride comfort are my main goals. If it does reasonably well at the track that will be good too, but I'm not expecting competition level performance here. If I decide I want to compete, I'll build something different. My truck is really too large and too heavy to be a competition vehicle.

      Whether I take anyone's advice or not, I do appreciate it being offered, and I give it serious consideration.

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      Can't believe what a friggin' nightmare this project has been, but finally there's light at the end of the tunnel. Have a shop that gave me a quote on the work I need done, and a projected start time - April 2021, check back once a month for updates to the start time. The shop I'm using has a pretty good reputation, and the work I've seen is excellent. But I'm not saying a WORD about who or where it is until after my truck's done, because after trying and failing to get a shop to commit for OVER TWO YEARS I'm not driving ANY work his way that might push my project back! I'll be glad to detail it afterwards though. I'm going to let this thread slide into obscurity and just start a new thread on the Projects page.

      Really wish I could have found a shop to commit when I started though. If I had, my dad might have at least gotten a ride in my truck with its new drivetrain even if the project itself wasn't completed.

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Nov 2020
      Location
      AB Canada
      Posts
      15
      Country Flag: Canada
      Just throwing this out there, have you considered a bus driver's seat for your wife? They have built in shock absorbers in the bottom. Not sure how it would work out with head room, or if you could provide a lower secondary floor, but figured it was an outside the box possibility.

      T

    10. #30
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by TEntem View Post
      Just throwing this out there, have you considered a bus driver's seat for your wife? They have built in shock absorbers in the bottom. Not sure how it would work out with head room, or if you could provide a lower secondary floor, but figured it was an outside the box possibility.

      T
      Thanks for the suggestion, but those seats won't work. I actually have considered those as well as 18-wheeler seats before but they're just way too big. The base that has all the absorbing parts is about a foot tall, then the seat is on top of that. What I'm going to use is a set of off-roading suspension seats, these in particular. Suspension seats let people take 100MPH jumps off sand dunes without jamming their spines through their skulls, so they should do an excellent job with street duty as it won't be off-roaded. I sat in one of these at a dealer's shop and they are super comfortable, plus this set reclines unlike actual off-roading seats.

      Typical bus drivers seat:

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Jul 2017
      Location
      Island Lake, IL
      Posts
      131
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by itionted View Post
      (spammer link removed) Bilstein Shocks are a good choice.
      This thread is from last year. Also, it was mentioned to concentrate on good shocks/tires previously but OP was fixated on engineering a whole new suspension system.
      Last edited by derekf; 07-12-2021 at 08:26 AM.

    12. #32
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Posts
      642
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Jonathonar89 View Post
      This thread is from last year. Also, it was mentioned to concentrate on good shocks/tires previously but OP was fixated on engineering a whole new suspension system.
      Still am. I'm in line at a shop to have it done now, but the shop is backed up and I don't actually have a dropoff date. The truck is almost ready to go, and could actually go today if the shop calls.



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