Experienced Opinions on CPP 2nd Gen Spindles??

[79T/Aman]

You can do as you please, but correct me if I'm wrong.
- I don't see C7 SKF hubs on Rockauto at all, I see AC delco for $89, MOOG for $156, CPP gets over $200 ...link?
- Others have asked , do you not want to improve the geometry? cpp spindles are stock height.
- Is the only reason you want sealed hubs is to not have to pack bearings? if so then get them, make a decisions, on this board we tend to want to improve things, not wanting to pack bearings is not one of them and there are ZERO mechanical benefits to sealed hubs VS serviceable bearings and the fact remains that sealed hubs were made for cars with NEGATIVE scub not positive as older cars have.
It seems that all your worry are about strength of the spindle but are not looking at the big picture and as I've said in another post the spindle is not the issue.
So as I said you are free to do as you see fit.

[Blue66]

You can do as you please, but correct me if I'm wrong.
- I don't see C7 SKF hubs on Rockauto at all, I see AC delco for $89, MOOG for $156, CPP gets over $200 ...link?
- Others have asked , do you not want to improve the geometry? cpp spindles are stock height.
- Is the only reason you want sealed hubs is to not have to pack bearings? if so then get them, make a decisions, on this board we tend to want to improve things, not wanting to pack bearings is not one of them and there are ZERO mechanical benefits to sealed hubs VS serviceable bearings and the fact remains that sealed hubs were made for cars with NEGATIVE scub not positive as older cars have.
It seems that all your worry are about strength of the spindle but are not looking at the big picture and as I've said in another post the spindle is not the issue.
So as I said you are free to do as you see fit.

Geometry is important and the reason for doing all this, ( and C6 brakes ) but strength is indeed #1 to me. A broken spindle is no joke. What part of the geometry is improved with tall ball joints that is not with the spindle? I was offered a 0.9" tall ball joint for a stock spindle so what would be the difference between that and a new cast spindle that is 1" taller? Same overall height, same steer arms and mounts. Identical geometry it sounds to me. Im not being a smart @ss I am asking because I do not know but would like to know.


- ACDelco hubs off RockAuto for the C7 are an SKF unit. Part number FW412 as referenced by a friend I have at a GM dealer. He said little people know this and over pay. I have two ACDelco FW412s at my house and seen with my own eyes the stamp cast right on the hub, "SKF" I'll take a pic tonight and load them.

- Also the 30013 CPP spindle IS NOT stock height. I live 20 minutes from summit racing and put a tape measure on the CPP 30013 and my stock spindle. The CPP is exactly 1" taller from ball joint to ball joint but maintains stock height.

[79T/Aman]

I personalty never seen the early F/A body spindle so I was not sure, but did a little research before answering and this is what I had found...should have known better from Summit

:Is this a tall spindle or stock 7.75" height?

Asked by JOHAN on December 20, 2017
A: Thank you for your question. These spindles are stock height. The physical measurement is not listed.
Summit Racing Answer - December 21, 2017

[79T/Aman]

So it just seems to me that your path is clear, it boils down to what you want to spend, the Speed Tech will offer you a wider range of steering improvements and lighter weight.

[Blue66]

I personalty never seen the early F/A body spindle so I was not sure, but did a little research before answering and this is what I had found...should have known better from Summit

:Is this a tall spindle or stock 7.75" height?

Asked by JOHAN on December 20, 2017
A: Thank you for your question. These spindles are stock height. The physical measurement is not listed.
Summit Racing Answer - December 21, 2017

Yes sir this is wrong. I put a tape measure on the CPP 30013 myself and the stock unit and am 100% sure the CPP unit is exactly 1" taller than stock. I live 20 minutes from the Tallmadge Ohio Summit Racing retail location. Which by the way the retail guys are not much better. I go in there with my own part numbers anymore because I have had so many returns. Hell it is that way with Autozones and O'reillys too which is why I turn to Rockauto anymore...

As far as the lightweight aspect goes I would rather lose 10lbs off my belly than spend $1,400 to save it.. I don't even think going to aluminum heads from rebuilt irons set me back that much.. My steering is very predictable now with my stock height spindle and Jeep gearbox, would I be correct in saying that adding a taller upper ball joint or this taller spindle would not affect my current steering geometry? When put side by side the CPP unit and stock unit mount the steering arms the exact same way.

[1966socalgoat]

I have CPP spindles on my 66 GTO, no issues with them at all, i did purchase hubs separately but cant remember from who. I do not trust aluminum in this application, i actually prefer the cast iron and to be honest casting iron is a pretty low tech process anyway.

[David Pozzi]

You can do as you please, but correct me if I'm wrong.
- I don't see C7 SKF hubs on Rockauto at all, I see AC delco for $89, MOOG for $156, CPP gets over $200 ...link?
- Others have asked , do you not want to improve the geometry? cpp spindles are stock height.
- Is the only reason you want sealed hubs is to not have to pack bearings? if so then get them, make a decisions, on this board we tend to want to improve things, not wanting to pack bearings is not one of them and there are ZERO mechanical benefits to sealed hubs VS serviceable bearings and the fact remains that sealed hubs were made for cars with NEGATIVE scub not positive as older cars have.
It seems that all your worry are about strength of the spindle but are not looking at the big picture and as I've said in another post the spindle is not the issue.
So as I said you are free to do as you see fit.

I disagree very strongly that the C7 hubs are not better than regular Camaro spindles!
I'm old school and used to think I wanted a serviceable/packable bearing set. After working with James Shipka on the One Lap Camaro I could see the benefits of the Speed Tech spindles and Corvette unit bearings. My wife's 73 Camaro had terrible brake knock back problems (manual) after installing 14" rotors with six piston fixed calipers. First we installed a Baer full floater rear axle, which reduced knock back about half. Next we tried the CPP spindles with The GMR hubs which were not very good because they were Corvette type hubs but with tapered roller bearings inside and they always had play/flex resulting in knock back. The next year we changed the front subframe to an Art Morrison with Corvette C6 spindles and hubs. The brakes were great after that! I would not run big brakes on a tapered bearing spindle or non-floater rear axle ever again, unless the bearings were huge, like NASCAR huge.

At SEMA a few years ago I stopped by the Timken bearing booth. Saw cutaways of the Corvette and Camaro unit bearings and heard the reasons why they are better as far as stiffness goes. I can explain further if anyone is interested.

[79T/Aman]

I disagree very strongly that the C7 hubs are not better than regular Camaro spindles!
I'm old school and used to think I wanted a serviceable/packable bearing set. After working with James Shipka on the One Lap Camaro I could see the benefits of the Speed Tech spindles and Corvette unit bearings. My wife's 73 Camaro had terrible brake knock back problems (manual) after installing 14" rotors with six piston fixed calipers. First we installed a Baer full floater rear axle, which reduced knock back about half. Next we tried the CPP spindles with The GMR hubs which were not very good because they were Corvette type hubs but with tapered roller bearings inside and they always had play/flex resulting in knock back. The next year we changed the front subframe to an Art Morrison with Corvette C6 spindles and hubs. The brakes were great after that! I would not run big brakes on a tapered bearing spindle or non-floater rear axle ever again, unless the bearings were huge, like NASCAR huge.

At SEMA a few years ago I stopped by the Timken bearing booth. Saw cutaways of the Corvette and Camaro unit bearings and heard the reasons why they are better as far as stiffness goes. I can explain further if anyone is interested.

I think it is important to take into account the layout of the front suspension, the difference between Mary's stock frame with cpp spindles and the AM frame is scrub radius and how the bearings are loaded, are the wheel offset different between the stock frame and the AM?
My point is serviceable bearing spindles have a wider load bearing spacing than sealed hubs, making the bearing assembly more stable. there is no denying that advancements have been made in this area, were hubs failed on a regular basis there are now solutions, but for the average enthusiast on a budget sticking to tried and trued methods I feel is still prudent and advisable, wanting 14" brakes VS needing them is also something to think about, IMHO having iron 14" rotors becomes counter productive as the weight penalty and flywheel effect may not provide enough benefits to this community and how most of the cars are used, there are of course exceptions, it all boils down to needs, wants, budget, bragging rights and whether the car will ever be finished.

[CapSS92]

David Pozzi, I would like to hear the reasons why. Your stuff is always a good read and informative. Off topic, one of local guys here in town rode with your wife on a track at one of the Goodguys events and she proceeded to scare the crap outta him. Lucky *******. As for the spindles I run a set on my 65 Chevelle and I can attest to the height difference. I thought long and hard about making the sacrifice for the AFX but I just cannot afford the cost. I wish I could but I had to settle for room and board or the Chevelle. That being said, I have had zero issues with them. I had them powder coated due to them being cast raw but even the realignment was minimal. Bolted right in, over a thousand miles so far with no issues. I run a 13.5" rotor with C6 calipers and a 1" MC from a TrailBlazer and it stops great. I agree with not needing the 6 piston calipers and 14" rotor. I'm not racing it anywhere other than on the freeway and I had a hybrid 14" rotor with C5 caliper before and no one has been able to tell the difference between that and my current CPP 13.5"/C6 combo size wise. Attached below are two links that show the spindle height difference and a really great video from Suspension Geeks showing the benefits of taller spindles. Very informative.

Alex

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ndle-with-Gmod

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1837245289853346